Chiefs ****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread**** - Page 161

Sofa King · 09-07-2023, 09:08 PM

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

O.city · 10-02-2023, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

A toney injury shouldn't derail anything. There was no way they went into the season expecting him to stay healthy. That's something they should/would have taken into account and planned for.

If that's how you're treating it, you don't build around the guy.

They did and here we are. There's arguments, as you've said, for why you shouldn't but that's.....I dunno I don't think you can view things like that.

-King- · 10-02-2023, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Who is the dynamic speed threat that the Chiefs can throw out for gadget plays?

Do you have any recollection of how important that position is to an Andy Reid offense?

Who would you pick as the #1 person to take that slot on this team right now, if you absolutely had to?

Can our WRs just run a normal offense without worrying about the gadget plays?

-King- · 10-02-2023, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

If that's how you're treating it, you don't build around the guy.

They did and here we are. There's arguments, as you've said, for why you shouldn't but that's.....I dunno I don't think you can view things like that.

I think you just have to be realistic with some players. Like the Chargers should be going into every season knowing Mike Williams will eventually get hurt. It's the same for the chiefs except Toney hasn't shown to be anywhere near as good as Mike Williams so it should have less effect on our offense when he does miss time.

O.city · 10-02-2023, 09:18 AM

Let Moore do the gadget stuff. He's not on Tyreek's level obviously but he can do it fine. Doesn't require much thinking.

DJ's left nut · 10-02-2023, 09:19 AM

Dammit I really do want DJ Moore in here.

If there's any way to make it work on the cap, I'm giving a 2nd for him easy.

Can't give up a 1 -- too many needs on the horizon. But he's just so damn perfect for this offense.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-02-2023, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Exactly.

I'm giving up on Moore. He's just bad. So instead of saying Moore replaces JJSS and Rice provides an upgrade at WR3, I'm going to say that by the end of the year, Rice will be better than what JJSS was at the end of last season. And Toney will be more experienced and hopefully healthy.

So at that point your December 2022 depth chart is:

Kelce
JJSS (gimpy as ****)
Toney (Still green and also gimpy)
MVS (Trying to develop chemistry)
Watson
Moore (sucks)

Vs 2023:

Kelce (a year older than 2022)
Rice (ideally an upgrade on JJSS to offset the age related decline of Kelce)
Toney (Ideally healthier and more comfortable in the offense)
MVS (maybe he's finally developed chemistry?)
Watson
Moore (still sucks)

I mean I wouldn't even say it's unlikely that we're better at WR by the end of the season than we were at the end of last season. I'd say it's more likely than not that we are because Rice seems like a gimme to be better than what JJSS ended up.

Man Moore has created some headaches. Guy just hasn't shown a damn thing out there.

I think you also have to factor that defenses have gotten much much better. And they have much better answers for teams that use a lot of catch and run. Almost every team has seen a regression. We have to be that much better on offense. I’m with you that we can match last years levels if not better and that gives us a good shot. But we of course should be striving for better. Ideally we have two rashee like guys and Toney can play off into a utility role. But until then you just need to load him up more and hope he can stay healthy.

Direckshun · 10-02-2023, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

Can our WRs just run a normal offense without worrying about the gadget plays?

Two things can be true. First, they can struggle at that.

Second, the Chiefs, under Andy Reid, love having a guy with Next Level speed to run various gadget plays. He has an army of those plays and he loves having a Z run them.

When Andy arrived, he made do with Dexter McCluster, but in 2014 he snagged De'Anthony Thomas. Then he snagged Tyreek, who became much more than that, and then Mecole came along.

They tried John Ross this offseason but it wasn't working and the dude retired. And now they're just trying to make do with an amalgam of guys doing Z work.

Washington is a Z. Toub now likes the guy. The track record for those guys getting playing time is strong.

O.city · 10-02-2023, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

I think you just have to be realistic with some players. Like the Chargers should be going into every season knowing Mike Williams will eventually get hurt. It's the same for the chiefs except Toney hasn't shown to be anywhere near as good as Mike Williams so it should have less effect on our offense when he does miss time.

As a fan, I do agree and I understand what you're saying here. But team building, if that's the way you view a guy, I don't think you can roster him.

Injuries just seem to be so random, even in guys that get injured alot. Maybe you're right and teams should view it more that way, but limited resources and all..... I'm not sure how you do.

Direckshun · 10-02-2023, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Let Moore do the gadget stuff. He's not on Tyreek's level obviously but he can do it fine. Doesn't require much thinking.

He's not a speed guy.

He's supposed to be a slippery Y. Deep speed or gadget plays are not his forte.

DJ's left nut · 10-02-2023, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Let Moore do the gadget stuff. He's not on Tyreek's level obviously but he can do it fine. Doesn't require much thinking.

They tried!

What do you think that quick out is? That was the Tyreek Hill 'easy money' whip route kind of thing.

You can't even run gadget stuff when the dude doesn't seem to have "cut 90 degrees and run in a straight line" thing figured out.

And he's nowhere near explosive enough for the Hardman packages.

He's just not very useful if he can't run a simple route tree. And right now he can't.

O.city · 10-02-2023, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Dammit I really do want DJ Moore in here.

If there's any way to make it work on the cap, I'm giving a 2nd for him easy.

Can't give up a 1 -- too many needs on the horizon. But he's just so damn perfect for this offense.

Does the 1 for Moore really make filling those future needs that much tougher though?

I'm not sure the future needs really require a 1. Maybe your LT obviously, but they've bandaided it before so maybe you can keep doing that.

Ideally, you don't have to do it and I'm not sure the Bears will allow their GM to do it anyway.

O.city · 10-02-2023, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

He's not a speed guy.

He's supposed to be a slippery Y. Deep speed or gadget plays are not his forte.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They tried!

What do you think that quick out is? That was the Tyreek Hill 'easy money' whip route kind of thing.

You can't even run gadget stuff when the dude doesn't seem to have "cut 90 degrees and run in a straight line" thing figured out.

And he's nowhere near explosive enough for the Hardman packages.

He's just not very useful if he can't run a simple route tree. And right now he can't.

I'm basically just talking about the speed and jet sweep stuff.

Other than that....yeah, I'd want Toney doing it. He's got the speed and vision.

chiefzilla1501 · 10-02-2023, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They tried!

What do you think that quick out is? That was the Tyreek Hill 'easy money' whip route kind of thing.

You can't even run gadget stuff when the dude doesn't seem to have "cut 90 degrees and run in a straight line" thing figured out.

And he's nowhere near explosive enough for the Hardman packages.

He's just not very useful if he can't run a simple route tree. And right now he can't.

I think he’s effective enough but I agree, it feels like Toney can do those same things but much much better. Maybe you just let skyy run it for now until we hit the later stretch when we can use Toney more heavily .

DJ's left nut · 10-02-2023, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

If that's how you're treating it, you don't build around the guy.

They did and here we are. There's arguments, as you've said, for why you shouldn't but that's.....I dunno I don't think you can view things like that.

I feel like they didn't really build around Toney as much as they banked on either Toney staying healthy/productive OR Moore improving.

To this point they've gotten neither.

I think they figured at least one of those 2 possibilities would hit. And they didn't have the spare capital to really create a 3rd.

I mean ultimately think about how badly things would've gone last season without Pacheco. That's the cost of busting on a 1st/2nd round pick you're counting on to start. Pacheco as a 7th rounder performing like a 1st/2nd day pick bailed us out.

So Moore busting left Toney as the possible 'salvage' and if he's not performing, we're reaching deep into the bag.

Direckshun · 10-02-2023, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm basically just talking about the speed and jet sweep stuff.

Other than that....yeah, I'd want Toney doing it.

That's not Toney's bag either! Toney's more of a Y as well, though he's talented enough to do almost anything.

Toney can't run Wasp. The Chiefs, right now, don't have a guy they give playing time to who can run Wasp.

Washington has the deep speed and twitch, at least, to run it. Time will tell if he can see the field.

09-07-2023, 09:08 PM
Sofa King Bump it Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Dakota Casino cash: $-200000 VARSITY	**Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread** They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.
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10-02-2023, 09:18 AM	#2404
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-525936	Let Moore do the gadget stuff. He's not on Tyreek's level obviously but he can do it fine. Doesn't require much thinking.
Posts: 84,153

10-02-2023, 09:19 AM	#2405
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $-620901	Dammit I really do want DJ Moore in here. If there's any way to make it work on the cap, I'm giving a 2nd for him easy. Can't give up a 1 -- too many needs on the horizon. But he's just so damn perfect for this offense. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 66,701