2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[alnorth]

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:



Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

[Codered]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

1) This would have been fine, though trading from a (seeming) surplus is good baseball roster management, most of the time.
2) Could have done that, but would have been roundly mocked if Cabrera was offered a Gordon-like contract.
3) Teams were not beating down the door for Melky. He was available at the deadline last year and no one really wanted him.

I won't make excuses for Moore on a lot of the things he's done, but when he's being criticized for something that 99 percent of baseball thought was a good move at the time, something that almost every exec in his situation would have done, I'll defend that.

No one saw this coming for Cabrera. No one. Heck, no one even really saw Cabrera duplicating his efforts from last year.

It's not Melky's success away from the Royals that I am frustrated with. It's the pure garbage we received back from Sanchez. When you are _THAT_ wrong then you have to look at the situation and say what the heck happened!

[AndChiefs]

Originally Posted by Codered

It's not Melky's success away from the Royals that I am frustrated with. It's the pure garbage we received back from Sanchez. When you are _THAT_ wrong then you have to look at the situation and say what the heck happened!

Personally, I don't blame Dayton for the trade. I blame Sanchez for some of it though. Watching him pitch he looks completely disinterested and out of it. He has the classic look of a guy who would to like to be somewhere, anywhere else. I don't think he's trying his best and that makes me angrier.

Kyle Davies at least looked like he was trying, even though he sucked. Sanchez just looks to be biding his time until he can get out of KC.

[BigMeatballDave]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

Yeah right. Greinke was 16-6 with them last year and helped get Milwaukee to the postseason. I understand he's a FA after this season but getting to the playoffs is the goal.

If anything the Brewers have already won that trade.

I understand that Escobar is a good player but I don't see him in any All Star Games yet...Cain is completely unproven who can't stay healthy....Odorizzi from all accounts is NOT an ace, more like a 3rd starter...and Jeffress or whoever sucks.

Since when is making it to the play offs a goal?

I would think winning a WS would be the goal.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

What is fireable is an inability to build anything approaching a winning baseball team despite seven years on the job.

The only ability he's shown is that he can convince Glass to throw millions of dollars at elite draft prospects in the 1st round.

This. Ive been down on him for about 2 years now. Hes defiantely not the "savior" he was advertised as when he arrived.

The most disappointing thing is he was advertised as a "pitching guru" coming from the Braves and our rotation has sucked nearly ever year hes been here. Except for Grienke (who wasnt his) and a couple of years from Meche. Thats about it.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

I don't think anyone is disagreeing that the move was logical and understandable. But it was WRONG, period. Baseball trades aren't a success if Keith Law and the guys at Baseball Prospectus give their approval, they are a success if they are backed up by results.

Moore's original signing of Melky was great, but it appears it was more of a blind luck scrapheap signing than any magical evaluation by Moore, as he traded him after one year.

And I agree that giving up one year of Cabrera is not something that is fireable. What is fireable is an inability to build anything approaching a winning baseball team despite seven years on the job.

The only ability he's shown is that he can convince Glass to throw millions of dollars at elite draft prospects in the 1st round.

Fair enough.

I haven't reached my ultimate breaking point yet, though I'm more down on Moore now than I have been since he got here. Bad luck with injuries this year hurts, but its stuff like the stubborn backing of Francouer and Betancourt, the treatment of Johnny Giavotella (especially bad, IMO) and Wil Myers that burns me the most.

I think part of my thing is that I decided/realized in 09/10 that with the way this thing was being built, 2013 was the year that enough pieces would be in place internally to really make a push (without good luck).

Next year is his shot, though. Moore is going to have to make some moves to improve the starting pitching (one trade and one FA signing, at minimum). And they're going to have to put it all together. Or he's just another Chuck LaMar in my book.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by Deberg_1990

This. Ive been down on him for about 2 years now. Hes defiantely not the "savior" he was advertised as when he arrived.

The most disappointing thing is he was advertised as a "pitching guru" coming from the Braves and our rotation has sucked nearly ever year hes been here. Except for Grienke (who wasnt his) and a couple of years from Meche. Thats about it.

That's something that stood out to me in the Grantland piece:

But the cold reality is this: Dayton Moore took the job right after the 2006 draft, and six years later, not one pitcher he has drafted is in a major league starting rotation. And unless the Royals make a major splash in free agency or through a trade, there is no reason to believe their starting rotation next April will be any better than the one that has torpedoed this season. Moore knows this, and he also knows that excuses for losing are wearing thin on ownership. The only way out may be to trade a sizable chunk of his vaunted farm system this winter to acquire an established starting pitcher — which risks undoing all the good that Moore has done with the farm system to begin with.

[DeezNutz]

Pitching is the currency of baseball, and David Glass has a savings account.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Pitching is the currency of baseball, and David Glass has a savings account.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

You keep saying this but you really have no clue if it's true. Did you conduct a survey of everyone in baseball?

"Everyone" also roundly mocked Moore for signing Frenchy. Can we blame him yet for that brilliant acquisition or is too early? What about Yuni Betancourt, who might literally be the worst position player in the game? We acquired him not once, but twice.

Clearly Brian Sabean thought Cabrera was capable of a repeat performance. But he has a WS ring so I guess he is content to not just go with what "everyone" else thinks about player evaluation.

Everyone - hyperbole on my part, I admit. The press reaction to the trade - including reaction from scouts - was either positive or neutral. That's part of where my perception on this comes from. The other part... I talk regularly with some people who are still "in" the sports-writing industry (occasionally as a scouting source but more often just shooting the sh*t) that speak to a lot of execs and etc. Again, reaction was either positive or neutral. So it really should be "Everyone I talked to."

I think I mentioned this below, but the treatment of Francouer and Betancourt is maddening - and much more frustrating than Cabrera to me. Baseball execs are going to make mistakes. Lots of them. The key is taking action to rectify the mistake once it is clear.

I was fine/neutral on signing Francouer. I'm NOT fine/neutral on insisting to run him out there every day when it apparently blocks the best hitting prospect in baseball.

One year of Betancourt was fine with me, assuming he was a utility infielder and platoon style player against good lefties. Playing him every day is asinine (even though he's been better that I expected, at least with the bat), and I think it's past time to give Gio another shot/real shot.

[DeezNutz]

Frenchy's OBP is .289, but there's a question about "where to put" Myers? I have a modest suggestion.

And the bottom line is that DM has assembled one of the most woeful pitching staffs in the league, six years after taking the job. Not going to listen to the injuries excuse because all teams have injuries.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by Wickedson

Yeah right. Greinke was 16-6 with them last year and helped get Milwaukee to the postseason. I understand he's a FA after this season but getting to the playoffs is the goal.

If anything the Brewers have already won that trade.

Greinke helped them get to the playoffs and that is it. No WS, and no NL titles to show for it. Getting to the the playoffs is nice but it was not the ultimate goal for that team. They literally sold the farm to make a run at the WS and it didn't work out. The Brewers are now going to trade Greinke and will likely get nothing close to what we got for him. There is no way the Brewers have won that trade already, moreover, they have already lost the trade.

Originally Posted by Wickedson

I understand that Escobar is a good player but I don't see him in any All Star Games yet...Cain is completely unproven who can't stay healthy....Odorizzi from all accounts is NOT an ace, more like a 3rd starter...and Jeffress or whoever sucks.

We all know Escobar is a rising star and one of the best shortstops in the league. You can't possibly use ASG appearances against Escobar, especially when Jeter, one of the most popular players in the league, plays that position. As soon as Jeter drops off, Escobar will be there or when people realize he is just as good and maybe better than Cabrera he will replace him. Cain will be good provided he is healthy. I should have said Odo could be an ace for the Royals, but even as a 2 or 3 that is good return. And so what about Jeffress...we got three legit ML contributors for a guy that didn't want to be here anymore.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

That's something that stood out to me in the Grantland piece:

That's the risk in developing pitching from the HS ranks rather than selecting advanced college guys. If you don't develop them well from the start, you can end up with very little to show for it. And most HS guys are going to take 4-5 years to develop. They've relied on that almost exclusively, except for the 2009 draft. And it hasn't borne much fruit yet.

I think Rany mentioned this in that piece... but the only SP he's had come through so far is Danny Duffy, who was from his first "Dayton is in control" draft class.

I think making a change in the minor league pitching development coordinator (hiring Rick Knapp) was a good move, but it could very well be too little, too late.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

That's something that stood out to me in the Grantland piece:

But the cold reality is this: Dayton Moore took the job right after the 2006 draft, and six years later, not one pitcher he has drafted is in a major league starting rotation. And unless the Royals make a major splash in free agency or through a trade, there is no reason to believe their starting rotation next April will be any better than the one that has torpedoed this season. Moore knows this, and he also knows that excuses for losing are wearing thin on ownership. The only way out may be to trade a sizable chunk of his vaunted farm system this winter to acquire an established starting pitcher — which risks undoing all the good that Moore has done with the farm system to begin with.

I really don't get Rany's last point. The entire purpose of building a great farm system is to use them as trading chips for major league talent, not sit on all of them and pray them develop into stars. The bust rate of prospects is extremely high, so you need to evaluate which ones are keepers and which ones are assets to trade.

The 90's-00's Atlanta teams were great at trading their overrated prospects for established MLB talent, but it seems like Moore is too scared to trade. Guys like Mike Montgomery and Chris Dwyer could have been key pieces to trade for a very talented player two years ago, but now they are virtually worthless due to waiting too long.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

I really don't get Rany's last point. The entire purpose of building a great farm system is to use them as trading chips for major league talent, not sit on all of them and pray them develop into stars. The bust rate of prospects is extremely high, so you need to evaluate which ones are keepers and which ones are assets to trade.

The 90's-00's Atlanta teams were great at trading their overrated prospects for established MLB talent, but it seems like Moore is too scared to trade. Guys like Mike Montgomery and Chris Dwyer could have been key pieces to trade for a very talented player two years ago, but now they are virtually worthless due to waiting too long.

How long have many of us been crying for this to happen?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

I really don't get Rany's last point. The entire purpose of building a great farm system is to use them as trading chips for major league talent, not sit on all of them and pray them develop into stars. The bust rate of prospects is extremely high, so you need to evaluate which ones are keepers and which ones are assets to trade.

The 90's-00's Atlanta teams were great at trading their overrated prospects for established MLB talent, but it seems like Moore is too scared to trade. Guys like Mike Montgomery and Chris Dwyer could have been key pieces to trade for a very talented player two years ago, but now they are virtually worthless due to waiting too long.

TINSTAPP