Let's talk about the 49ers (Super Bowl Edition)

[TLO]

Discuss.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

The bigger difference is their current secondary vs. that 2019 version. And of course coaching.

Lot of wide open receivers for Green Bay and Detroit against that Niner secondary. Saleh is definitely the better coach than Wilks. That said, the Chiefs receiving group is much worse this season compared to the first Super Bowl against the Niners.

But the other thing is Mahomes is way more experienced now, which is very helpful on the big stage. I don't think he is gonna put the ball in harm's way like he did on those 2 INT's last time. We gotta hope there are no silly bobble ball INT's like we've seen with Toney this season.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper

I was torn on that.

The 2022 Eagles were very talented but ultimately overrated and mentally soft. They faced Daniel Jones in their first playoff game, followed by McCaffrey at QB when Purdy got hurt. ZERO adversity going into the SB. One of the easiest roads you'll see a team have. No wonder they folded in 2023 when they were challenged.

To be fair, I wouldn't say Philly folded. Jalen Hurts led them on a "gotta have it" touchdown drive with a 2 point conversion to tie the game at 35-35. The Eagles could have totally given up when they got down by 8 points, but they forced KC to earn it with one final drive at the end.

[Bl00dyBizkitz]

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper

I was torn on that.

The 2022 Eagles were very talented but ultimately overrated and mentally soft. They faced Daniel Jones in their first playoff game, followed by McCaffrey at QB when Purdy got hurt. ZERO adversity going into the SB. One of the easiest roads you'll see a team have. No wonder they folded in 2023 when they were challenged.

My definition of folding might be different. What the Lions just did is folding. Completely falling apart, can't execute, poor coaching decisions.

The Eagles still moved the ball on us, we made just enough adjustments on defense to limit 2 drives to a field goal and a 3-and-out. And they still tied it up even after losing the lead. They had some fight in them.

I won't believe these Niners are on that level until Brock Purdy can do some damage against this Spags defense.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Just curious where everyone ranks this 49ers team to the 3 we've played in our other Super Bowls? Think I'd go...

1. 2020 Bucs
2. 2022 Eagles
3. 2019 49ers
4. 2023 49ers

49ers offense is better than the first one we played most bc CMC/Aiyuk>Mostert/Sanders but their defense is much worse than that versions.

1. 2022 Eagles
2. 2022 Bucs
3. 2019 49ers
4. 2023 49ers



Madden rankings time (Offense/Defense/STs)!

Eagles -- 92/94/90: 92 overall
Bucs -- 90/93/89: 91 overall
2019 49ers -- 85/94/90: 89 overall
2023 49ers -- 90/85/88: 88 overall

2023 Chiefs -- 88/95/91; 91 overall

[Why Not?]

Originally Posted by Gary Cooper

I didn't ignore it. That part is a given. Most would agree the rosters are inverted. The current 49ers have more weapons offensively. The O-line isn't as good but they have playmakers all over the field. Their 4th best weapon this season is Samuel. Meanwhile, the 2019 team had a much better defense. They're both good teams, just with different strengths.

You're making fair points. I just think that some (most?) of the adversity they fought through was created by the guy at the most important position in sports. Now, all credit to Purdy for what he did in the second half of both games, but the Packers and Lions hardly have the 85 Bears defense. If he gets "bright lighted" in the first half or just Spags schemes the hell out of him, he's not coming back like that this game.

[Why Not?]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

1. 2022 Eagles
2. 2022 Bucs
3. 2019 49ers
4. 2023 49ers



Madden rankings time (Offense/Defense/STs)!

Eagles -- 92/94/90: 92 overall
Bucs -- 90/93/89: 91 overall
2019 49ers -- 85/94/90: 89 overall
2023 49ers -- 90/85/88: 88 overall

2023 Chiefs -- 88/95/91; 91 overall

That's as good a way to rank them as any.

[LagunaSWana]

An area of strength for the 49ers and an area of weakness for the Chiefs is something that concerns me, and that is their ability to throw to their running backs out of the backfield. This is something that has burned the Chiefs all year, and a specific area that I am sure Spags is working on for the SB. McCaffree and Deebo are monsters catching it out of the backfield, so we'll need our LBs and secondary to be put in a position to succeed on these plays.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

The bigger difference is their current secondary vs. that 2019 version. And of course coaching.

That's a good point. They had two really good safeties who could cover and tackle and cover a lot of ground, a not-peak-but-still-good Richard Sherman, and a really good nicke (KJuan Williams, I think).

Compare that to this squad, that basically has... Charvarious Ward.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by LagunaSWana

An area of strength for the 49ers and an area of weakness for the Chiefs is something that concerns me, and that is their ability to throw to their running backs out of the backfield. This is something that has burned the Chiefs all year, and a specific area that I am sure Spags is working on for the SB. McCaffree and Deebo are monsters catching it out of the backfield, so we'll need our LBs and secondary to be put in a position to succeed on these plays.

Agreed. Niner weapons are very impressive. You basically have 4 weapons in two guys with Deebo & McCaff. Each of them are 2 weapons in one body. Throw in Kittle, Aiyuk, and Juszczyk. Very hard to stop these guys.

The positive is that it looks like this Niner defense is way more vulnerable than the one KC played in Super Bowl 54. Mahomes and the KC offense will need to bring their A+ game and be ready for a big time shootout if Spags is not able to work his magic this time around.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

That's a good point. They had two really good safeties who could cover and tackle and cover a lot of ground, a not-peak-but-still-good Richard Sherman, and a really good nicke (KJuan Williams, I think).

Compare that to this squad, that basically has... Charvarious Ward.

Right.

As we've both said a dozen times over - Styles make fights.

I think the 2019 49ers had strengths/weaknesses that were better suited to give us trouble than this team does. The depth of their DL made pass protection really difficult and that served to mitigate the impact of Hill. Once Hill's impact was mitigated a bit (until...well, you know) their solid but unspectacular secondary wasn't ever really tested.

Once we tested it, it started to fall apart. Once the DL got a little tired, we hit shot plays to Hill and Sammy. But you saw how that team was designed to function for the first 3+ quarters of that game and it worked WELL.

This team, while weaker at OT (stronger at IOL) isn't facing as deep a pass rush from SF. And as such, protection should hold up better. We may not get that shot play to Hill, but we may, because of the time in the pocket, get a couple more of those plays like we had to Watkins.

Defensively our secondary then was nowhere near as good as our secondary now. But they didn't have the weapons then that they have no. Or the experience. I think by the same token as above, however, they'll struggle more in pass pro than they did in 2019. They have a couple real problem areas on that OL. That may help mitigate their gains with the skill position players and completely offset them when you consider our improvement in the defensive backfield.

So at that point the major difference makers on their offense are Purdy vs. Grapes and CMC vs. RBBC.

I just think we're a little better suited this time around than we were last time. Last time we needed to outcoach them to win. This time they'll need to outcoach us to win. On paper, I think we have the better squad.

[Back to Back Champ]

The 49ers defense didn't face that many offenses who stuck with the running game. Even the Lions got away from the run in the second half, when they were dominating in the trenches in the first half. The Arizona Cardinals stuck with the run in week 15, and they rushed for 234 yards. If the Lions had stuck with the run, they may have rushed for 300 yards or more .

Andy Reid will run, run and run some more.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Right.

As we've both said a dozen times over - Styles make fights.

I think the 2019 49ers had strengths/weaknesses that were better suited to give us trouble than this team does. The depth of their DL made pass protection really difficult and that served to mitigate the impact of Hill. Once Hill's impact was mitigated a bit (until...well, you know) their solid but unspectacular secondary wasn't ever really tested.

Once we tested it, it started to fall apart. Once the DL got a little tired, we hit shot plays to Hill and Sammy. But you saw how that team was designed to function for the first 3+ quarters of that game and it worked WELL.

This team, while weaker at OT (stronger at IOL) isn't facing as deep a pass rush from SF. And as such, protection should hold up better. We may not get that shot play to Hill, but we may, because of the time in the pocket, get a couple more of those plays like we had to Watkins.

Defensively our secondary then was nowhere near as good as our secondary now. But they didn't have the weapons then that they have no. Or the experience. I think by the same token as above, however, they'll struggle more in pass pro than they did in 2019. They have a couple real problem areas on that OL. That may help mitigate their gains with the skill position players and completely offset them when you consider our improvement in the defensive backfield.

So at that point the major difference makers on their offense are Purdy vs. Grapes and CMC vs. RBBC.

I just think we're a little better suited this time around than we were last time. Last time we needed to outcoach them to win. This time they'll need to outcoach us to win. On paper, I think we have the better squad.

If you notice in the change in these teams just look back to last year where this offense ass raped the 49ers.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Right.

As we've both said a dozen times over - Styles make fights.

I think the 2019 49ers had strengths/weaknesses that were better suited to give us trouble than this team does. The depth of their DL made pass protection really difficult and that served to mitigate the impact of Hill. Once Hill's impact was mitigated a bit (until...well, you know) their solid but unspectacular secondary wasn't ever really tested.

Once we tested it, it started to fall apart. Once the DL got a little tired, we hit shot plays to Hill and Sammy. But you saw how that team was designed to function for the first 3+ quarters of that game and it worked WELL.

This team, while weaker at OT (stronger at IOL) isn't facing as deep a pass rush from SF. And as such, protection should hold up better. We may not get that shot play to Hill, but we may, because of the time in the pocket, get a couple more of those plays like we had to Watkins.

Defensively our secondary then was nowhere near as good as our secondary now. But they didn't have the weapons then that they have no. Or the experience. I think by the same token as above, however, they'll struggle more in pass pro than they did in 2019. They have a couple real problem areas on that OL. That may help mitigate their gains with the skill position players and completely offset them when you consider our improvement in the defensive backfield.

So at that point the major difference makers on their offense are Purdy vs. Grapes and CMC vs. RBBC.

I just think we're a little better suited this time around than we were last time. Last time we needed to outcoach them to win. This time they'll need to outcoach us to win. On paper, I think we have the better squad.

I think the biggest change from our team in the first SB to this one is the LB's. And that's a huge advantage against the Shannahan offense.

Over and over again Shannahan ran reverses and sharp cut zone blocking runs bc Hitchens and Ragland were flat footed slow LB's who could never cut off angles or be fast enough to get to the hole in time.

Tranquill, Bolton and Chenal are a major upgrade in speed there. I also think Willie Gay will play with 2 weeks of rest and a cat that athletic added to those 3 might comprise of the best LB unit in football.

[Back to Back Champ]

Our Defence is playing better than mid season. The main thing I've seen so far is turning the linebackers loose to attack downhill faster. The defensive line finally started to control the other teams offensive line. And much more man coverage, as well

[Back to Back Champ]

Niners arent even the best team in the NFC. Just lucky to have played two home games in playoffs and fall in.

They are falling apart quicker than the Philadelphia Eagles.

We will average 6-8 yards a play v the 49ers in this Superbowl.