****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[UChieffyBugger]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

He’s been worse than last year with a similar caliber of WRs.

Can we acknowledge that? It hardly means he’s been bad - he’s still a top 3-5 QB and doesn’t always need to be at MVP level - but it’s entirely possible his playing at that level last year elevated the group and gave hope to Veach, etc that he could do it again.

But what about the fact that KC have the most drops in the league? Poor drops lead to two losses and the drops have diluted his stats in the process. Imo he could easily have six more td's and three-hundred more yards but for his receivers messing up.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Originally Posted by UChieffyBugger

But what about the fact that KC have the most drops in the league? Poor drops lead to two losses and the drops have diluted his stats in the process. Imo he could easily have six more td's and three-hundred more yards but for his receivers messing up.

That would put him as the front runner for MVP as well. The Chiefs have paid for rolling the dice on unproven weapons. They still have time to make up for it however and I think they're headed in the right direction. Football season has only just begun for contending teams.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Enlighten us why Justin Watson would get 11 targets in the biggest game of the year as if he was a prime Megatron or Julio Jones?!


Also explain not only the volume but the importance of the downs he was thrown at. On 3rd and 3 or 4 in the 4th quarter with the Chiefs needing a TD and score to pull away Justin Watson was the primary read on that game critical 3rd down. And he ran a short slant! You think Rice can't run that? No need for a veteran journeyman there but they trusted Watson more there. Watson of course dropped that pass but that didn't stop him from finding more ways to drop the ball later, such as 4th and 25 with the game on the line again.

Now of course Rice had a great game last weeks and was targeted more as almost everyone here wanted, including myself.

But one game is way too early to declare it's done, he's the one. I think he should be. You think he should be. I think he WILL BE. But realistically we need to see more. Especially because the Eagles game didn't happen first month of the season, it happened just recently AFTER they had 2 weeks to fix the offense and the solution was more Justin Watson.

You of all people should know this since you declared Rice was the #1 WR 7 or 8 games ago when he was not in fact getting the most snaps or the most targets.

I wish for it too. But wishes don't make it so.


And then let's say we do all that and Rice gets that role and is fed again and again. He still needs to produce and we will see other teams bring more attention to him.

In any case, I hope they do keep feeding Rice because the only WRs I see as possible difference makers in a big game are Rice and the always injured Toney.

You think Mahomes lines up and throws it to a specific player regardless of coverage or the routes run against said coverage?

If Watson got targets, it was due to him running the routes that Mahomes felt best about on those particular plays against those specific coverage situations.

And drops aside, Mahomes tends to feel pretty good about Watson being where he's supposed to be.

I seriously doubt that Andy and company went into the game with the plan to really feed Justin Watson.

You guys are just like...hell-bent on a narrative and have long since abandoned any reason.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Great, then you can explain to me why 2 weeks ago in the biggest game of the year the KC coaching staff believed the #1 WR on the team was Justin Watson.

Let's hear it.

I don't believe this coaching staff thinks that. Rice is our replacement for juju. Just because the numbers didn't bear that out in November doesn't change that. This season the goal was and is for Rice to be jujus replacement.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

He’s been worse than last year with a similar caliber of WRs.

Can we acknowledge that? It hardly means he’s been bad - he’s still a top 3-5 QB and doesn’t always need to be at MVP level - but it’s entirely possible his playing at that level last year elevated the group and gave hope to Veach, etc that he could do it again.

Yes, mahomes has been worse. As has reid and kelce. It’s also ok to get why veach did what he did while also acknowledging he made a forgivable mistake.

It may seem to some that WR critics are anti chiefs. It just strikes me as odd how casually these people shrug off lobbing everyone under the bus from mahomes to kelce (aging, maybe he’s distracted) to fire embree to Nagy is a shit playcaller and EB who we hated before now needs to come back… none of this shit gets challenged even as they ramp that narrative up a notch. While there’s truth to plenty of the above some of us believe those issues are rooted in bad WRs. And some of us believe a lot of this criticism is deflecting blame and it seems to come strongest from those who defend to the death that our WRs are just a piece of the problem instead of the main dish.

mahomes gets the benefit of the doubt. Burrow is an elite qb. When he doesn’t like what he sees he just chucks it up to Chase. Mahomes cant do that (hopefully as rice improves, he finally can). Other QBs can throw to a spot and know their WR will get there. We keep asking mahomes to do that and yet when he does, that spot is the wrong spot because the WR made a dumb route or catch adjustment, and when they do get to the ball they drop it. Mahomes stares down kelce because he’s the only one he can anticipate open because he can actually read the defenss.. Kelce could easily still be kelce if the entire defense wasn’t collapsing on him. We’re not even talking about WRs elevating these guys. We’re just talking about all the things these guys can’t do because a few guys on offense just aren’t good. Sorry if that makes me a pessimist that I believe the simple step of putting competent (even if unspectacular) talent around them is a way more reasonable fix than asking why these guys make mistakes while carrying around a 600 lb backpack.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You think Mahomes lines up and throws it to a specific player regardless of coverage or the routes run against said coverage?

If Watson got targets, it was due to him running the routes that Mahomes felt best about on those particular plays against those specific coverage situations.

And drops aside, Mahomes tends to feel pretty good about Watson being where he's supposed to be.

I seriously doubt that Andy and company went into the game with the plan to really feed Justin Watson.

You guys are just like...hell-bent on a narrative and have long since abandoned any reason.

I don’t think Andy dialed up plays for Watson. but defenses can funnel attention to certain players. The eagles were committed to cutting off kelce and our short passing game. When Pacheco started gashing them they committed to cutting him off too. Watson was wide open in the end zone of that INT because the defense was harassing the shit out of kelce while Watson roamed free

Versus the raiders we were intentionally funneling plays to our big 3. And maybe creative play design allows us to. Unlike Watson we were intentionally feeding rashee. But the raiders also kinda let us. Where Philly wanted to take away everything in front of them, Vegas didn’t. They also weren’t really trying to take kelce away and giving kelce an inch is giving our offense a mile.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yes, mahomes has been worse. As has reid and kelce. It’s also ok to get why veach did what he did while also acknowledging he made a forgivable mistake.

It may seem to some that WR critics are anti chiefs. It just strikes me as odd how casually these people shrug off lobbing everyone under the bus from mahomes to kelce (aging, maybe he’s distracted) to fire embree to Nagy is a shit playcaller and EB who we hated before now needs to come back… none of this shit gets challenged even as they ramp that narrative up a notch.

What does this even mean? Who in this thread is throwing these people under the bus? Acknowledging that Mahomes might not be playing at the same level as last year isn’t throwing him under the bus; it’s having an actual conversation about what’s really happening. And I for one haven’t made the slightest mention of Nagy or Embree and I don’t think you’ll find many others in this thread here who have challenged you doing that either.

But people are trying to find blame. It’s what fans do. Butker misses some FGs? Blame him. Then blame Toub. Then blame Townsend. It’s the nature of the beast.

And finally, Veach made a mistake? Seriously? The season isn’t even ****ing over and we control our own destiny for the 1 seed. His process was fine. The results are the results.

If we lose in the playoffs and it’s clearly on the WRs, then by all means, then maybe you can justifiably make that statement.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t think Andy dialed up plays for Watson. but defenses can funnel attention to certain players. The eagles were committed to cutting off kelce and our short passing game. When Pacheco started gashing them they committed to cutting him off too. Watson was wide open in the end zone of that INT because the defense was harassing the shit out of kelce while Watson roamed free

Versus the raiders we were intentionally funneling plays to our big 3. And maybe creative play design allows us to. Unlike Watson we were intentionally feeding rashee. But the raiders also kinda let us. Where Philly wanted to take away everything in front of them, Vegas didn’t. They also weren’t really trying to take kelce away and giving kelce an inch is giving our offense a mile.

You had it in your first paragraph, and then you half talked yourself out of it in your second. And then the back half of THAT paragraph, you almost talked yourself back into it.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

What does this even mean? Who in this thread is throwing these people under the bus? Acknowledging that Mahomes might not be playing at the same level as last year isn’t throwing him under the bus; it’s having an actual conversation about what’s really happening. And I for one haven’t made the slightest mention of Nagy or Embree and I don’t think you’ll find many others in this thread here who have challenged you doing that either.

But people are trying to find blame. It’s what fans do. Butker misses some FGs? Blame him. Then blame Toub. Then blame Townsend. It’s the nature of the beast.

And finally, Veach made a mistake? Seriously? The season isn’t even ****ing over and we control our own destiny for the 1 seed. His process was fine. The results are the results.

If we lose in the playoffs and it’s clearly on the WRs, then by all means, then maybe you can justifiably make that statement.

It's the rush to blame and condemn.

If, after the first game of the season, you were posting what would become a mega thread that -These WR's SUCK and that Veach made a huge mistake, then you were way, way premature.

If, after the Eagles game, you wanted to say- Man, this does not look good, I don't blame you. Hell, nobody was more on board with this plan than me, and I was feeling pretty lousy about where things stood.

Now, after the Raiders game, if you're feeling more optimistic, I think that's entirely reasonable. Your young players are SUPPOSED to get better. Bummer that Moore doesn't really seem to have done so. So it's to be Rice. Okay.

He won't have 100 yards EVERY game, but he's shown he's now capable.

Veach's task every season is to put a championship caliber roster together. He's done it every year, and in different ways. This year he's put a hell of a defense together to lean on while the young WR corps found it's way. KC controls it's own destiny for the #1 seed. The overall plan is working.

Any declaration of failure is still very, very premature.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

What does this even mean? Who in this thread is throwing these people under the bus? Acknowledging that Mahomes might not be playing at the same level as last year isn’t throwing him under the bus; it’s having an actual conversation about what’s really happening. And I for one haven’t made the slightest mention of Nagy or Embree and I don’t think you’ll find many others in this thread here who have challenged you doing that either.

But people are trying to find blame. It’s what fans do. Butker misses some FGs? Blame him. Then blame Toub. Then blame Townsend. It’s the nature of the beast.

And finally, Veach made a mistake? Seriously? The season isn’t even ****ing over and we control our own destiny for the 1 seed. His process was fine. The results are the results.

If we lose in the playoffs and it’s clearly on the WRs, then by all means, then maybe you can justifiably make that statement.

No I don’t put you in the same camp. I don’t see you participating in the criticism and can respect that too much of it bothers you. But there is another camp that’s been hell bent on a narrative that we had a great wr strategy going into the season and that anyone who disagreed is a dipshit. Now that there’s pretty widespread agreement that most of these WRs aren’t actually any good, rather than admit they had the wrong read and that maybe people like me were kinda right about it, we hear a bunch of blame deflecting.

And because wr critics were branded as cynics and everyone else pro veach, I think they’ve slipped a lot of this under your nose. That while some of the blame on mahomes and kelce is deserved, there is an added notch of criticism that is intended to make WRs look less bad by making other players like mahomes look much worse. You may not participate in the nagy or embree hate threads, but I also don’t see many people defending them either. You say we will always find blame. I’m just pointing out that both sides are doing it and it doesn’t make it less cynical just because one side is choosing to spread the blame to multiple groups

Yes, veach made a mistake. But it is one mistake surrounded by an otherwise brilliant roster construction and we still have a great shot at winning it all. We’d be downright unstoppable if we had addressed the issue, but we’re still damn good. I have tremendous trust in Reid to make it work while also wishing we had done better. Just because we made a mistake doesn’t mean it’s a fatal one. We adapt for now and we fix it later. No sweat.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You had it in your first paragraph, and then you half talked yourself out of it in your second. And then the back half of THAT paragraph, you almost talked yourself back into it.

There is always a dance between us dictating where the offense wants to go and also taking what the defense gives us. The defense wants to take something away, we’ll target something else. If that something else don’t stick, then we get stuck. The hope is at some point there are too many things to focus on that the offense can pick their poison.

And we haven’t been there yet consistently which is why we’ve had our share of struggles past the initial script. I don’t think we drew up plays for Justin Watson but the eagles funneled plays to him by taking everything else away. Against the raiders on the other hand the chiefs were very intentionally funneling plays to the big 3. And the raiders didn’t adapt much so we kept attacking with that formula.

Did we unlock something by finding new ways to get Pacheco and rice involved in the passing game that allows us now to pick our poison? I don’t know but I hope so. I also imagine most other teams will go back to bracketing kelce, keeping everything in front of them versus the run and with physical man coverage. Things Vegas didn’t really emphasize. So we will see where that takes us.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Any declaration of failure is still very, very premature.

This team will be the 1st to win three straight SB's and there will be fans talking about how Reid or Veach failed at something.

I didn't like the Sky pick or paying a RT $18 million but if you win the SB all your moves worked. All of them. It built a SB winning team and that is all that matters. The cap is full so every move had to be made to allow another signing to be made. Clark isn't just sitting on a throne of unused cap money.

If we win the SB this year, our third recently and second in a row, nothing failed about this year's plan...

[WilliamTheIrish]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic View Post
Most of the WR's on this team would not see the field elsewhere. To think otherwise is a display of your ignorance of what other NFL teams have at the position.

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

You said they got rid of their #1 wr with no replacement. It was then explained to you that they did in fact replace him with Rice. You then say that the WR's don't compare with other teams which is a 100% completely different conversation than if they replaced Juju or not.

That’s how a female argues.

[FloridaMan88]

Blame the lights at Arrowhead for the drops?

This is neat from @DataWithBliss -- the dropped pass rate at night at Arrowhead is the only stadium/game time combination in the NFL over 10%@cheetah was right -- it's hard to catch in Kansas City at night
https://t.co/W8J9JxUgVE pic.twitter.com/7nst50hj5w

— Michael Lopez (@StatsbyLopez) November 29, 2023

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yes, veach made a mistake. But it is one mistake surrounded by an otherwise brilliant roster construction and we still have a great shot at winning it all. We’d be downright unstoppable if we had addressed the issue, but we’re still damn good. I have tremendous trust in Reid to make it work while also wishing we had done better. Just because we made a mistake doesn’t mean it’s a fatal one. We adapt for now and we fix it later. No sweat.

So I've mostly been in the WR suck camp but I've mostly not been in the Veach made a mistake camp.

Outside of whiffing on Skyy (every GM has busts), what were any other of his clear mistakes based on the information he had at the time?

There's a thing called a salary cap and a draft.

If Toney had been reasonably healthy, he might have won some games for us and most of you would be talking about V's brilliance. It's still certainly possible that Toney might be a game changer in the post season. Or outside of last years post season, he might be a gamble that didn't pay off.

When you are trying to have a SB level team, year after year, you can't stick with a conservative strategy even when anchored by Mahomes. Especially at Mahomes salary. You certainly can't afford to pay your SB level team market rate or only draft high floor/low ceiling players.

I guess you could have gone more all-in this year when you have CJ and Kelce and just live with rebuilding years later.

But otherwise, without hindsight, Veach has to roll the dice on all his decisions. So he went cheaper at WR. That a dice roll doesn't go his way is not automatically a 'mistake'.

This is more like a poker game where you got to play the odds. For instance, how much investment is your QB2 worth? Well, how many games in the middle of the season do you expect Mahomes to miss?

He paid a premium for Taylor at RT, but I think that was reasonable based on not having either starting tackle at the start of FA.