*****The Josh Simmons Thread*****

[Dante84]

More to come!

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— Patrick Mahomes II (@PatrickMahomes) April 25, 2025

Several teams agree: Josh Simmons had best tape of any OT last year. And they aren't very concerned with recovery on the torn patella tendon. More of the concern is maturity/character. But he's going to the ideal, veteran-laden place.

— Jeremy Fowler (@JFowlerESPN) April 25, 2025

the #chiefs get LT Josh Simmons out of Ohio State. If Simmons didn't suffer a torn patellar tendon he would have been the first tackle off the board. I had one team tell me he was the most athletic and talented tackle tape they watched. There are some maturity issues, but this…

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 25, 2025

The #Chiefs have selected #OSU OT Josh Simmons at No. 32, a player recovering nicely from a torn patellar tendon. They are comfortable with his rehab and did endless homework on it. https://t.co/awdb0JhPed

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) April 25, 2025

The #Chiefs are selecting Ohio State LT Josh Simmons at No. 32 to close out Round 1.

A key addition to bolster the offensive line in front of Patrick Mahomes. pic.twitter.com/oBx2CjzmCe

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) April 25, 2025

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

If I'm reading what I can find on the net correctly, Simmons had a different type of surgery than you would normally see with a complete patellar tendon tear.

If you have a link I would love to see that.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by BlackHelicopters

The CHIEFS took a home run swing. I hope they didn’t miss.

At Kauffman Stadium to deep center field....

[Deberg_1990]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Here's the top half of the first round in 2013. Fisher was a brilliant pick. Lane Johnson is the only guy you'd probably pick above him, and Johnson is a RT who played 16 games only three times in his career, which is less than Fisher even though Fisher retired three years ago.

Eric Fisher
Luke Joeckel
Dion Jordan
Lane Johnson
Ezekiel Ansah
Barkevious Mingo
Jonathan Cooper
Tavon Austin
Dee Milliner
Chance Warmack
D.J. Fluker
D.J. Hayden
Sheldon Richardson
Star Lotulelei
Kenny Vaccaro
EJ Manuel

Man, remember

Fischer or Joeckel?? Debates?

Joeckel, Joeckel Joeckel!!

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's been...math. It's history. It's been a combination of both.

"Well where'd you get YOUR degree?!?!"

It's odd that the sample size is too small to form a negative opinion.

But the sample size being 0, meaning there are no examples to give to support a positive opinion are somehow enough. What?

I think there's one example where the player played 7 years. Just one. So that's the best possible outcome. Half of those players were greatly diminished after the injury and nagging pain and swelling are almost always associated.

That's bad for an O lineman.

[kgrund]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

At Kauffman Stadium to deep center field....

At least the Royals are not the ones swinging the bat.

[DJ's left nut]

Oh, and Crow has offered a little physiology as to the makeup of the joint, the mechanics of the ligament and the biology of the healing process of a rupture and specifically how that may impact not just an athlete, but an offensive lineman.

I haven't -- I don't know anything about that (and haven't claimed to). He does. And has presented some bonafides. But he hasn't said that he's examined the medicals with Simmons. He's been completely forthright that this is merely a demonstrative example of the hurdles faced in Simmons recovery. And he's dovetailed that knowledge with the studies to explain WHY they may have come out the way they have. Or WHY this 'double graft' may not be relevant.

Y'all can just...ignore it. Fine - free country.

I've stayed away from the medical and gone to numbers and player evaluation. I've focused on the outcomes of the studies and why I don't think Simmons is the sort of blue chip prospect that would convince me to walk away from those. Why I don't think the reward is worth the risk. I've stayed in my lane. Do I have a scouting department? No -- but I've been right about these things more often than I've been wrong; I'm at worst batting .500 when I'm in direct opposition to a decision Veach has made. I've damn sure been right more often than most of the knuckle-draggers shaking my tree at the moment.

Y'all are welcome to give all that no weight. Or to give it weight and disagree anyway.
But you oughta at least be fair about what people are saying, their basis for saying it and why they've said it.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

I will applaud the consistency of this board on this player.

Most people who didn’t want him are sticking to that.

Most that deferred to the Chiefs are staying with that.

Most that wanted him are celebrating it.

I get kinda annoyed when someone just finds a way to love or hate something.

I didn’t want Simmons. I view the selection as a tad desperate and not an ideal strategy. Ultimately, it’s the draft, and if a guy plays well, the rationale doesn’t matter anymore.

And Simmons is here whether I wanted him or not. At some point the pads are going to come on, and it would greatly benefit the Chiefs if he’s a good starting LT.

So I’ll continue to engage in the intricacies of this player debate for a little while, and after a week or two, it’s time to root for his success and the success of the team.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rausch

It's odd that the sample size is too small to form a negative opinion.

But the sample size being 0, meaning there are no examples to give to support a positive opinion are somehow enough. What?

I think there's one example where the player played 7 years. Just one. So that's the best possible outcome. Half of those players were greatly diminished after the injury and nagging pain and swelling are almost always associated.

That's bad for an O lineman.

That's still better than Balto.

"Give me an example..."

{gives example}

"No, give me another..."

{provides entire dataset}

"yeah, but give me an example..."

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Nah - they trickled through the draft forum at some point.

Like I said -- I was already out, so I didn't give them any further thought. But they're out there. Nobody ever puts names on that shit, but several folks mentioned it and specifically articulated the concerns. I think it was Brugler's draft guide that had the most comprehensive take on them.

Then I stand corrected - someone mentioned them. Of the insane draft coverage I watched the last two weeks no one wanted to explain those takes. That tells me something. No one was willing to elaborate on those concerns and attach it to their name in most media.

We also see these types of rumors get spread to push a falling player even further down to benefit someone.

[SAGA45]

I'm good with the selection. The more he fell, the more it felt like am inevitability the Chiefs would take him.

If they've done their due diligence on his knee and came away more than satisfied with their findings, then that's good enough for me, especially Burkholder's seal of approval.

I'm just the glad they didn't trade up for him and instead got him plus a 5th after moving down a spot. Hard to argue against the value as it has the potential to be remembered as an absolute heist.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Rausch

The NFL only averages 2 of these injuries per year and there is no career to study in many cases.

You can't do a study on guys that played 10 years after this injury when it hasn't happened. The number is 0.

I’m also curious about if time heals all wounds. What if you gave an extra year to rehab? I imagine many of these players or teams were eager to get these guys playing. Rest is easier to justify for a rookie.

Also, niang is a caution but also a reason for optimism. It means we’re very experienced dealing with this. So we have a good idea of where he should be in rehab. Maybe we learned from experience ways we could have rehabbed niang better.

[Buehler445]

I'm not much of a draft guy, so the opportunity cost of all this I'm pretty murky on.

I'm fairly shocked they took the risk. Part of me thinks we're good enough at WR, QB obviously, Secondary. I don't like the first rounder on a RB (though I'm open to some of these kick ass prospects), LB or IOL (especially with all the IOL we currently have).

I think DE or DT (especially with some of these guys) is probably the better gamble. But I dunno much about the medicals or prospect. But I think I'd be jittery making the call.

So if he works out, it will be a steal of all ****ing steals. But this is definitely a risk. I'd be more than interested to know their risk assessment.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's still better than Balto.

"Give me an example..."

{gives example}

"No, give me another..."

{provides entire dataset}

"yeah, but give me an example..."

People rely on denial when the truth is too ugly to admit to. Not one type of people - all people. Any chance at a positive outcome is better than no chance even if that chance is imaginary.

[ForeverChiefs58]

2023: Simmons allowed 1 sack in 13 games with 443 pass blocking plays for buckeyes

2024: Simmons allowed 0 sacks and 1 pressure in 6 games with 158 pass blocking snaps before injury.

Top 10 pick before injury, chiefs believe he can be that again with pick 32 + 5th.

Best draft evah so far?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The study wasn't some random sample subject to a hypothesis and peer review. It's literally doctors looking at the entire population of NFL players who had the injury over more than 20 years and compiling that data. Then they presented the data to give you a meaningful resource on the effect of the injury on NFL players, not only as a whole, but by offense or defense, and skill or linemen.

If any of you actually took the time to read the paper for yourself, you'd see that. Instead of doing that, 15 of you decide to ask me to regurgitate the information and then you basically tell me to wipe my ass with it.

Well, I have. I hope the pick works out for the Chiefs, even if that data says it's unlikely.

But with that, I'm actually done contributing to this cesspool in any meaningful way. No more stats, no more player evals. It's not worth the time to give it to you.

What a disappointment for drama... I was expecting some huge haymakers or meltdowns with this kind of post, but outside of a couple of the usual ignorable reeruns, seems like this all stems from people trying having a pretty damn civil conversation?

I mean... yeah, the entire internet isn't going to agree all the time.