****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

The more I watch this clip, the more I think no one's really open.


Sure, Watson at thhe top of the screen is technically open when he breaks, but firt of all, he's short of the sticks by about 5-6 yards. Two, he's crossing towards the middle at a pretty fast rate; Pat can't throw at Justin or behind him even a little. He has to lead him, and by a decent amount considering how fast Justin's going from left to right.


And the rush beats the OL at about the 4.5sec mark. The ball has to be gone by about 4.7 seconds, right? Stop the clip at 5 sec and go back a tad. Is Justin really 'wide open'?

It doesn't look like it to me. It looks like a rapidly shrinking window that he'd have to lead by 3-4 yards from 28 yards away with a rusher in his face.

MVS, well, guessing that has to be MVS streaking down the middle with triple coverage, so he's never open.

Whoever that is underneath MVS isn't open either, plus he's 10 yds short of the sticks?

Gray is never a real target, both because of his depth, and the fact that the rush gets to Pat before he can even look at Gray.

The outlet, as usual, doesn't count.


I don't think anyone's legitmately open in that clip; prove me wrong?

It's when he makes his cut. This isn't high school football. Timing is everything, ball has to be out when he makes the cut. If it's late yeah, the DB has time to drive on it.

Yeah, he's running an inbreaker on 3rd and 20. He's not gonna run it at 20 yards because, well, duh you don't have time to run an in breaker at 20 yards on 3rd and 20.

DJ brought it up earlier, you aren't gonna convert alot of 3rd and 20's in this situation, but what you absolutely can't do, is turn in over. Throw it short, if he breaks a tackle, great. If not, punt and play defense. You're up 2 scores.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's when he makes his cut. This isn't high school football. Timing is everything, ball has to be out when he makes the cut. If it's late yeah, the DB has time to drive on it.

Yeah, he's running an inbreaker on 3rd and 20. He's not gonna run it at 20 yards because, well, duh you don't have time to run an in breaker at 20 yards on 3rd and 20.

DJ brought it up earlier, you aren't gonna convert alot of 3rd and 20's in this situation, but what you absolutely can't do, is turn in over. Throw it short, if he breaks a tackle, great. If not, punt and play defense. You're up 2 scores.

Yeah, the only real moment is when Justin 'cuts' inside. Except that he runs this curving break; it's not a crisp break at the top of the route. I mean, he's open technically for about 3/4 of a second, but nothing about that route gives Pat a clean look to throw at either, imo.


And I get that we aren't converting a lot of 3rd and 20s, just as I'm positive that Pat knows that as well. I'm sure he understands that 4th and 8 is still better than taking a sack.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, the only real moment is when Justin 'cuts' inside. Except that he runs this curving break; it's not a crisp break at the top of the route. I mean, he's open technically for about 3/4 of a second, but nothing about that route gives Pat a clean look to throw at either, imo.


And I get that we aren't converting a lot of 3rd and 20s, just as I'm positive that Pat knows that as well. I'm sure he understands that 4th and 8 is still better than taking a sack.

He's got 4 yards of separation at the cut. So yeah, he's not "open" for the entire play. Again, it's the NFL. When he makes his cut, he has all the leverage and Ramsey isn't in a position to break on the ball.

Look at the rest of the combination of routes there and the defense. The slot defender vacates to leave the lane, then Watson is on the in behind it.

That's as NFL open as you're gonna get

And Pat is looking right at it. Let it fly.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by O.city

He's got 4 yards of separation at the cut. So yeah, he's not "open" for the entire play. Again, it's the NFL. When he makes his cut, he has all the leverage and Ramsey isn't in a position to break on the ball.

Look at the rest of the combination of routes there and the defense. The slot defender vacates to leave the lane, then Watson is on the in behind it.

That's as NFL open as you're gonna get

And Pat is looking right at it. Let it fly.

Oh, I agree that Pat should've thrown the ball at Justin. Only actual option, imo. No one else is really open. Just not impressed with the route itself, and/or how it was run. I guess what I'm saying is that I get why Pat may have hesitated, but I also agree he should've taken the shot regardless. It was his only and best option.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Noah Gray immediately pops out as open near the bottom.

Pat never gets to look at Gray. He starts his read to his left; Watson is the only real target.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Dante84

Isn't this play 3rd and 20? You can see that Watson's route breaks in short of the sticks. Unless we want to go back to the days of Matt Cassel throwing short of the sticks on 3rd down, I'm comfortable with him waiting for the deep shot - which I think he was waiting on, but he runs out of time because the Smith & Thuney lost on the ET stunt.

I'm sorry but they just don't make plays for 3rd and 20.

Throw that ball, hope Watson breaks a tackle.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm sorry but they just don't make plays for 3rd and 20.

Throw that ball, hope Watson breaks a tackle.

I just don't really understand what he's holding the ball waiting to happen here.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's when he makes his cut. This isn't high school football. Timing is everything, ball has to be out when he makes the cut. If it's late yeah, the DB has time to drive on it.

Yeah, he's running an inbreaker on 3rd and 20. He's not gonna run it at 20 yards because, well, duh you don't have time to run an in breaker at 20 yards on 3rd and 20.

DJ brought it up earlier, you aren't gonna convert alot of 3rd and 20's in this situation, but what you absolutely can't do, is turn in over. Throw it short, if he breaks a tackle, great. If not, punt and play defense. You're up 2 scores.

I like the outlet there. Even if Pop doesn't get the first, he gets some good yards and maybe Gray picks up the block to spring him further.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I just don't really understand what he's holding the ball waiting to happen here.

Even if the play is a deep shot (and I don't even see one dialed up) - hit the back of the drop and chuck the shit out of it.

By the time he's pulled down the passing icons there, there's nothing good that can come of it. Guys don't just break open 30 yards downfield with any regularity. Either your guy was going to pull in a contested catch (in which case, throw it at the back of the drop) or he isn't. But the odds of him breaking open on a scramble deal like Robinson did in that pre-season game 5 years ago are just do damn remote.

The Dolphins have a quality secondary. That's not the kind of breakdown you're likely to see.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Even if the play is a deep shot (and I don't even see one dialed up) - hit the back of the drop and chuck the shit out of it.

By the time he's pulled down the passing icons there, there's nothing good that can come of it. Guys don't just break open 30 yards downfield with any regularity. Either your guy was going to pull in a contested catch (in which case, throw it at the back of the drop) or he isn't. But the odds of him breaking open on a scramble deal like Robinson did in that pre-season game 5 years ago are just do damn remote.

The Dolphins have a quality secondary. That's not the kind of breakdown you're likely to see.

Yeah, that's kinda what he's fallen into this year. It's like he's just trying to do too much maybe? I dunno.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

The more I watch this clip, the more I think no one's really open.


Sure, Watson at thhe top of the screen is technically open when he breaks, but firt of all, he's short of the sticks by about 5-6 yards. Two, he's crossing towards the middle at a pretty fast rate; Pat can't throw at Justin or behind him even a little. He has to lead him, and by a decent amount considering how fast Justin's going from left to right.


And the rush beats the OL at about the 4.5sec mark. The ball has to be gone by about 4.7 seconds, right? Stop the clip at 5 sec and go back a tad. Is Justin really 'wide open'?

It doesn't look like it to me. It looks like a rapidly shrinking window that he'd have to lead by 3-4 yards from 28 yards away with a rusher in his face.

I mean, maybe if Watson had come back directly towards Pat more. Would've made it more like 4th and 10, but Pat wouldn't have to lead him, and the defender to the middle wouldn't be in play and the other defender is stacked behind Watson. But he runs across the field.

MVS, well, guessing that has to be MVS streaking down the middle with triple coverage, so he's never open.

Whoever that is underneath MVS isn't open either, plus he's 10 yds short of the sticks?

Gray is never a real target, both because of his depth, and the fact that the rush gets to Pat before he can even look at Gray.

The outlet, as usual, doesn't count.


I don't think anyone's legitmately open in that clip; prove me wrong?

Then nobody is ever open.

You're looking for the same windows Matt Cassel was always looking for. "High School Open".

You're looking for the same windows that Zach Wilson was looking for last night.

There were 3 throws to make there. Man, if that throw to Watson isn't 'open' in your eyes, then I don't know what to tell you. Mahomes makes a dozen throws into tighter windows than that every single week. You throw it at the sideline as his breaking down. He turns, locates the ball, takes a step forward and has a 15 yard gain where maybe he turns off a tackler and can get the 1st down.

The check down is also an easy throw for probably 10 yards of YAC.

Maybe this is why we keep hearing 'nobody is open!!!!' all the time. Y'all think a guy is EVER running in 5 yards of empty space. They aren't. Not if the coverage doesn't break down.

This is like people expecting Perry Mason moments in court where the witness breaks down and makes a sobbing admission on the stand. There's no magic route or cut that just breaks a guy into 7 yards of empty space. What makes a good route runner is precision. Hitting his mark EXACTLY on time and getting 2 yards of separation just as he's hitting it. Then because he's there exactly when he should be, the ball is being delivered when/before that space is created.

No, you're just wrong here. There were absolutely throws to make there. And that play is a hell of a litmus test, IMO. Because if you look at that play and think "Man, the receivers are the problem here" then you really do need to recalibrate a little.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yeah, the only real moment is when Justin 'cuts' inside. Except that he runs this curving break; it's not a crisp break at the top of the route. I mean, he's open technically for about 3/4 of a second, but nothing about that route gives Pat a clean look to throw at either, imo.


And I get that we aren't converting a lot of 3rd and 20s, just as I'm positive that Pat knows that as well. I'm sure he understands that 4th and 8 is still better than taking a sack.

He starts to drift in his zone because the ball's not there when he turns.

And there's no reason for it not to be. That play worked exactly as designed. The ball needs to come out as he's breaking down. He turns and sees that the ball hasn't been thrown so he drifts.

But if the ball was thrown before he turned, he's going to attack the ball rather than drift.

Guy was NFL open. And pretty damn open for the situation, IMO.

[O.city]

Yeah, you can see that really designed itself well and they got what they wanted.

That's.....I dunno, is that a trust thing now? That's Watson who we were told he trusted, so what's the issue here?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Yeah, you can see that really designed itself well and they got what they wanted.

That's.....I dunno, is that a trust thing now? That's Watson who we were told he trusted, so what's the issue here?

That's a bad rep from the QB.

The million dollar question is why we're seeing so many of those. It's not the moments of brilliance - he still has those. It's the inexplicable reps in between.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's a bad rep from the QB.

The million dollar question is why we're seeing so many of those. It's not the moments of brilliance - he still has those. It's the inexplicable reps in between.

It's just so out of character for the guy. He didn't have many of them last year.

It's not that it won't happen. Shit happens, it's a hard game.

But damn.