2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[alnorth]

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:



Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

[Great Expectations]

Ryan Verdugo has a good strikeout rate, what are his chances to be a solid MLB starter?

[alnorth]

Chen's 5 starts:

6IP, 0ER - awesome start, No Decision
5IP, 2ER - OK start, No Decision
7IP, 2ER - pretty good start, Loss
7IP, 3ER - somewhere between OK and decent, Loss
2.2IP, 6ER - bad start, Loss

Chen's run support - Zero Runs, 2 Runs, 1 Run, 1 Run, and the last one doesn't matter because he was bad that day.

When Chen is pitching, we aren't scoring runs until he leaves, if ever.

If Chen was pitching for Detroit or Texas, he'd probably be at least 3-1 right now. Which is why, again, pitching wins is a dumbass stat that no one should pay any attention to.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Then why even award pitchers individual wins and losses? Why track them at all if you feel they are unimportant?

God, you guys are so indoctrinated to losing that it makes me shake my head.

Tell all those pitchers who won 300 games -one of the hallmarks of making it to Coopsertown- that the accomplishment is a dumbass stat.

i dont think this conversation has anything to do with being "indoctrinated to losing" i think it has more to do with people just not agreeing with your assesment of chen

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Then why even award pitchers individual wins and losses? Why track them at all if you feel they are unimportant?

God, you guys are so indoctrinated to losing that it makes me shake my head.

Tell all those pitchers who won 300 games -one of the hallmarks of making it to Coopsertown- that the accomplishment is a dumbass stat.

Because of history. I'm not arguing that they be wiped out of the record book, because it is tradition. They should just carry no weight when deciding the Cy Young award and Hall of Fame votes. (this is now the case, see: Bert Blyleven, who would have become an all-time legend if he played for a good team. Enough stupid old people died and younger writers became aware of this, just in time to overlook his wins and save his hall of fame candidacy)

It is so utterly obvious that pitching wins is a dumbass stat, that you only make yourself look really silly by arguing otherwise.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by alnorth

Because of history. I'm not arguing that they be wiped out of the record book, because it is tradition. They should just carry no weight when deciding the Cy Young award and Hall of Fame votes. (this is now the case, see: Bert Blyleven, who would have become an all-time legend if he played for a good team)

It is so utterly obvious that pitching wins is a dumbass stat, that you only make yourself look really silly by arguing otherwise.

So Pitchers should be blamed for a lack of run support or a faulty bullpen? Actually answer the question, do you feel Greinke should have won the Cy Young award in 2009?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Duncan, you don't count wins and losses. You've convinced me that that's no way to measure success.

You're right and I've seen the light.

I now fervently believe that every player should get a hug from Bud Selig, and an MLB "self esteem" medal for team participation. Then on off days, they all go to Chuckie Cheese! Yeah buddy!

And The Yanks, Texas, Anaheim and Detroit all go to the AL Playoffs every year just because they bought the right to do so. It's just business, you know?

BTW: Royals are no longer in the cellar, they're tied for the cellar!

I feel better already! And, with a .286 "winning pct" (although we're not concerned with wins and losses) we're only 5.5 games out!

Looks like Butler is going to be our All Star.

Overall wins matter, man. I wouldn't argue that. That's why teams are out there.

What's silly is measuring a pitcher's ultimate effectiveness solely on wins and losses. That's not a true measure of a pitcher's worth. There are a lot of things outside the pitcher's control - run support, defense behind him, the effectiveness of any pitchers that follow him - that dictate whether a win is awarded or not.

Which of the two would you rather have?

Pitcher A: 2.25 ERA/1.05 WHIP/230 IP/225 K/14 W/14 L
Pitcher B: 3.30 ERA/1.25 WHIP/215 IP/175 K/22 W/6 L

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

i dont think this conversation has anything to do with being "indoctrinated to losing" i think it has more to do with people just not agreeing with your assesment of chen

Pretty much, and I wasn't even expecting Chen to be any good, I was fully prepared to write off 2 years ago as a fluke and see Chen suck last year, and again this year. I'm a little amazed, and still half-expecting him to fall apart later this season.

We're not exactly afraid to yell for someone's demotion when they suck. (See: the great failed Mendoza experiment) Now THAT is a legitimately crappy pitcher. Maybe he can be a 1-inning reliever, but he can't pitch to a lineup more than once.

[alnorth]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

So Pitchers should be blamed for a lack of run support or a faulty bullpen? Actually answer the question, do you feel Greinke should have won the Cy Young award in 2009?

You might want to go back and re-read my post. Either that, or you clicked reply on the wrong post and meant this for someone else.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Then why even award pitchers individual wins and losses? Why track them at all if you feel they are unimportant?

God, you guys are so indoctrinated to losing that it makes me shake my head.

Tell all those pitchers who won 300 games -one of the hallmarks of making it to Coopsertown- that the accomplishment is a dumbass stat.

This has nothing to do with losing. It has to do with looking at baseball logically.

Here's a great test: Which hitter do you think is going to help you win more games next season.

These are their career averages. We'll assume, for consistency sake, that each player is still in his prime (both will be 29 next year).

Hitter A: .307/18/81 RBI/.325 OBP/.450 SLG
Bitter B: .260/20/60 RBI/.350 OBP/.450 SLG

[gblowfish]

Here's the current American League Pitching Stats:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

No Royals starting pitcher shows up in any of the top ten of favorable stats. And for the staff in general, we have two guys -Crow and Mijeras- tied for appearances at 11.

Chen is tied for second in the AL with losses at 3, tied for second in starts at 5, and is tied for fourth in wild pitches at 2. Those are the only stats where he shows up.

Royals pitching staff is very impressive when you look at the list of wild pitches, and batters hit by pitch. We're very good at those two categories. We throw lots of wild pitches (we miss Perez) and we hit a lot of guys.

In wins, saves, ERA, strikeouts per 9 innings, innings pitched, not so much.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Here's the current American League Pitching Stats:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

No Royals starting pitcher shows up in any of the top ten of favorable stats. And for the staff in general, we have two guys -Crow and Mijeras- tied for appearances at 11.

Chen is tied for second in the AL with losses at 3, tied for second in starts at 5, and is tied for fourth in wild pitches at 2. Those are the only stats where he shows up.

Royals pitching staff is very impressive when you look at the list of wild pitches, and batters hit by pitch. We're very good at those two categories. We throw lots of wild pitches (we miss Perez) and we hit a lot of guys.

In wins, saves, ERA, strikeouts per 9 innings, innings pitched, not so much.

No one is arguing that Chen is an ace who should be showing up in those stats. The only argument has been that Chen is a solid 3-4 starter who would have a spot in the rotation of a LOT of teams around baseball.

Duffy has been better than expected. If he doesn't have TJ surgery in his near future, he will rank respectably in K/9, (20K through 17.1 IP). If he maintains a sub-4.00 ERA all season, that's a huge step forward for him.

Hochevar has been good outside of one bad inning (that included a check-swing, bloop single with two strikes and two outs and a bases-loaded misplay of a flyball that both extended the inning). There's enough there to be optmistic the second half of 2011 was no fluke (we'll see how much it evens out over the next month or two).

Chen has been himself.

Mendoza sucks.

Sanchez has been disappointing.

Swapping out the dozer for Paulino is going to help, but any way you slice it... the Royals needed to sign one more pitcher in the offseason. Somehow.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by gblowfish

Here's the current American League Pitching Stats:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/le...-leaders.shtml

No Royals starting pitcher shows up in any of the top ten of favorable stats. And for the staff in general, we have two guys -Crow and Mijeras- tied for appearances at 11.

Chen is tied for second in the AL with losses at 3, tied for second in starts at 5, and is tied for fourth in wild pitches at 2. Those are the only stats where he shows up.

Royals pitching staff is very impressive when you look at the list of wild pitches, and batters hit by pitch. We're very good at those two categories. We throw lots of wild pitches (we miss Perez) and we hit a lot of guys.

In wins, saves, ERA, strikeouts per 9 innings, innings pitched, not so much.

are all 5 starting pitchers for 3/4 of the teams in MLB in the top ten in those catagories?

if not take that and shove it up your ass because that has nothing to do with the idiotic statement you made a couple of days ago

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

are all 5 starting pitchers for 3/4 of the teams in MLB in the top ten in those catagories?

if not take that and shove it up your ass because that has nothing to do with the idiotic statement you made a couple of days ago

Also, before chens 1st bad game, he would of been up there much higher in era, or lower era.

But it is a shame he does not have any wins. He has had some good games, just no run support. He is not an ace by any means.

So made up line. Which pitcher you want consistently? And what do the stats tell?
A: 5games, 4-0, 24ip, 8.25era
B: 5games, 0-3, 29ip, 3.25era

Basically again, wins/losses are not always the pitchers fault.

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by alnorth

You might want to go back and re-read my post. Either that, or you clicked reply on the wrong post and meant this for someone else.

Whoopzadasies, this was supposed to be directed at George.

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

the Royals needed to sign one more pitcher in the offseason. Somehow.

they should have done this last year.....

I swear, every year it's some other excuse for this franchise.....