Herm defends run run pass punt - Page 4

Hammock Parties · 11-19-2007, 11:23 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/368858.html

Edwards defends conservative approach to offense

Given any other team’s offensive players, Herm Edwards might have tried harder to match Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts point for point.

Edwards is instead coaching the Chiefs, who are doing nothing consistently well when they’ve had the ball. That being the case, Edwards defended his decisions in Sunday’s 13-10 loss, saying the considerable offensive shortcomings leave him no realistic choice but to be what most fans consider ultra-conservative.

“There’s no room for error for us,” Edwards said Monday. “We have more three-and-outs than anybody in football. We have more negative plays than anybody in football. It’s hard playing that way. You put a lot of strain on the defense. So you’re trying to protect them, too. You don’t want your defense out there the whole game.

“Do I want to play that way? Heck, no. But we have to play that way. I’m trying to play the best way for the Chiefs to win the game.”

The subject obviously frustrated Edwards, who at times raised or lower his voice to make a point. He never wavered from his stance that an inability to make yards when running the ball or adequately protect the quarterback means the Chiefs are realistically squeezing every point possible from their offense.

“You have all of these great ideas that you want to use,” Edwards said. “There are a lot of things other teams are doing that we’d like to do. But we know what we are whether we like it or not. It’s been 10 weeks. You’re not going to all of a sudden evolve into something like New England. You’ve got to do what you feel you’re capable of doing.

“You know what you’re capable of doing and at the end of the day, you’re always trying to do things the players can be successful at. You can’t do things that won’t let your players be successful. You have to take some chances once in a while. I understand that. But there are (only) certain things we’re capable of doing.

“Would we like to do some different things? Sure. But you have to play to the strengths of your players. It looks like we’re conservative at times.

“We’re doing things in a way we feel we’re capable of doing them. As a staff, we’ve been with these players every day. We coach them every day. We know what they’re capable of doing. Whether everybody else believes that, it doesn’t matter. It might look conservative, but it’s a way of playing football that gives us the best opportunity to win.”

The Chiefs may have been able to squeeze more points near the end of the first half.

They took over at their 23 with 1 minute, 15 seconds and three timeouts left. The score was 3-3.

The Chiefs ran out the clock rather than try for points. Edwards ordered quarterback Brodie Croyle to hand the ball twice to Kolby Smith, once for 4 yards and the next for 5, rather than attempt a pass.

“We decided we were going to run the ball on the first play,” Edwards said. “If we got a first down, if we got 15 yards or so, then we were going to go for it. But that didn’t happen. And at that point I didn’t want to give (the Colts) momentum. They had two timeouts left. If we had taken almost no time off the clock with three incomplete passes and then we punted, we would have given the ball back to Peyton Manning with two timeouts.

“Then they get the ball back to start the third quarter. I’m not giving them two shots at me without us having even one. That makes no sense to me. I’m looking at all of that and saying, ‘Wait a minute.’ We survived the first half.

“Yeah, I was playing it conservative at that point. I guess people think we should take a chance because we were 14-point underdogs. But I’m trying to win the game. We were backed up. It was noisy. There were too many variables in that one.

“If I’m somebody else, then maybe I do it differently. But I know what I am right now.”

Against the Colts, Croyle made his first start in place of Damon Huard. Edwards made the change in part because of Croyle’s superior passing skills.

But the Chiefs declined to use those skills. His longest completion of the game was 19 yards, not counting the lateral on the game’s last play that gave him a statistical 21-yard gain.

Edwards indicated the Chiefs might try to throw more down the field in Sunday’s game against Oakland at Arrowhead Stadium.

“(The Colts) play a lot of cover 2,” Edwards said. “They’re not going to let you throw the ball down the field. They’ve only given up 10 plays of 20 yards passing. They don’t give up those plays.

“You’ll see the ball go down the field more against Oakland because they play more man to man. If we can get some one-on-one matchups we like, we’ll do it. That’s the next thing you try to do the next six weeks. This was his first game, and we had to get a feel for him emotionally and where he’s going to be. Now we can build on that.”

Hammock Parties · 11-20-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The difference in that game was simple....at the end even with an offense with half their backups forced into starting roles, they had the balls to try to win it, the Chiefs didn't.

BINGO!

**KcMizzou** · 11-20-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The difference in that game was simple....at the end even with an offense with half their backups forced into starting roles, they had the balls to try to win it, the Chiefs didn't.

Sadly, you're right.

chiefsfan987 · 11-20-2007, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GOATSE

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“Then they get the ball back to start the third quarter. I’m not giving them two shots at me without us having even one. That makes no sense to me. I’m looking at all of that and saying, ‘Wait a minute.’ We survived the first half.”

If Herm is so damned concerned about our opposition getting the ball on back to back possesions why doesn't he kick off in the first half when we win the toss? Its not like our offense is going to drive the ball anyways. Put your defense on the field and try to win the battle of field position. If you get behind which is what happens every week anyways at least you get the ball to start the second half.

KCJohnny · 11-20-2007, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zouk

What's pathetic is after having the Colts D on the field for 30 plus minutes by the 4th quarter, the Chiefs try a run on 1st and 10 on the final drive and lose 5 yards. They made Josh Thomas (Josh Thomas!) look like Jared Allen. Jason Dunn got demolished. It was stomach-turning.

Exactly. In warfare, we call it "situational awareness". Knowing where the enemy is and what the conditions are on the battlefield so that you can exploit opportunities for tactical advantage.

This was a tactical blunder as we played right into their strengths with a "play-not-to-lose" mentality that lost us the game.

Zouk · 11-20-2007, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Forgive me, you crazed loon, but I'll take Gonzo's opinion over anyone else's on this issue. Following your argument, we should just burn our uniforms and tell the league we're forfeiting the balance of our schedule because somebody on our team just might make an error.

FAX

I love Croyle - I want him to play. I just think expecting him to go into Indy where the Colts average giving up only 1 passing play of over 20 yards and get 2-3 interceptions or strip sacks a game and expecting him to light it up is unrealistic. Especially behind this O-line that nearly got him murdered in the 2nd quarter. Holthus is right - we played in the manner that gave us the best chance to win in overwhelmingly difficult surroundings. No one expected us to win, but we almost did by minimizing negative plays from our passing offense. It won't look like this when we're at home and playing against worse defenses.

tk13 · 11-20-2007, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Good to hear from you tk! Don't allow a few douchebags to run you off.

Nah, I'm not offended by anyone. The fun is getting sucked out of this place. I just think Carl Peterson has pretty much flushed the optimism out of the fanbase, I can't blame anybody for that. We're pretty much playing for the future and I just think it's pointless to spend 100 posts about running out the clock at the end of the first half.

I don't think everything Herm's done is perfect or close to it, but I think there are far more positive things going on in this rebuilding effort than people realize because everyone's brain has been turned to mush over "mediocrity" and all that. Like Croyle... I'm a huge fan of the guy... but I really think letting him get 8 more weeks of practice snaps has made him look a lot better than he did at the end of the preseason when he looked rattled. I think Herm handled it fairly well, but he'll never get credit for that.

Zouk · 11-20-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The difference in that game was simple....at the end even with an offense with half their backups forced into starting roles, they had the balls to try to win it, the Chiefs didn't.

They were without 3 starters, not half their offense. Manning, Addai, Wayne, and Clark is still plenty good. They were up 2 scores on the Pats a few weeks ago without Harrison too.

**DaFace** · 11-20-2007, 12:18 AM

One thing is clear: Herm will never be a popular coach. Regardless of whether he ends up winning a game here and there, his methods are absolutely maddening. I've never been as close to throwing something through my new HDTV as I was last weekend.

FAX · 11-20-2007, 12:21 AM

I have a serious question.

What other active coach in today's NFL is as conservative as Herm? I know a lot of people cite Martyball, but he's not active right now. Anyone else come to mind?

FAX

**Bugeater** · 11-20-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

One thing is clear: Herm will never be a popular coach. Regardless of whether he ends up winning a game here and there, his methods are absolutely maddening. I've never been as close to throwing something through my new HDTV as I was last weekend.

You need to get married and start a family so you can take your frustrations out on them. After all, their wounds will heal, but your TV sure as hell won't ever fix itself.

Mecca · 11-20-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zouk

They were without 3 starters, not half their offense. Manning, Addai, Wayne, and Clark is still plenty good. They were up 2 scores on the Pats a few weeks ago without Harrison too.

Uh.....they were missing so many WR's Thorpe was on the field as a starter.....half their Oline was down.....

When it flashed up and said Croyle 8 completions for 44 yards that's is sad....you don't have to throw it 50 yards but you should average close to 10 yards a completion.

Constantly throwing 2 yard passes to Bowe is not my idea of passing offense.

KCJohnny · 11-20-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I have a serious question.

What other active coach in today's NFL is as conservative as Herm? I know a lot of people cite Martyball, but he's not active right now. Anyone else come to mind?

FAX

Martyball looks like the GSoT compared to this offense.

Mecca · 11-20-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

I have a serious question.

What other active coach in today's NFL is as conservative as Herm? I know a lot of people cite Martyball, but he's not active right now. Anyone else come to mind?

FAX

Jack Del Rio is pretty conservative but I don't even think he's as bad as Herm....

Hammock Parties · 11-20-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

One thing is clear: Herm will never be a popular coach. Regardless of whether he ends up winning a game here and there, his methods are absolutely maddening. I've never been as close to throwing something through my new HDTV as I was last weekend.

Herm was winning some support by the bye week. It all came crashing down, though. Sad.

Hammock Parties · 11-20-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Jack Del Rio is pretty conservative but I don't even think he's as bad as Herm....

Jack Del Rio can afford to be more conservative. His running game rewards that philosophy.

Herm's doesn't. He should adjust. In fact, he was, until they put in Brodie. Then it was back to runrunpasspunt.

11-19-2007, 11:23 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $1020478	Herm defends run run pass punt http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/368858.html Edwards defends conservative approach to offense Given any other team’s offensive players, Herm Edwards might have tried harder to match Peyton Manning and the Indianapolis Colts point for point. Edwards is instead coaching the Chiefs, who are doing nothing consistently well when they’ve had the ball. That being the case, Edwards defended his decisions in Sunday’s 13-10 loss, saying the considerable offensive shortcomings leave him no realistic choice but to be what most fans consider ultra-conservative. “There’s no room for error for us,” Edwards said Monday. “We have more three-and-outs than anybody in football. We have more negative plays than anybody in football. It’s hard playing that way. You put a lot of strain on the defense. So you’re trying to protect them, too. You don’t want your defense out there the whole game. “Do I want to play that way? Heck, no. But we have to play that way. I’m trying to play the best way for the Chiefs to win the game.” The subject obviously frustrated Edwards, who at times raised or lower his voice to make a point. He never wavered from his stance that an inability to make yards when running the ball or adequately protect the quarterback means the Chiefs are realistically squeezing every point possible from their offense. “You have all of these great ideas that you want to use,” Edwards said. “There are a lot of things other teams are doing that we’d like to do. But we know what we are whether we like it or not. It’s been 10 weeks. You’re not going to all of a sudden evolve into something like New England. You’ve got to do what you feel you’re capable of doing. “You know what you’re capable of doing and at the end of the day, you’re always trying to do things the players can be successful at. You can’t do things that won’t let your players be successful. You have to take some chances once in a while. I understand that. But there are (only) certain things we’re capable of doing. “Would we like to do some different things? Sure. But you have to play to the strengths of your players. It looks like we’re conservative at times. “We’re doing things in a way we feel we’re capable of doing them. As a staff, we’ve been with these players every day. We coach them every day. We know what they’re capable of doing. Whether everybody else believes that, it doesn’t matter. It might look conservative, but it’s a way of playing football that gives us the best opportunity to win.” The Chiefs may have been able to squeeze more points near the end of the first half. They took over at their 23 with 1 minute, 15 seconds and three timeouts left. The score was 3-3. The Chiefs ran out the clock rather than try for points. Edwards ordered quarterback Brodie Croyle to hand the ball twice to Kolby Smith, once for 4 yards and the next for 5, rather than attempt a pass. “We decided we were going to run the ball on the first play,” Edwards said. “If we got a first down, if we got 15 yards or so, then we were going to go for it. But that didn’t happen. And at that point I didn’t want to give (the Colts) momentum. They had two timeouts left. If we had taken almost no time off the clock with three incomplete passes and then we punted, we would have given the ball back to Peyton Manning with two timeouts. “Then they get the ball back to start the third quarter. I’m not giving them two shots at me without us having even one. That makes no sense to me. I’m looking at all of that and saying, ‘Wait a minute.’ We survived the first half. “Yeah, I was playing it conservative at that point. I guess people think we should take a chance because we were 14-point underdogs. But I’m trying to win the game. We were backed up. It was noisy. There were too many variables in that one. “If I’m somebody else, then maybe I do it differently. But I know what I am right now.” Against the Colts, Croyle made his first start in place of Damon Huard. Edwards made the change in part because of Croyle’s superior passing skills. But the Chiefs declined to use those skills. His longest completion of the game was 19 yards, not counting the lateral on the game’s last play that gave him a statistical 21-yard gain. Edwards indicated the Chiefs might try to throw more down the field in Sunday’s game against Oakland at Arrowhead Stadium. “(The Colts) play a lot of cover 2,” Edwards said. “They’re not going to let you throw the ball down the field. They’ve only given up 10 plays of 20 yards passing. They don’t give up those plays. “You’ll see the ball go down the field more against Oakland because they play more man to man. If we can get some one-on-one matchups we like, we’ll do it. That’s the next thing you try to do the next six weeks. This was his first game, and we had to get a feel for him emotionally and where he’s going to be. Now we can build on that.”
Posts: 296,745

11-20-2007, 12:18 AM	#53
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $-1663101	One thing is clear: Herm will never be a popular coach. Regardless of whether he ends up winning a game here and there, his methods are absolutely maddening. I've never been as close to throwing something through my new HDTV as I was last weekend.
Posts: 53,124

11-20-2007, 12:21 AM	#54
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	I have a serious question. What other active coach in today's NFL is as conservative as Herm? I know a lot of people cite Martyball, but he's not active right now. Anyone else come to mind? FAX
Posts: 44,492