Royals 2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread - Page 302

duncan_idaho · 10:01 AM

Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner
Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play
A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise.

Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk.

At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor.

Burning questions updates below.

Burning Questions for 2013:

1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation?

Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory.

2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door?
Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster.

3) Does Hosmer bounce back?
Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far.
4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012?
Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go.
5) Who regresses?
Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years.
6) Who plays 2B?
Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it.
7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level?
Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha
8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014?
Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014.
9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse?
Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before.
10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers?
Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it?

siberian khatru · 05-21-2013, 09:13 AM

As Mellinger says, Royals fans come by their skepticism honestly. Why should we give this franchise the benefit of the doubt?

But if you're looking for hope, consider that last year the Tigers were 6 games under .500 on June 8, and still a game under .500 on July 5. They were six games out of first on June 12.

Fansy the Famous Bard · 05-21-2013, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

As Mellinger says, Royals fans come by their skepticism honestly. Why should we give this franchise the benefit of the doubt?

But if you're looking for hope, consider that last year the Tigers were 6 games under .500 on June 8, and still a game under .500 on July 5. They were six games out of first on June 12.

That's all fine and dandy, but KC doesn't have an Austin Jackson Coming off the DL June 9th like Detroit did last year that will change things.

Nor do we have a Fielder\Cabrera in our lineup to help.

siberian khatru · 05-21-2013, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

That's all fine and dandy, but KC doesn't have an Austin Jackson Coming off the DL June 9th like Detroit did last year that will change things.

Nor do we have a Fielder\Cabrera in our lineup to help.

Gordon is filling the Cabrera role right now. Butler could be a reasonable Fielder facsimile (Fielder was 152 OPS+ last year, Billy was 140).

Austin Jackson is a fair point. I had forgotten he was on the DL for nearly a month last year. Although when he left, they were still just 18-19.

Obviously it's not a great match, but it wasn't supposed to be. Only that even good teams can struggle for long stretches. Are the 2013 Royals as good as the 2012 Tigers? I doubt it. Are they as bad as they've been the last two weeks? We'll see.

**ChiTown** · 05-21-2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

That's all fine and dandy, but KC doesn't have an Austin Jackson Coming off the DL June 9th like Detroit did last year that will change things.

Nor do we have a Fielder\Cabrera in our lineup to help.

Salient points.

We have Paulino and Duffy coming back at some point, but that does not help our punch-less offense. The sad thing is that there is NOTHING in our Minor League system that is even remotely close that could help our offense. That is monumentally ****ed up! Jesus, my messed up mind almost thinks Xavier Nady would be a better solution at 1B than Hos, because Hos lacks any sort of power. I think I'm going to go bleach my ****ing brain.

OmahaChief · 05-21-2013, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Ned Yost has to go. Teams reflect their coach and I know, I know, Yost is the best coach we have had in decades but that doesn't mean he is good.

This team doesn't hustle, constantly has their head up their ass instead of in the game and lacks consistency.

This goes for the lineup as well. Ned is constantly changing the lineup for whatever reasons. We aren't platooning RF but it sure looks like we are. Moose "is back" but not really.

Cain is rested one day, leading off the next, batting 5th the next.

Escobar who even Fever last night said looks to be mentally not ino it, needs a game off but nawwwww, we won't do that.

And this shit spiral we are in started when? When Shields was pulled in a 1-0 game instead of being allowed to pitch the 9th. We lost that game. Shields has since been allowed to go longer in situations where we were tied or losing but why keep him in if we are winning?

We all said Shields should have stayed in. This is your guy. This was your big trade. This is who is supposed to be a leader on this team and Ned pulled him instead of showing some balls. I think he lost the team to a degree with that move.

I mean, instead of sticking with your ace who had allowed 1 run in 8 innings, you went to a bullpen that has shown to be shaky at best since the 1st week of the season.

"Nervous Ned".......don't think that doesn't carry down to the team. A team will always reflect their coach in attitude if nothing else.

I agree. The pulling of Shields that game seems to have set off this death spiral. There is a reason that a playoff bound club fired Yost. They fired him after they lost 11 of 14....maybe we will have the same luck!

Mr. Laz · 05-21-2013, 09:59 AM

we have some talent now and have shown some signs of life. We should be able to attract some decent candidates for jobs.

Time for Yost and Moore to hit the bricks.

There is still something wrong with our development system. Why don't our young hitters have any plate discipline?

**ChiTown** · 05-21-2013, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

we have some talent now and have shown some signs of life. We should be able to attract some decent candidates for jobs.

Time for Yost and Moore to hit the bricks.

There is still something wrong with our development system. Why don't our young hitters have any plate discipline?

or power? It's like we have a team full of players afflicted with Muscular Dystrophy.

Mama Hip Rockets · 05-21-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siberian khatru

Today's fun stat: The Royals have more GIDPs (39) than they do HRs (27), the only AL team to do so, and by far (the Angels have one more HR than DP).

siberian khatru · 05-21-2013, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

There is still something wrong with our development system. Why don't our young hitters have any plate discipline?

The Royals as a team have never taken walks, going all the way back to the glory years. I think they've been above league average something like twice in the last 30 years, and often at the bottom.

I remember Bill James doing an essay on it in the late 80s, with an anecdote about Buddy Biancalana, on the DL, being a guest in the TV broadcast booth and talking about how it was frowned upon to take pitches during batting practice. Just get in there and take your hacks.

It must be in the franchise DNA. Ancient Indian burial ground under the K or something.

duncan_idaho · 05-21-2013, 10:36 AM

Next two games are crucial. Need to come out of this week at least 3 games above .500.

Win the next two against the Astros and build some momentum going into the weekend series with the Angels, and last night is a blip. Still, they really should have won that game ... let a trash pitcher off the hook too many times.

Moves I would like to see:
1) DFA Getz
2) DFA JC Gutierrez
3) Call up Johnny Giavotella
4) Call up Louis Coleman
5a) Demote Mike Moustakas (or DFA Jeff Francoeur)
5b) Call up Anthony Seratelli

Use Cain to leadoff until Jarrod Dyson returns unless he's sitting. If he sits, and Lough is playing, use Lough in the leadoff spot.

Eric Hosmer to the two. He's not hitting for any power (though his 2B last night raised his SLG above his OBP, finally), but he's getting on base at a decent rate and at least making pitchers work a bit (most of the time).

Leave Gordon in the 3 and Butler in the 4.

Move Sal Perez up to the 5 spot. He has to produce out of that spot.

Hit Escobar 9th. It's his correct lineup role.

6-7-8 are filled by the combination of 3B, RF and 2B, in some sort of platoon role until Dyson is healthy and until or unless Moustakas starts hitting like a starter.

Once Dyson returns:

Dyson
Cain
Gordon (he and Hos hit enough against lefties that L-L-L should not matter)
Butler
Hosmer
Perez
3B
RF
2B
Escobar

As for Dayton Moore, he's going to be on the hot seat unless this team bounces back and finishes over .500 with at least a sniff of the wildcard. (Still plenty of time for that).

The minor league system has just not translated at all spots. Using Myers/Odorizzi/Montgomery to get legitimate front-rotation pitching is a valid use of the farm system. The struggles of Hosmer and Moustakas - and the injuries to the other first-wave SP propsects (Lamb and Duffy) have really devastated the ability for the farm system to make an impact on the major league roster.

The bullpen has a lot of draft/developed guys, but that's not good enough.

Now... if Ventura continues to murder the minor leagues like he has been (he's on pace to be a top 40 prospect right now, and he would easily be top 15 if he was bigger), and Duffy comes back strong out of the gate (two things I think WILL happen), things probably look a little rosier for Moore's farm system.

Ultimately, his farm system rises and falls with Hosmer and Moustakas, though. IF those two are not at least solid MLB guys by the end of the year, it's going to be hard for Moore to get extended beyond his current contract unless Ventura, Duffy and Zimmer save his bacon.

**ChiTown** · 05-21-2013, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Next two games are crucial. Need to come out of this week at least 3 games above .500.

Win the next two against the Astros and build some momentum going into the weekend series with the Angels, and last night is a blip. Still, they really should have won that game ... let a trash pitcher off the hook too many times.

Moves I would like to see:
1) DFA Getz
2) DFA JC Gutierrez
3) Call up Johnny Giavotella
4) Call up Louis Coleman
5a) Demote Mike Moustakas (or DFA Jeff Francoeur)
5b) Call up Anthony Seratelli

Use Cain to leadoff until Jarrod Dyson returns unless he's sitting. If he sits, and Lough is playing, use Lough in the leadoff spot.

Eric Hosmer to the two. He's not hitting for any power (though his 2B last night raised his SLG above his OBP, finally), but he's getting on base at a decent rate and at least making pitchers work a bit (most of the time).

Leave Gordon in the 3 and Butler in the 4.

Move Sal Perez up to the 5 spot. He has to produce out of that spot.

Hit Escobar 9th. It's his correct lineup role.

6-7-8 are filled by the combination of 3B, RF and 2B, in some sort of platoon role until Dyson is healthy and until or unless Moustakas starts hitting like a starter.

Once Dyson returns:

Dyson
Cain
Gordon (he and Hos hit enough against lefties that L-L-L should not matter)
Butler
Hosmer
Perez
3B
RF
2B
Escobar

As for Dayton Moore, he's going to be on the hot seat unless this team bounces back and finishes over .500 with at least a sniff of the wildcard. (Still plenty of time for that).

The minor league system has just not translated at all spots. Using Myers/Odorizzi/Montgomery to get legitimate front-rotation pitching is a valid use of the farm system. The struggles of Hosmer and Moustakas - and the injuries to the other first-wave SP propsects (Lamb and Duffy) have really devastated the ability for the farm system to make an impact on the major league roster.

The bullpen has a lot of draft/developed guys, but that's not good enough.

Now... if Ventura continues to murder the minor leagues like he has been (he's on pace to be a top 40 prospect right now, and he would easily be top 15 if he was bigger), and Duffy comes back strong out of the gate (two things I think WILL happen), things probably look a little rosier for Moore's farm system.

Ultimately, his farm system rises and falls with Hosmer and Moustakas, though. IF those two are not at least solid MLB guys by the end of the year, it's going to be hard for Moore to get extended beyond his current contract unless Ventura, Duffy and Zimmer save his bacon.

Ceej · 05-21-2013, 10:43 AM

Guys, don't worry BP Davis is on the bump tonight with a short porch in left field.

We got this!

duncan_idaho · 05-21-2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Laz

we have some talent now and have shown some signs of life. We should be able to attract some decent candidates for jobs.

Time for Yost and Moore to hit the bricks.

There is still something wrong with our development system. Why don't our young hitters have any plate discipline?

Because it's not really something you can teach. Players are either pre-disposed to plate discipline, or they're not.

Small improvements are possible, but you can't take a guy with NO strike zone judgment and turn him into somebody with great strike zone judgment.

Moore is a very old school scout, and so are most of the people in his org. Those type of scouts tend to look at tangible physical tools when scouting hitters and don't pay as much attention to things like plate discipline, which is less tangible and takes longer to scout (that's one reason why extreme moneyball teams like college players - there's much more data on plate discipline at that point).

duncan_idaho · 05-21-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

Salient points.

We have Paulino and Duffy coming back at some point, but that does not help our punch-less offense. The sad thing is that there is NOTHING in our Minor League system that is even remotely close that could help our offense. That is monumentally ****ed up! Jesus, my messed up mind almost thinks Xavier Nady would be a better solution at 1B than Hos, because Hos lacks any sort of power. I think I'm going to go bleach my ****ing brain.

Johnn Giavotella and Seratelli both offer at least the chance at more offense than Chris Getz (for sure), Jeff Francoeur (can't be worse) slumping Mike Moustakas and possibly even Elliott Johnson.

In all likelihood, though, they will need to get creative and make a trade to help the offense.

**ChiTown** · 05-21-2013, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Johnn Giavotella and Seratelli both offer at least the chance at more offense than Chris Getz (for sure), Jeff Francoeur (can't be worse) slumping Mike Moustakas and possibly even Elliott Johnson.

In all likelihood, though, they will need to get creative and make a trade to help the offense.

AAAA Players.

12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $-1889692	2013 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread Proposed 2013 Slogan: Tigers: They're what's for dinner Actual 2013 Slogan: Come to Play A better, more accurate, or alternative slogan: All in, no panic, we promise. Dayton Moore has pushed all his chips in and is riding on King/Jack suited, hoping it comes together, he gets some good luck, and he hits the nuts by the river card. There's potential, oh yes, there's potential. There's also risk. At the midway point, Dayton is left counting on the river card. The flop and turn didn't help him, and he's looking at the Tigers holding a pair of Queens and the Indians holding a pair of 9s. His 2013 plan hasn't failed - yet - but the odds are not in his favor. Burning questions updates below. Burning Questions for 2013: 1) Will the improve rotation be improved enough? Does James Shields pitch like a fringe No. 1 away from Tampa Bay? Does Ervin Santana pitch to his highest upside in his walk year? Can Jeremy Guthrie build on his strong performance as a Royal in 2012? Can Wade Davis bring his new mentality- and velocity - back to the rotation? Midseason check-in: Yes, the rotation is certainly improved enough. Shields has pitched like a fringe No. 1 and Santana is having his best season. Guthrie has horrible peripherals but has continued to perform well at his home park and eat innings on the road. Davis brought neither his kick-ass mentality or improved velocity back to the rotation and is in Luke Hochevar/Hiram Davies territory. 2) When will Luke Hochevar be shown the door? Midseason check-in: It appears, never, at this point. Hochevar has been solid in non-leverage situations, though pretty much every time he has been used with men on base in an inning, it has been a disaster. 3) Does Hosmer bounce back? Midseason check-in: It took some time, but Hosmer's performance from June 1 on is probably the most encouraging thing about the 2013 season so far. 4) Can Moustakas hit for a whole season like he did in the first half of 2012? Midseason check-in: Nope. Moustakas was god-awful, then great for about 3 weeks, then god-awful again. He has been better since he started working with Brett and Grafol but still has a long way to go. 5) Who regresses? Midseason check-in: Welp, Alicides Escobar is not a surprising name here (though Yost's stubborn insistence on hitting him second is ridiculous). Billy Butler is a surprise. He isn't having a terrible year - still contributing a lot to the offense - but he's not hitting for the average or power he has displayed over the past several years. 6) Who plays 2B? Midseason check-in: A whole bunch of people, and not that great. Gio is at least getting a shot, though he once again is not doing much with it. 7) Can Jeff Francoeur be at least replacement level, rather than epic horrible level? Midseason check-in: Hahahahahahahahahahaha 8) Will Dayton Moore survive to see 2014? Midseason check-in: Outlook uncertain. Probably still around, unless the team completely tanks in the second half and he does something foolish. My guess - he sacrifices Ned Yost this offseason and gets one more shot with a new manager in 2014. 9) Will Danny Duffy come back healthy? And if he does, is he the same, better or worse? Midseason check-in: Yes. Velocity looks the same, and it looks likely he is the same guy as before. 10) And the big one: Has KC added enough to run down the big-money Detroit Tigers? Midseason check-in: Doesn't look like it, does it? Last edited by duncan_idaho; 07-15-2013 at 10:01 AM..
Posts: 22,317

05-21-2013, 09:13 AM	#4516
siberian khatru 21st Century Schizoid Fan Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Gates of Delirium Casino cash: $-1125050	As Mellinger says, Royals fans come by their skepticism honestly. Why should we give this franchise the benefit of the doubt? But if you're looking for hope, consider that last year the Tigers were 6 games under .500 on June 8, and still a game under .500 on July 5. They were six games out of first on June 12.
Posts: 71,823

05-21-2013, 09:59 AM	#4521
Mr. Laz Don't Tease Me Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: KS Casino cash: $11047037	we have some talent now and have shown some signs of life. We should be able to attract some decent candidates for jobs. Time for Yost and Moore to hit the bricks. There is still something wrong with our development system. Why don't our young hitters have any plate discipline? __________________
Posts: 95,626

05-21-2013, 10:36 AM	#4525
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $-1889692	Next two games are crucial. Need to come out of this week at least 3 games above .500. Win the next two against the Astros and build some momentum going into the weekend series with the Angels, and last night is a blip. Still, they really should have won that game ... let a trash pitcher off the hook too many times. Moves I would like to see: 1) DFA Getz 2) DFA JC Gutierrez 3) Call up Johnny Giavotella 4) Call up Louis Coleman 5a) Demote Mike Moustakas (or DFA Jeff Francoeur) 5b) Call up Anthony Seratelli Use Cain to leadoff until Jarrod Dyson returns unless he's sitting. If he sits, and Lough is playing, use Lough in the leadoff spot. Eric Hosmer to the two. He's not hitting for any power (though his 2B last night raised his SLG above his OBP, finally), but he's getting on base at a decent rate and at least making pitchers work a bit (most of the time). Leave Gordon in the 3 and Butler in the 4. Move Sal Perez up to the 5 spot. He has to produce out of that spot. Hit Escobar 9th. It's his correct lineup role. 6-7-8 are filled by the combination of 3B, RF and 2B, in some sort of platoon role until Dyson is healthy and until or unless Moustakas starts hitting like a starter. Once Dyson returns: Dyson Cain Gordon (he and Hos hit enough against lefties that L-L-L should not matter) Butler Hosmer Perez 3B RF 2B Escobar As for Dayton Moore, he's going to be on the hot seat unless this team bounces back and finishes over .500 with at least a sniff of the wildcard. (Still plenty of time for that). The minor league system has just not translated at all spots. Using Myers/Odorizzi/Montgomery to get legitimate front-rotation pitching is a valid use of the farm system. The struggles of Hosmer and Moustakas - and the injuries to the other first-wave SP propsects (Lamb and Duffy) have really devastated the ability for the farm system to make an impact on the major league roster. The bullpen has a lot of draft/developed guys, but that's not good enough. Now... if Ventura continues to murder the minor leagues like he has been (he's on pace to be a top 40 prospect right now, and he would easily be top 15 if he was bigger), and Duffy comes back strong out of the gate (two things I think WILL happen), things probably look a little rosier for Moore's farm system. Ultimately, his farm system rises and falls with Hosmer and Moustakas, though. IF those two are not at least solid MLB guys by the end of the year, it's going to be hard for Moore to get extended beyond his current contract unless Ventura, Duffy and Zimmer save his bacon. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 22,317

05-21-2013, 10:43 AM	#4527
Ceej BOOM!1! Join Date: Aug 2004 Casino cash: $6755541	Guys, don't worry BP Davis is on the bump tonight with a short porch in left field. We got this!
Posts: 19,219