Chiefs Vindication for Carl? - Page 8

Hammock Parties · 09-16-2008, 08:32 PM

Well written piece, IMO. He has a point.

http://kan.scout.com/2/791361.html

As everyone reading this already knows, the Kansas City Chiefs are currently mired in an eleven-game losing streak. The latest loss was particularly hard to swallow, coming at home against the hated Raiders. The same Oakland team, it should be noted, who came out in their season opener looking more like an NCAA Division II cupcake than a team capable of winning games in the NFL.

With those things in mind, you aren’t likely to find too many people looking for ways to compliment Kansas City Chiefs President and General Manager Carl Peterson these days. Brace yourselves, though, because in a roundabout way that’s exactly what I’m about to do.

You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for.

What do I mean by that? For the answer, let’s jump back a few months. Shortly after the NFL Draft, WPI’s own Nick Athan conducted an interview with Chiefs’ owner Clark Hunt.

Here’s an excerpt from that piece:

Ultimately, Hunt knows that he’s serving the fans. Can they endure another losing season while this year’s draft class matures? Hunt thinks so.

"I do realize that in the short run, going with young players could have some shortcomings in terms of our performance on the field," he said. "But that’s OK. I think those guys will learn and our fans will enjoy watching those players develop."

"What I’ve come to learn is that the fans are actually really studied. They’re really smart. It must be because there’s 24-hour news on the National Football League. It’s Warpaint Illustrated and all the cable channels that cover the NFL and the constant media attention and the internet. Fans have become very smart in terms of how championship teams are built, and I sense they understand what we’re doing and will support it."

That certainly sounded good back in April. I imagine that a lot of the people who read those comments probably nodded in agreement and patted themselves on the back for being the smart, studied fans Clark said they were.

But now, just two games into the regular season, many of those same fans – no doubt spurred on by the pot-stirring of those like KC Star Columnist Jason Whitlock – are demanding that Hunt take action.

They want Peterson fired, they want Herm Edwards fired -- heck, they want both of them fired. Some even want Hunt to sell the team. They want whatever it takes in order to feel that change is on the horizon.

Unfortunately, it seems safe to say that after two more losses Hunt’s comments about the patience of the fanbase was a bit optimistic. Everyone knew the Chiefs would be a bad team this year. Sure, there were a few cockeyed optimists who were predicting K.C. to shock the world and finish 9-7, but most understood that considerable growing pains were to be expected. And, echoing Hunt’s remarks, most fans said all the right things about rebuilding during OTAs and training camp.

But as soon as the Chiefs began playing games again, something changed. It was even evident during the preseason. Perhaps some expected rebuilding to be a painless process that wouldn’t involve any sacrifice. Maybe they understood the Chiefs would lose some games, but figured every loss would be a moral victory in some way, and that rookies like Dorsey, Albert, and Flowers would all look like future Hall of Famers in the process.

Or maybe a lot of fans just never had the stomach for it to begin with.

“Not so”, they’ll undoubtedly say. “We were prepared for losing. But not like this. We weren’t prepared to lose because of the endless mistakes by Carl and the poor coaching from Herm. Get rid of ‘em!”

That sounds good and all – but I don’t buy it. Why not? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that excuse.

Two years ago, the exact same cries were rising up from fans of the Green Bay Packers. The Pack went 4-12 in 2005, the team’s worst season in fourteen years. That offseason they brought in the unheralded Mike McCarthy as their new head coach and began rebuilding the team.

The Packers traded away one of their top players (Javon Walker) and ended up with twelve draft picks, several of whom saw significant action as rookies. With the league’s youngest roster, Green Bay began the next season 1-4, starting things off with an embarrassing 26-0 loss in their home opener against a hated rival.

Is this sounding familiar? It should. Don’t get me wrong, the Packers aren’t a perfect analogy to the Chiefs’ current situation – Green Bay, after all, already had a franchise QB in place with Brett Favre, and that alone makes a considerable difference.

But as you can see, there are enough similarities to make it an interesting comparison.

The Packers lost their first three home games that season, and their lone early victory came against the similarly winless Detroit Lions. Although they rebounded from their poor start and nearly got back to .500, they ultimately lost eight of their first twelve games and were sitting at 4-8 in early December.

When the team was slow out of the gate, outraged Packers fans wasted little time in demanding that McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson be fired. The same cries for change referenced in that column continued throughout the season as the Packers struggled, suffering lopsided defeats at the hands of the Eagles, Patriots, Bills, and Jets.

But the Packers pulled together in the final month and won four straight games to finish 8-8. A year later, still sticking to youth, Green Bay made their conference title game.

Will Kansas City finish 8-8 this season? Will they be a Super Bowl contender next year? Probably not.

As mentioned, the Chiefs don’t have a QB, and they also don’t have the benefit of playing in the weaker NFC. But the point of the comparison, as Packers’ fans learned, is that it’s foolish to judge so quickly.

Chiefs’ fans can say they’re not being impatient with losses, that it’s the coaching and management they’re upset with. It just rings hollow. Any Packers fan who signed a petition to fire McCarthy and Thompson during the 2006 season would probably admit today that they overreacted. They recognize that their young team started to improve as they got more experience and developed chemistry with one another.

No matter how the angry masses in Kansas City might want to justify their reactions, the simple truth is this: anyone who’s demanding sweeping changes in the Chiefs’ organization because a bad team played a bad game on Sunday wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season.

For that matter, anyone who wanted to see 35-year old Damon Huard trot back onto the field Sunday, rather than see 24-year old Tyler Thigpen get his opportunity, wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. And most of all, anyone who’s not willing to wait more than two games before declaring the rebuilding effort a failure wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season.

So, no, I’m not buying that the reactions are all about Herm and Carl. And you know who else isn’t buying it? Carl Peterson.

After all, judging by the reactions we’re seeing, Peterson had everyone pegged a long time ago. He’s been criticized by millions, myself included, for the strategy he’s executed all these years. Stock up on free agents every few seasons, never bother to develop a young quarterback when you can always acquire a veteran with experience, and do everything else possible to shoot for a season of eight or nine wins. And if you can make the playoffs, hey, anything can happen once you’re in the tournament.

That’s been the Carl Peterson way, and the results speak for themselves. Sure, the Chiefs haven’t won a playoff game since Joe Montana was under center, but Arrowhead has still been filled to capacity year after year. Every December, no matter how mediocre the Chiefs were, the seats were always full and the stadium was always loud as long as there was some outside chance at a playoff berth.

Contrast that to this year, when even after a highly-praised draft and one of those “moral victories” against the New England juggernaut, the openly rebuilding Chiefs – finally trying to build a championship team the right way – struggled to sell out their home opener against their biggest rival.

While Hunt had reason for his view of how the fans would react to a rebuilding season, maybe Peterson’s view was a little more in line with reality. Perhaps he’s been more tuned-in to the fans than anyone ever thought he was. Maybe he knew that Chiefs fans just aren’t cut out for this rebuilding stuff.

I just hope he’s not the sort of guy to say “I told you so."

**Baby Lee** · 09-17-2008, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillip

That's the boat I'm in. I want to have fun watching the Chiefs. That's why I don't like Herm. He makes the game so F-ing boring to watch. Even if we're winning the way he does things (which we won't because those days are long gone) it will be like watching the Ravens super bowl run some years back. Snooze.

Go watch basketball, pansy.

milkman · 09-17-2008, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock

Because there really should be visible, tangible progress. After two games.

Anyone who expected to see progress from the players at this point in the season was sure to be disappointed.

But I expected to some some more imaginitive playcalling from Chan Gaily.

We keep seeing the same stupid shit.

We keep running into brick walls and putting ourselves into known passing situations, and that is a formula for failure.

It's non productive, and QB destructive.

It's the Bag 'em and Tag 'em offense.

FAX · 09-17-2008, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock

Pretty much, yeah. But is it really a demeaning, disrespectful view if it's true? Why not just say "accurate view"?

Well, here's the thing, Mr. BigRock. A lot of Chiefs fans can differentiate between a "rebuild" and a deperate attempt to steal a cheap win by running the sloption.

In fact, I think a lot of Chiefs fans are sufficiently sophisticated to know the difference between playing young players in a scheme that allows them to maximize their skills, gain valuable playing time, and grow as both individual performers and as a team vs. dialing back, dumbing down, and displaying disorganized dumbassery.

Personally, I think that, if Hermoine were to just go for it, open up the offense, and take his lumps along the way, most peeps would understand and he would be far better off - both in the short term and in the long run. Besides, that's what he clearly indicated he was going to do and, you know, Chiefs fans don't like being lied to, either.

FAX

Mecca · 09-17-2008, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRock

Because there really should be visible, tangible progress. After two games.

The problem with this is, with a young team you don't want a coach who looks lost on the sideline, having a coach and frankly a front office that appears to be completely lost is not good for the development of these players.

I said long ago the idea of going young is correct, but he isn't the right guy to get it done. He isn't the kind of coach to do this...the Chiefs have very very little leadership and it starts with Herm Edwards.

I don't have a problem rebuilding I have a problem with the people leading it, I feel that they are more likely to lead us to being Detroit. I don't feel we have the coaching staff to develop these players to their full potential or establish any leadership or confidence in them.

We have a head coach who in a rebuilding year where nothing is expected still coaches like his asshole is puckered with pressure.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-17-2008, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Anyone who expected to see progress from the players at this point in the season was sure to be disappointed.

But I expected to some some more imaginitive playcalling from Chan Gaily.

We keep seeing the same stupid shit.

We keep running into brick walls and putting ourselves into known passing situations, and that is a formula for failure.

It's non productive, and QB destructive.

It's the Bag 'em and Tag 'em offense.

QFT.

Mecca · 09-17-2008, 05:56 AM

We'll never see change in the offense because Herm is here, it's his offense. He then will fire the OC as the scapegoat, it's why he's had 5 of them in 7 years....a new guy comes in and it's the same offense.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-17-2008, 05:58 AM

Keep complaining, people.

Then maybe, Herm will get his shit together, this team might gel, and we might win 4 games, giving Herm ANOTHER YEAR.

Christ, people should be doing ****ing backflips over Herm's incompetence, he's signing his own death notice.

Mecca · 09-17-2008, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Keep complaining, people.

Then maybe, Herm will get his shit together, this team might gel, and we might win 4 games, giving Herm ANOTHER YEAR.

Christ, people should be doing ****ing backflips over Herm's incompetence, he's signing his own death notice.

The problem is there are some people that will say even if they go 1-15 no one will get fired, I know that sounds laughable but this is the Chiefs so that though does cross my mind.

Hootie · 09-17-2008, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Anyone that thinks Herm is going to win a SB I really want the drugs you are taking

I doubt Herm, too...I really do...

But I think Giants fans were probably saying the same thing about Tom Coughlin the last few years...

Just sayin'...

**Fire Me Boy!** · 09-17-2008, 06:02 AM

Might want to edit the online version -

"You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for."

I'm pretty sure he meant "recent descent".

**dirk digler** · 09-17-2008, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

But I expected to some some more imaginitive playcalling from Chan Gaily.

We keep seeing the same stupid shit.

We keep running into brick walls and putting ourselves into known passing situations, and that is a formula for failure.

It's non productive, and QB destructive.

It's the Bag 'em and Tag 'em offense.

Yep I agree. It is like giving them a stick and send them off to fight the guy with an AK-47

milkman · 09-17-2008, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep I agree. It is like giving them a stick and send them off to fight the guy with an AK-47

That's actually a good analogy.

In most cases though, the guy with the stick would be smart enough to hide.

Herman ****ing Edwards is the guy with the stick that is so stupid, he stands out in the open and yells that he's going to kick some ass.

**Bowser** · 09-17-2008, 07:07 AM

Every good rebuild starts with losing to an incompetent floundering division rival in your home opener that got embarassed themselves the week before in THEIR home opener! Everything is going according to plan!

Chiefnj2 · 09-17-2008, 07:32 AM

It's been a rebuild for three years. Herm came in and immediately made changes to the defense and special teams. He brought his own special teams coach. He implemented the cover 2 and brought over a host of NY Jets to try to get it done and focussed on defense in his drafts. The rebuild didn't begin this year. .

**Bowser** · 09-17-2008, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

It's been a rebuild for three years. Herm came in and immediately made changes to the defense and special teams. He brought his own special teams coach. He implemented the cover 2 and brought over a host of NY Jets to try to get it done and focussed on defense in his drafts. The rebuild didn't begin this year. .

So this is the first year they are actually ADMITTING to rebuilding. Got it.

09-16-2008, 08:32 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1050478	Vindication for Carl? Well written piece, IMO. He has a point. http://kan.scout.com/2/791361.html As everyone reading this already knows, the Kansas City Chiefs are currently mired in an eleven-game losing streak. The latest loss was particularly hard to swallow, coming at home against the hated Raiders. The same Oakland team, it should be noted, who came out in their season opener looking more like an NCAA Division II cupcake than a team capable of winning games in the NFL. With those things in mind, you aren’t likely to find too many people looking for ways to compliment Kansas City Chiefs President and General Manager Carl Peterson these days. Brace yourselves, though, because in a roundabout way that’s exactly what I’m about to do. You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for. What do I mean by that? For the answer, let’s jump back a few months. Shortly after the NFL Draft, WPI’s own Nick Athan conducted an interview with Chiefs’ owner Clark Hunt. Here’s an excerpt from that piece: Ultimately, Hunt knows that he’s serving the fans. Can they endure another losing season while this year’s draft class matures? Hunt thinks so. "I do realize that in the short run, going with young players could have some shortcomings in terms of our performance on the field," he said. "But that’s OK. I think those guys will learn and our fans will enjoy watching those players develop." "What I’ve come to learn is that the fans are actually really studied. They’re really smart. It must be because there’s 24-hour news on the National Football League. It’s Warpaint Illustrated and all the cable channels that cover the NFL and the constant media attention and the internet. Fans have become very smart in terms of how championship teams are built, and I sense they understand what we’re doing and will support it." That certainly sounded good back in April. I imagine that a lot of the people who read those comments probably nodded in agreement and patted themselves on the back for being the smart, studied fans Clark said they were. But now, just two games into the regular season, many of those same fans – no doubt spurred on by the pot-stirring of those like KC Star Columnist Jason Whitlock – are demanding that Hunt take action. They want Peterson fired, they want Herm Edwards fired -- heck, they want both of them fired. Some even want Hunt to sell the team. They want whatever it takes in order to feel that change is on the horizon. Unfortunately, it seems safe to say that after two more losses Hunt’s comments about the patience of the fanbase was a bit optimistic. Everyone knew the Chiefs would be a bad team this year. Sure, there were a few cockeyed optimists who were predicting K.C. to shock the world and finish 9-7, but most understood that considerable growing pains were to be expected. And, echoing Hunt’s remarks, most fans said all the right things about rebuilding during OTAs and training camp. But as soon as the Chiefs began playing games again, something changed. It was even evident during the preseason. Perhaps some expected rebuilding to be a painless process that wouldn’t involve any sacrifice. Maybe they understood the Chiefs would lose some games, but figured every loss would be a moral victory in some way, and that rookies like Dorsey, Albert, and Flowers would all look like future Hall of Famers in the process. Or maybe a lot of fans just never had the stomach for it to begin with. “Not so”, they’ll undoubtedly say. “We were prepared for losing. But not like this. We weren’t prepared to lose because of the endless mistakes by Carl and the poor coaching from Herm. Get rid of ‘em!” That sounds good and all – but I don’t buy it. Why not? Because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard that excuse. Two years ago, the exact same cries were rising up from fans of the Green Bay Packers. The Pack went 4-12 in 2005, the team’s worst season in fourteen years. That offseason they brought in the unheralded Mike McCarthy as their new head coach and began rebuilding the team. The Packers traded away one of their top players (Javon Walker) and ended up with twelve draft picks, several of whom saw significant action as rookies. With the league’s youngest roster, Green Bay began the next season 1-4, starting things off with an embarrassing 26-0 loss in their home opener against a hated rival. Is this sounding familiar? It should. Don’t get me wrong, the Packers aren’t a perfect analogy to the Chiefs’ current situation – Green Bay, after all, already had a franchise QB in place with Brett Favre, and that alone makes a considerable difference. But as you can see, there are enough similarities to make it an interesting comparison. The Packers lost their first three home games that season, and their lone early victory came against the similarly winless Detroit Lions. Although they rebounded from their poor start and nearly got back to .500, they ultimately lost eight of their first twelve games and were sitting at 4-8 in early December. When the team was slow out of the gate, outraged Packers fans wasted little time in demanding that McCarthy and G.M. Ted Thompson be fired. The same cries for change referenced in that column continued throughout the season as the Packers struggled, suffering lopsided defeats at the hands of the Eagles, Patriots, Bills, and Jets. But the Packers pulled together in the final month and won four straight games to finish 8-8. A year later, still sticking to youth, Green Bay made their conference title game. Will Kansas City finish 8-8 this season? Will they be a Super Bowl contender next year? Probably not. As mentioned, the Chiefs don’t have a QB, and they also don’t have the benefit of playing in the weaker NFC. But the point of the comparison, as Packers’ fans learned, is that it’s foolish to judge so quickly. Chiefs’ fans can say they’re not being impatient with losses, that it’s the coaching and management they’re upset with. It just rings hollow. Any Packers fan who signed a petition to fire McCarthy and Thompson during the 2006 season would probably admit today that they overreacted. They recognize that their young team started to improve as they got more experience and developed chemistry with one another. No matter how the angry masses in Kansas City might want to justify their reactions, the simple truth is this: anyone who’s demanding sweeping changes in the Chiefs’ organization because a bad team played a bad game on Sunday wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. For that matter, anyone who wanted to see 35-year old Damon Huard trot back onto the field Sunday, rather than see 24-year old Tyler Thigpen get his opportunity, wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. And most of all, anyone who’s not willing to wait more than two games before declaring the rebuilding effort a failure wasn’t prepared for what was coming this season. So, no, I’m not buying that the reactions are all about Herm and Carl. And you know who else isn’t buying it? Carl Peterson. After all, judging by the reactions we’re seeing, Peterson had everyone pegged a long time ago. He’s been criticized by millions, myself included, for the strategy he’s executed all these years. Stock up on free agents every few seasons, never bother to develop a young quarterback when you can always acquire a veteran with experience, and do everything else possible to shoot for a season of eight or nine wins. And if you can make the playoffs, hey, anything can happen once you’re in the tournament. That’s been the Carl Peterson way, and the results speak for themselves. Sure, the Chiefs haven’t won a playoff game since Joe Montana was under center, but Arrowhead has still been filled to capacity year after year. Every December, no matter how mediocre the Chiefs were, the seats were always full and the stadium was always loud as long as there was some outside chance at a playoff berth. Contrast that to this year, when even after a highly-praised draft and one of those “moral victories” against the New England juggernaut, the openly rebuilding Chiefs – finally trying to build a championship team the right way – struggled to sell out their home opener against their biggest rival. While Hunt had reason for his view of how the fans would react to a rebuilding season, maybe Peterson’s view was a little more in line with reality. Perhaps he’s been more tuned-in to the fans than anyone ever thought he was. Maybe he knew that Chiefs fans just aren’t cut out for this rebuilding stuff. I just hope he’s not the sort of guy to say “I told you so."
Posts: 296,662

09-17-2008, 05:56 AM	#111
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-472950	We'll never see change in the offense because Herm is here, it's his offense. He then will fire the OC as the scapegoat, it's why he's had 5 of them in 7 years....a new guy comes in and it's the same offense.
Posts: 115,241

09-17-2008, 05:58 AM	#112
OnTheWarpath15 MVP Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2251115	Keep complaining, people. Then maybe, Herm will get his shit together, this team might gel, and we might win 4 games, giving Herm ANOTHER YEAR. Christ, people should be doing ****ing backflips over Herm's incompetence, he's signing his own death notice.
Posts: 60,746

09-17-2008, 06:02 AM	#115
Fire Me Boy! Cast Iron Jedi Join Date: Nov 2004 Casino cash: $9999900 VARSITY	Might want to edit the online version - "You see, if the Chiefs’ recent decent into also-ran status has shown us anything, it’s that Peterson may be a lot smarter than anyone’s been giving him credit for." I'm pretty sure he meant "recent descent".
Posts: 35,253

09-17-2008, 07:07 AM	#118
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $1616	Every good rebuild starts with losing to an incompetent floundering division rival in your home opener that got embarassed themselves the week before in THEIR home opener! Everything is going according to plan!
Posts: 106,583

09-17-2008, 07:32 AM	#119
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6674388	It's been a rebuild for three years. Herm came in and immediately made changes to the defense and special teams. He brought his own special teams coach. He implemented the cover 2 and brought over a host of NY Jets to try to get it done and focussed on defense in his drafts. The rebuild didn't begin this year. . __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,540