Trade whatever possible for a LT prospect

[RunKC]

I don’t care. If there’s a LT in this draft that they feel can be a good quality LT, do it.

I don’t care if it would cost three 1st rd picks. Mahomes is not gonna be this athletic for much longer.

It needs to happen

[kcbubb]

The chiefs will get to work him out and test his leg. The chiefs will get to see him move and test him. It’s not a complete roll of the dice here. You are undervaluing the medical testing. You don’t tear your patella tendon and be able to move like it’s healed when it’s still injured. The chiefs aren’t that stupid to know the history of these injuries and not evaluate the risk. Simmons has already worked out at his pro day. I’m sure they will test his movement again and see how well he does. Simmons has said that he will be ready by training camp. I’m not sure if the injury history that you’re looking at is for old or young players but the medical treatment for knee injuries has improved in the last decade and that’s about when Jimmy Graham was hurt, 2015. Plus Simmons is only 22. These young guys can heal up better. Look at Simmons move here. Simmons might be right. He might be ready by training camp!

https://youtube.com/shorts/_EHG-gpa2...H0zyoQ0ZVhNJw-

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I mean, I get it. But it just makes me super nervous.

I don't care if it's sound "now." Find me an NFL player who was ever the same after tearing it. I've tried. I can't.

You have some guys that have come back who become starters again, but there is literally not one I can find that was "the same."

No ****ing thanks.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

If they thought he was a long term LT, he'd not be playing LG.

He played left guard in one game basically. Until they open camp and he's the starter, I don't think you can just assume he's a LG.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

The chiefs will get to work him out and test his leg. The chiefs will get to see him move and test him. It’s not a complete roll of the dice here. You are undervaluing the medical testing. You don’t tear your patella tendon and be able to move like it’s healed when it’s still injured. The chiefs aren’t that stupid to know the history of these injuries and not evaluate the risk. Simmons has already worked out at his pro day. I’m sure they will test his movement again and see how well he does. Simmons has said that he will be ready by training camp. I’m not sure if the injury history that you’re looking at is for old or young players but the medical treatment for knee injuries has improved in the last decade and that’s about when Jimmy Graham was hurt, 2015. Plus Simmons is only 22. These young guys can heal up better. Look at Simmons move here. Simmons might be right. He might be ready by training camp!

https://youtube.com/shorts/_EHG-gpa2...H0zyoQ0ZVhNJw-

Once again, you just don't understand the nature of his injury. It's healed. He's not going to show signs of injury in his evals.

The problem is that this injury, when it heals, often leaves the player "less" than what he was. You CANNOT ascertain that in workouts. You will only know once he enters a real game and by then it's too late.

Josh Simmons should be taken off the board unless he falls, falls, falls.

[kcbubb]

Agree to disagree. I trust the medical evaluation that the chiefs have in place. And pace is not a fair comp. Pace was the number overall pick in 1997 and a HOF player. Just in terms of value and projection (not a ceiling or floor analysis), Simmons probably does compare to Paris Johnson who was the 6th overall pick in 2023. I’m hoping that Simmons will be more successful than Paris but the point I’m making is the value. What would it cost to move from 31 to 6? I’m guessing three 1st round picks if not more. So, the point is getting a CHANCE at a long term LT like Simmons or Paris would cost us three 1st round picks. The payoff for hitting on a 1st round LT at the back of the first on a cheap 5 year contract is like winning the lottery. The reward is huge on the risk/reward analysis.

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

You don't, though.

You don't have to take this chance. This guy isn't an Orlando Pace-level talent who is falling because of questionable medicals.

He would only have been a top 10 talent in this draft because it's a weak LT draft.

It's an enormous risk. Try to find an NFL player who was the same after this injury. You won't. He doesn't exist.

Taking huge swings like this is one of the quickest ways to short-circuit your program.

[T-post Tom]

Don't like a 300+ lineman coming off that injury. Anything is possible, but I'm guessing J. Simmons will go in the 2nd round.

[kcbubb]

Agreed. I don’t but the chiefs do understand this injury and the risk, if they trade up for Simmons or just take him at 31, I’ll trust that & understand the risk and I’ll be excited. If they pass on Simmons, I get it also.

Don’t forget that Mims was taken at 19 last year and had a terrible injury history and missed time in his first year. I think Mims only started in like 8 games in college and got picked that high because of that huge reward of hitting on a long term franchise tackle.

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Once again, you just don't understand the nature of his injury. It's healed. He's not going to show signs of injury in his evals.

The problem is that this injury, when it heals, often leaves the player "less" than what he was. You CANNOT ascertain that in workouts. You will only know once he enters a real game and by then it's too late.

Josh Simmons should be taken off the board unless he falls, falls, falls.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Agree to disagree. I trust the medical evaluation that the chiefs have in place. And pace is not a fair comp. Pace was the number overall pick in 1997 and a HOF player. Just in terms of value and projection (not a ceiling or floor analysis), Simmons probably does compare to Paris Johnson who was the 6th overall pick in 2023. I’m hoping that Simmons will be more successful than Paris but the point I’m making is the value. What would it cost to move from 31 to 6? I’m guessing three 1st round picks if not more. So, the point is getting a CHANCE at a long term LT like Simmons or Paris would cost us three 1st round picks. The payoff for hitting on a 1st round LT at the back of the first on a cheap 5 year contract is like winning the lottery. The reward is huge on the risk/reward analysis.

Medical evaluations won't identify anything. How do you not understand this? Do you just not want to hear the truth?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Agreed. I don’t but the chiefs do understand this injury and the risk, if they trade up for Simmons or just take him at 31, I’ll trust that & understand the risk and I’ll be excited. If they pass on Simmons, I get it also.

Don’t forget that Mims was taken at 19 last year and had a terrible injury history and missed time in his first year. I think Mims only started in like 8 games in college and got picked that high because of that huge reward of hitting on a long term franchise tackle.

You can't compare him to Mims. The injuries aren't the same.

[kcbubb]

Let’s just see what happens. This will be fun to come back to. You might be right.

[kcbubb]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

You can't compare him to Mims. The injuries aren't the same.

Agreed but Simmons has 3 seasons of starting experience to look at. Mims had very little tape to watch. And couldn’t get healthy enough to start more than like 8 games. So, it’s not the same injury but Mims injury history wasn’t ideal. I just trust the medical staff and if they take a chance, I’ll be excited plus I think we can get a talented contributor for dline with the 2nd pick. Let’s just drop it. We can agree to disagree and argue about something else.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Agree to disagree. I trust the medical evaluation that the chiefs have in place. And pace is not a fair comp. Pace was the number overall pick in 1997 and a HOF player. Just in terms of value and projection (not a ceiling or floor analysis), Simmons probably does compare to Paris Johnson who was the 6th overall pick in 2023. I’m hoping that Simmons will be more successful than Paris but the point I’m making is the value. What would it cost to move from 31 to 6? I’m guessing three 1st round picks if not more. So, the point is getting a CHANCE at a long term LT like Simmons or Paris would cost us three 1st round picks. The payoff for hitting on a 1st round LT at the back of the first on a cheap 5 year contract is like winning the lottery. The reward is huge on the risk/reward analysis.

Paris Johnson just isn't the feather in your cap you think it is.

A) I think (and thought at the time) that Paris Johnson was overdrafted. That said, in a similar (read: not particularly good) draft for OTs he was a guy that would've been in the mix for the best OL in that draft along with Skoronsi, Wright, Jones and Harrison -- similar to this season w/ Simmons if you presume health. But ultimately, Johnson should've gone nearer 12-15. Which is to say that yes, they may be comparable prospects, but to say that makes Simmons a "6th overall value" is just wrong. Johnson was an overdraft at the time and has proven to be since.

B) NONE of 'em have been very good. The best one had to move inside to OG to find traction in Tennessee. That was a draft full of 'Offensive Tackles' who profiled better at guard and full of guys with limited ceilings/traits. It's turned out exactly as it looked like would and provides a cautionary tale rather than a blueprint as we approach the 2025 draft.

C) Paris Johnson didn't have the injury risk and had a better pedigree along with better track record and more standout physical tools.

"Man, what if he's healthy and is another Paris Johnson" isn't the win you think it is, IMO. And as previously noted, that's the same system that Simmons would be coming from but without the track record, traits, pedigree or accolades that Johnson earned in that same system. There is very little cause to believe he'd be even as good as Johnson.

And that's IF he's healthy.

[xztop123]

Simmons has more upside than Ceh? Ceh short circuited us?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by kcbubb

Agree to disagree. I trust the medical evaluation that the chiefs have in place. And pace is not a fair comp. Pace was the number overall pick in 1997 and a HOF player. Just in terms of value and projection (not a ceiling or floor analysis), Simmons probably does compare to Paris Johnson who was the 6th overall pick in 2023. I’m hoping that Simmons will be more successful than Paris but the point I’m making is the value. What would it cost to move from 31 to 6? I’m guessing three 1st round picks if not more. So, the point is getting a CHANCE at a long term LT like Simmons or Paris would cost us three 1st round picks. The payoff for hitting on a 1st round LT at the back of the first on a cheap 5 year contract is like winning the lottery. The reward is huge on the risk/reward analysis.

Sure, the reward is big. The risk is higher.

Yes, they can evaluate the knee now and see if it's sound, examine the scans, see what things are looking like inside the knee, and things like that.

But they can't evaluate from workouts in shorts and t-shirts ... how much of his former level of ability and explosiveness has been regained. And the history on this is TERRIBLE. Historical and recent.

Jack Conklin tore his patellar tendon in 2021 and (1) hasn't been the same since, even after being cleared medically (2) has had a bunch of other lower-body injuries. Niang had this injury and hasn't ever looked remotely like the guy he was before it.

The outlook sucks.

If the Chiefs take him, I'll hold my breath and cross my fingers and hope it works out. But I sure as shit don't think it's a slam dunk, Einstein move. And I wouldn't take the risk.

[New World Order]

I want to draft the next Jonathan Ogden.

Maybe Willie Roaf.

[Delano]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Sure, the reward is big. The risk is higher.

Yes, they can evaluate the knee now and see if it's sound, examine the scans, see what things are looking like inside the knee, and things like that.

But they can't evaluate from workouts in shorts and t-shirts ... how much of his former level of ability and explosiveness has been regained. And the history on this is TERRIBLE. Historical and recent.

Jack Conklin tore his patellar tendon in 2021 and (1) hasn't been the same since, even after being cleared medically (2) has had a bunch of other lower-body injuries. Niang had this injury and hasn't ever looked remotely like the guy he was before it.

The outlook sucks.

If the Chiefs take him, I'll hold my breath and cross my fingers and hope it works out. But I sure as shit don't think it's a slam dunk, Einstein move. And I wouldn't take the risk.

The experience with Niang will inform KC’s moves. You’re kind of discounting medical science, physical therapy and function testing if you honestly think they’re blind to what the probable outcome will be.