Football ChiefsPlanet Football for Dummies

ToxSocks · 01-07-2010, 02:05 PM

Inspired by some of the great posts i've been reading today, i thought it would be a great idea to copy a concept i've seen used on some automotive forums i visit.

Why not have one thread (that should be stickied) that contains the vast collective knowledge of CP regarding all things football?

i.e schemes/philosophies, terms etc. I think it would be a great resource for people, like myself to nail down a real good, solid understanding of the inner workings of football.

This thread should be devoted to learning from each other, not fighting with each other. I've learned a lot from CP, and would like to learn more.

ToxSocks · 01-07-2010, 02:06 PM

Credit to HAMAS JENKINS:

"In Belichick's 3-4, the DL are designed to occupy multiple blockers and multiple gaps. On either side of each interior lineman, there is a gap. The two gaps off the center are the A Gap, for example.

The NT's job in Belichick's schem is to occupy both "A" gaps, and ideally, another blocker. Both ends have similar responsibilities. Thus, by tying up 3 players with multiple blockers, you leave an extra linebacker or two an isolated matchup, or a mismatch against a back. The remaining LBs must maintain their disciplines on the second level.

It's a read and react type of 3-4. It's not nearly as aggressive as the schemes utilized by Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or Dallas.

Dallas' 3-4 asks the DL to be smaller than Parcells/Belichick's. Thus, the NT in Dallas' scheme, Jay Ratliff, is 300 pounds, wherein Belichick's scheme, Vince Wilfork at 350 is the ideal size.

Ratliff exemplifies what they want from their DL. He shoots a single gap (as do the other DL) and tries to get into the backfield and disrupt running lanes and passing plays, whereas in BB's schem the DL are basically there to eat space.

That's why so many of us viewed the move to a 3-4 as a horrendous waste of Dorsey's talents"

ToxSocks · 01-07-2010, 02:06 PM

Credit to CHIEFNJ2:

"What are the systems being used by today's 3-4s, and how do they work?

There are three systems being run out of the 3-4s.

1. The Fairbanks-Bullough (we'll call it the Bullough).
2. The Phillips
3. The Lebeau Zone-Blitz

The Bullough

This system is what most people think of when they think of the 3-4. It is based on 2-gap play on the D-line.

The system was used in colleges for years before, but came to the pros in 1974 and was built to withstand professional offenses by Coach Fairbanks. He coached Oklahoma (where the system was created in the 40s), and the Patriots.

Coach Bullough (who was a head coach for BUF but the defensive coordiantor for NE in the 70s) refined the system further. It no longer looks like the collegiate 3-4 of the 40s and 50s (in which the 3-4 was close to the line, every player was a brute, and the team played mostly zone).

The NT is a 2 gap player who lines up at 0 or 1 technique. The DEs will be aligned based on situation, play, and match-up. All three players are typically bigger than in the other two systems. They often plug up the OL to allow the LBs to make the big plays, and so they get little credit in the stats themselves.

One common tactic is to shift over or under (depending on the direction of the shift). Most 4-3 do this on the DL on a few plays. But in the 3-4 as run under the Bullough, the team will often "scissor", which means they shift the DLs one way, and the LBs another.

Here's a scissor:

Scissor_medium

This gives the OL little time to react to a new formation. Is the JACK LB going to "cheat forward" and play like a one gap DE, or is he going to zone? Note how the NT can now draw double coverage from the Right Guard and the Right Tackle, and the Left End (The right most "X") is still there to cause problems for the Right Tackle. The SAM LB is now in an ideal position to wrap around the line and take out the QB.

The confusion doesn't stop here. The LBs can zone, man, or blitz. That's three things that each of four LBs can do. Do the math to try to predict the number of variations. Then, before patting yourself on the back, consider that each of those actions have further variations. Man - which man? Zone - zone where? Blitz - through which lane?

Despite the fact that the Bullough can be confusing, the system relies on a lot of "bend; don't break" thinking. The system will often give up short yards in the run, and blitzes are not common. The idea is that the longer the offense is on the clock, the longer it takes them to score, and the more plays the offense risks an interception, fumble, or a fourth down.

The "Phillips"

This system is not what people think of when they think of the 3-4, because the original 3-4 was/is strictly a 2-gap system.

In fact, look at the Denver "Orange Crush Defense" of the late 70's. It was run by Red Miller, and one of his assistants at the time was Coach Belichick. Belichick ended up in NE as we all know, while Fairbanks returned to college coaching in Colorado. Denver fans would thus be more likely than many fans to think of the 3-4 in terms of 2 gap, but you can still read the mistaken notion in many sports sites and publications.

The Phillips is named after "Bum Phillips", father of DAL head coach Wade Phillips, who formerly coached the Broncos as both a head coach and defensive coordinator. Bum learned under Paul "Bear" Bryant at A&M and had coached high school football well enough to break into the college ranks (not a common route). He was a defensive coordinator in SD, then in HOU (that's the Oilers for you young folks). He later was a head coach in HOU and later for NO.

Phillips was an innovator who turned the 3-4 upside down. His system is one-gap. The DL penetrates, and is charged with constant harrasment of the QB. The LBs are typically fast, and at least one of them will blitz on any given play.

The reason for the near constant 1-LB blitz is to account for the fact that the outnumbered DL is also relatively undersized and only one-gapping. However, the adjustments work out well. The OL never knows who the blitzer will be, or where he will come from. The Phillips is more aggressive that the Bullough. The school of thought for the Phillips 3-4 is the need to pressure against the QB to stop the pass threat, and this is done by varying who the "fourth rusher" (who is really a blitzer) is.

Add another blitzer in here and there, and the speedy/aggressive Phillips system is a threat to QBs, and attempts to get turnovers by slashing the time that a QB has to make decisions.

This is the system of choice for DAL, but also SD.

It is not the ideal system for SD in one sense. Denver (king of the offensive "zone block " system for runs) and oakland (newly switched to the zone block) are built to run over the 1 gap defenses, and they share the division with SD. SD adjusts for this by:

* Relying on a high tempo offense featuring LT, Gates, and Chambers to dictate games,
* Backing up the LBs to give them more reactionary distance, and
* Shooting for a better record against the Chiefs (2 games) and the other 10 games out of division.

The Lebeau zone blitz

Attack, Attack, Attack.

The Zone Blitz is very nasty thing to deal with. In terms of player types, one can vary the NT type and even the DEs, but 1 gap speed DEs are much more common.

The zone blitz play (also know as a zone fire play) has been around for ages. Dick Lebeau took the play and turned it into a full system for Pittsburgh in the early 90's. He tried his hand at head coaching and being a coordinator elsewhere, but with little success. He doesn't seem to be a good manager, and isn't great at adopting to the existing systems of other teams. What Lebeau is know for it two things. His players love him (they play hard for him), and he is an excellent theoretician who develops elaborate plays with many twists.

The idea is that the different DLs will often drop back into coverage, while several linebackers (and even defensive backs) will blitz. The OL can't brace themselves, because if they do they will likely brace for the wrong assault. This is the one defense that prides itsself on turning the tables - the defensive line and the LBs hit the OL hard and often and try to wear down the other side.

CBs most often jam or jack the WRs , then either drop into zone or blitz. SAFs either zone or blitz (a safety blitz is called a "monster"), the LBs blitz most often, and sometimes zone, the DL either rushes or ends up in zone. It's a very fun defense to watch.

This defense tries to stop the run by penetrating the OL and disrupting the offense's backfield. They stop the pass by targetting the QB with heavy blitz packages.

Here's an example of a play:

Zoneblitzplay_medium

The CBs will jam then zone. The FS goes deep center zone. The NT takes his left A-Gap and tries to draw double coverage. The R-DE takes a zone typically occupied by the JACK LB, while the L-DE zones left to watch for the screen (note that screens are not effective against zone blitz schemes). The SS gets sent on a monster blitz, the JACK and SAM blitz the outside, the WILL blitzes the right B-Gap, the MIKE the left B-Gap (keep in mind that "left" and "right" are from the defense's view when talking about the defense).

It looks like a good enough play, but here's the catch. Look at the diagram again and look at the gaps. It is reasonable to assume that half of the offensive linemen are firing out of their stances and blocking someone who isn't there. They never know if the DL is coming or not. Whenever they guess wrong they get physically punished, and probably leave a trail to the QB in the meantime.

The zone blitz is very effective against screen passes, wreaks havoc against check offs by QBs (because the zones can't be anticipated, nor can the rush), and is the only major defensive scheme that is predicated on wearing down the OL instead of the OL wearing down the DL. FOr these reasons, the timing system used by Peyton Manning of the Colts can face more troubles here than in many other systems.

There is one glaring weakness. You drop a DL into a zone and the blitz doesn't hurry the QB and the QB has a quick-realease for an arm... well your defensive lineman isn't probably going to match a WR or TE going for a reception, is he?"
__________________
Trying to hold back all criticism until 2011.

kstater · 01-07-2010, 02:07 PM

The key to a successful team is to focus the offense on the TE's 10 years.

FAX · 01-07-2010, 02:07 PM

Awesome idea, Mr. Detoxing.

1. Handoff. When the quarterback gives the ball to somebody else and gets the hell out of the way.

Hope that helps.

FAX

**Buck** · 01-07-2010, 02:08 PM

"The Powdery Substance was the Goal Line"

**Reaper16** · 01-07-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Credit to CHIEFNJ2:

What are the systems being used by today's 3-4s, and how do they work?...

CHIEFNJ2 copied-and-pasted from http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5...ity-modern-3-4 without giving credit.

FAX · 01-07-2010, 02:10 PM

2. Snap. What happens when a strong safety is running real, real fast and his helmet makes contact with the quarterback's lower leg bone.

FAX

**ChiefGator** · 01-07-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

2. Snap. What happens when a strong safety is running real, real fast and his helmet makes contact with the quarterback's lower leg bone.

FAX

Ha! I was about to ask about the SNAP. Watching the Chiefs, I thought it was when the center throws the ball over the quarterback or punters head, so they are forced to run around looking for the football, but also kinda looking like they lost a contact.

Chiefnj2 · 01-07-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper16

CHIEFNJ2 copied-and-pasted from http://www.milehighreport.com/2008/5...ity-modern-3-4 without giving credit.

Sorry I didn't provide a link. It's pretty obvious it was a cut and paste when it references various diagrams that aren't attached.

**gblowfish** · 01-07-2010, 02:17 PM

You Play to Win the Game.
Take Off Your Diapers.
65 Toss Power Trap.
One Play at a Time.
That's all I got for ya...

FAX · 01-07-2010, 02:19 PM

3. Block. The section of his body that is located on Cassel's shoulders.

FAX

ToxSocks · 01-07-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Sorry I didn't provide a link. It's pretty obvious it was a cut and paste when it references various diagrams that aren't attached.

Yeah, i figured as much. I just didn't know where you got it, and i didn't want to take credit for something you posted.

FAX · 01-07-2010, 02:27 PM

4. Wide Receiver Screen. Very similar to using hypodermic needles to inject walrus urine into your eye sockets while sitting naked in a box of rabid mice.

FAX

Demonpenz · 01-07-2010, 02:29 PM

I was noticing our NT getting pushed all over the place our first game. So I started tooling around with the new madden and found sucess making some changes to the 3-4. First one of the problems with our NT is they he isn't strong enough at the point of attack. So I tried putting two guys where the NT is, but spread them out just a bit like over the guards so they couldn't just got the two guys in the middle. The next thing is I moved Hali in a bit to be over the Tackle. Now since I had to bring in another guy to help the NT get some push I dropped out the weakest linebacker completely. It seemed to help work on getting good push up the middle. To assist hali I also had him in a 3 point stance. Dorsey seemed to be more natural in the NTAP or the Nose tack assist position.

01-07-2010, 02:05 PM
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2133063	ChiefsPlanet Football for Dummies Inspired by some of the great posts i've been reading today, i thought it would be a great idea to copy a concept i've seen used on some automotive forums i visit. Why not have one thread (that should be stickied) that contains the vast collective knowledge of CP regarding all things football? i.e schemes/philosophies, terms etc. I think it would be a great resource for people, like myself to nail down a real good, solid understanding of the inner workings of football. This thread should be devoted to learning from each other, not fighting with each other. I've learned a lot from CP, and would like to learn more.
Posts: 65,925

01-07-2010, 02:06 PM	#2
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2133063	Credit to HAMAS JENKINS: "In Belichick's 3-4, the DL are designed to occupy multiple blockers and multiple gaps. On either side of each interior lineman, there is a gap. The two gaps off the center are the A Gap, for example. The NT's job in Belichick's schem is to occupy both "A" gaps, and ideally, another blocker. Both ends have similar responsibilities. Thus, by tying up 3 players with multiple blockers, you leave an extra linebacker or two an isolated matchup, or a mismatch against a back. The remaining LBs must maintain their disciplines on the second level. It's a read and react type of 3-4. It's not nearly as aggressive as the schemes utilized by Pittsburgh, Baltimore, or Dallas. Dallas' 3-4 asks the DL to be smaller than Parcells/Belichick's. Thus, the NT in Dallas' scheme, Jay Ratliff, is 300 pounds, wherein Belichick's scheme, Vince Wilfork at 350 is the ideal size. Ratliff exemplifies what they want from their DL. He shoots a single gap (as do the other DL) and tries to get into the backfield and disrupt running lanes and passing plays, whereas in BB's schem the DL are basically there to eat space. That's why so many of us viewed the move to a 3-4 as a horrendous waste of Dorsey's talents" __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 65,925

01-07-2010, 02:06 PM	#3
ToxSocks Needs more middle fingers Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: San Diego Casino cash: $2133063	Credit to CHIEFNJ2: "What are the systems being used by today's 3-4s, and how do they work? There are three systems being run out of the 3-4s. 1. The Fairbanks-Bullough (we'll call it the Bullough). 2. The Phillips 3. The Lebeau Zone-Blitz The Bullough This system is what most people think of when they think of the 3-4. It is based on 2-gap play on the D-line. The system was used in colleges for years before, but came to the pros in 1974 and was built to withstand professional offenses by Coach Fairbanks. He coached Oklahoma (where the system was created in the 40s), and the Patriots. Coach Bullough (who was a head coach for BUF but the defensive coordiantor for NE in the 70s) refined the system further. It no longer looks like the collegiate 3-4 of the 40s and 50s (in which the 3-4 was close to the line, every player was a brute, and the team played mostly zone). The NT is a 2 gap player who lines up at 0 or 1 technique. The DEs will be aligned based on situation, play, and match-up. All three players are typically bigger than in the other two systems. They often plug up the OL to allow the LBs to make the big plays, and so they get little credit in the stats themselves. One common tactic is to shift over or under (depending on the direction of the shift). Most 4-3 do this on the DL on a few plays. But in the 3-4 as run under the Bullough, the team will often "scissor", which means they shift the DLs one way, and the LBs another. Here's a scissor: Scissor_medium This gives the OL little time to react to a new formation. Is the JACK LB going to "cheat forward" and play like a one gap DE, or is he going to zone? Note how the NT can now draw double coverage from the Right Guard and the Right Tackle, and the Left End (The right most "X") is still there to cause problems for the Right Tackle. The SAM LB is now in an ideal position to wrap around the line and take out the QB. The confusion doesn't stop here. The LBs can zone, man, or blitz. That's three things that each of four LBs can do. Do the math to try to predict the number of variations. Then, before patting yourself on the back, consider that each of those actions have further variations. Man - which man? Zone - zone where? Blitz - through which lane? Despite the fact that the Bullough can be confusing, the system relies on a lot of "bend; don't break" thinking. The system will often give up short yards in the run, and blitzes are not common. The idea is that the longer the offense is on the clock, the longer it takes them to score, and the more plays the offense risks an interception, fumble, or a fourth down. The "Phillips" This system is not what people think of when they think of the 3-4, because the original 3-4 was/is strictly a 2-gap system. In fact, look at the Denver "Orange Crush Defense" of the late 70's. It was run by Red Miller, and one of his assistants at the time was Coach Belichick. Belichick ended up in NE as we all know, while Fairbanks returned to college coaching in Colorado. Denver fans would thus be more likely than many fans to think of the 3-4 in terms of 2 gap, but you can still read the mistaken notion in many sports sites and publications. The Phillips is named after "Bum Phillips", father of DAL head coach Wade Phillips, who formerly coached the Broncos as both a head coach and defensive coordinator. Bum learned under Paul "Bear" Bryant at A&M and had coached high school football well enough to break into the college ranks (not a common route). He was a defensive coordinator in SD, then in HOU (that's the Oilers for you young folks). He later was a head coach in HOU and later for NO. Phillips was an innovator who turned the 3-4 upside down. His system is one-gap. The DL penetrates, and is charged with constant harrasment of the QB. The LBs are typically fast, and at least one of them will blitz on any given play. The reason for the near constant 1-LB blitz is to account for the fact that the outnumbered DL is also relatively undersized and only one-gapping. However, the adjustments work out well. The OL never knows who the blitzer will be, or where he will come from. The Phillips is more aggressive that the Bullough. The school of thought for the Phillips 3-4 is the need to pressure against the QB to stop the pass threat, and this is done by varying who the "fourth rusher" (who is really a blitzer) is. Add another blitzer in here and there, and the speedy/aggressive Phillips system is a threat to QBs, and attempts to get turnovers by slashing the time that a QB has to make decisions. This is the system of choice for DAL, but also SD. It is not the ideal system for SD in one sense. Denver (king of the offensive "zone block " system for runs) and oakland (newly switched to the zone block) are built to run over the 1 gap defenses, and they share the division with SD. SD adjusts for this by: * Relying on a high tempo offense featuring LT, Gates, and Chambers to dictate games, * Backing up the LBs to give them more reactionary distance, and * Shooting for a better record against the Chiefs (2 games) and the other 10 games out of division. The Lebeau zone blitz Attack, Attack, Attack. The Zone Blitz is very nasty thing to deal with. In terms of player types, one can vary the NT type and even the DEs, but 1 gap speed DEs are much more common. The zone blitz play (also know as a zone fire play) has been around for ages. Dick Lebeau took the play and turned it into a full system for Pittsburgh in the early 90's. He tried his hand at head coaching and being a coordinator elsewhere, but with little success. He doesn't seem to be a good manager, and isn't great at adopting to the existing systems of other teams. What Lebeau is know for it two things. His players love him (they play hard for him), and he is an excellent theoretician who develops elaborate plays with many twists. The idea is that the different DLs will often drop back into coverage, while several linebackers (and even defensive backs) will blitz. The OL can't brace themselves, because if they do they will likely brace for the wrong assault. This is the one defense that prides itsself on turning the tables - the defensive line and the LBs hit the OL hard and often and try to wear down the other side. CBs most often jam or jack the WRs , then either drop into zone or blitz. SAFs either zone or blitz (a safety blitz is called a "monster"), the LBs blitz most often, and sometimes zone, the DL either rushes or ends up in zone. It's a very fun defense to watch. This defense tries to stop the run by penetrating the OL and disrupting the offense's backfield. They stop the pass by targetting the QB with heavy blitz packages. Here's an example of a play: Zoneblitzplay_medium The CBs will jam then zone. The FS goes deep center zone. The NT takes his left A-Gap and tries to draw double coverage. The R-DE takes a zone typically occupied by the JACK LB, while the L-DE zones left to watch for the screen (note that screens are not effective against zone blitz schemes). The SS gets sent on a monster blitz, the JACK and SAM blitz the outside, the WILL blitzes the right B-Gap, the MIKE the left B-Gap (keep in mind that "left" and "right" are from the defense's view when talking about the defense). It looks like a good enough play, but here's the catch. Look at the diagram again and look at the gaps. It is reasonable to assume that half of the offensive linemen are firing out of their stances and blocking someone who isn't there. They never know if the DL is coming or not. Whenever they guess wrong they get physically punished, and probably leave a trail to the QB in the meantime. The zone blitz is very effective against screen passes, wreaks havoc against check offs by QBs (because the zones can't be anticipated, nor can the rush), and is the only major defensive scheme that is predicated on wearing down the OL instead of the OL wearing down the DL. FOr these reasons, the timing system used by Peyton Manning of the Colts can face more troubles here than in many other systems. There is one glaring weakness. You drop a DL into a zone and the blitz doesn't hurry the QB and the QB has a quick-realease for an arm... well your defensive lineman isn't probably going to match a WR or TE going for a reception, is he?" __________________ Trying to hold back all criticism until 2011. __________________ Life is like a dick. Sometimes it gets hard for no reason, but it can't stay hard forever.
Posts: 65,925

01-07-2010, 02:07 PM	#4
kstater Custom User Title Join Date: Jan 2007 Casino cash: $-1563437	The key to a successful team is to focus the offense on the TE's 10 years.
Posts: 40,003

01-07-2010, 02:07 PM	#5
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	Awesome idea, Mr. Detoxing. 1. Handoff. When the quarterback gives the ball to somebody else and gets the hell out of the way. Hope that helps. FAX
Posts: 44,492

01-07-2010, 02:08 PM	#6
Buck Take a Chill Pill Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: South Carolina Casino cash: $6190295	"The Powdery Substance was the Goal Line"
Posts: 44,604

01-07-2010, 02:10 PM	#8
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	2. Snap. What happens when a strong safety is running real, real fast and his helmet makes contact with the quarterback's lower leg bone. FAX
Posts: 44,492

01-07-2010, 02:17 PM	#11
gblowfish Be Kind To Your Pets Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glorious Independence, MO Casino cash: $16896178 VARSITY	You Play to Win the Game. Take Off Your Diapers. 65 Toss Power Trap. One Play at a Time. That's all I got for ya...
Posts: 41,011

01-07-2010, 02:19 PM	#12
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	3. Block. The section of his body that is located on Cassel's shoulders. FAX
Posts: 44,492

01-07-2010, 02:27 PM	#14
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	4. Wide Receiver Screen. Very similar to using hypodermic needles to inject walrus urine into your eye sockets while sitting naked in a box of rabid mice. FAX
Posts: 44,492

01-07-2010, 02:29 PM	#15
Demonpenz Woman should only make babies Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Apartment "G UNIT!" Casino cash: $-203864	I was noticing our NT getting pushed all over the place our first game. So I started tooling around with the new madden and found sucess making some changes to the 3-4. First one of the problems with our NT is they he isn't strong enough at the point of attack. So I tried putting two guys where the NT is, but spread them out just a bit like over the guards so they couldn't just got the two guys in the middle. The next thing is I moved Hali in a bit to be over the Tackle. Now since I had to bring in another guy to help the NT get some push I dropped out the weakest linebacker completely. It seemed to help work on getting good push up the middle. To assist hali I also had him in a 3 point stance. Dorsey seemed to be more natural in the NTAP or the Nose tack assist position. __________________
Posts: 54,942