Chiefs ****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread**** - Page 123

Sofa King · 09-07-2023, 09:08 PM

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

O.city · 09-19-2023, 01:51 PM

I would love for them to play all the rookies all the time but I also think Andy Reid probably has an idea what he's doing.

They've given themselves plenty of rope, I would think, in their tenure here for me to sit and figure "they'll figure it out".

staylor26 · 09-19-2023, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Lateral moves is pretty far from accurate RE the tackle position. Taylor has actually been pretty ****ing fantastic despite the NFL making him a target for penalties. Even with the penalties he's been light years ahead of Wylie

That dude is literally reeruned.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-19-2023, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

You think the group that is playing the majority of the snaps right now is bad, or at least not good enough, right?

You want Rice to get more snaps now, not later, right?

What the **** am I missing here?

You're missing a couple of brain cells to rub together, apparently.

You think the group that is playing the majority of the snaps right now is bad?

NO.

or at least not good enough, right?

ALSO NO.

But why the **** settle for "good enough" when you have the ability to be better?

Just like I said to Twisted - we're not in disagreement about the talent in the room - I think we'd all agree that Toney/Rice/Ross are our most talented WR's.

The difference seems to be that you and him are OK with a struggling offense's "good enough" *hopefully* being "good enough" while we wait for Andy to unleash the more talented players.

OKchiefs · 09-19-2023, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't really buy that Andy Reid has far and away the most complicated offense in the NFL. That honestly just doesn't make any sense.

My understanding is the expectation that each receiver learns every spot on the offense is what takes longer for them to fully learn the offense? If so wouldn’t it make sense to maybe make it easier for them by allowing them to stick with with a specific role? Let Toney focus on being the Z receiver, Ross the X, Rice and Moore the slot or something along those lines. Dumb down the offense for them, can always add in more nuance down the road as they grow. For now they should be able to get on the field consistently, not just in certain packages.

staylor26 · 09-19-2023, 01:58 PM

I don't think the issue is that Reid's offense is just SO MUCH more complicated than everybody else's.

It's that it ask more of the WR to know what the defense is doing, and what he has to do in response to that. It's all about timing and precision, and they all have to be on the same page.

The perfect example is the play from last year that Reid kind of caleld Skyy out on that led to a Mahomes INT. That's the kind of stuff that DJ is referring to when he talks about trust, and I think it's why Andy eases those guys in.

RunKC · 09-19-2023, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Do we have Mike Williams and Keenan Allen?

Anyway the point is that young receivers have been producing at a higher and higher rate in the NFL, this idea that you gotta wait for year 2 is a crutch, that isn't going on anywhere else.

MVS, Toney and Skyy were always going to be the top 3, especially starting the season. They talked a lot about Toney and Skyy and none of the young guys can give the speed to do what MVS does.

What were you expecting?

And yeah the Puka kid in LA is playing. Maybe that's bc their WR corps is Van Jefferson, a 150 lbs midget (Atwell) and Demarcus ****ing Robinson.

staylor26 · 09-19-2023, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

You're missing a couple of brain cells to rub together, apparently.

You think the group that is playing the majority of the snaps right now is bad?

NO.

or at least not good enough, right?

ALSO NO.

But why the **** settle for "good enough" when you have the ability to be better?

Just like I said to Twisted - we're not in disagreement about the talent in the room - I think we'd all agree that Toney/Rice/Ross are our most talented WR's.

The difference seems to be that you and him are OK with a struggling offense's "good enough" *hopefully* being "good enough" while we wait for Andy to unleash the more talented players.

Oh you can definitely go **** yourself with this bullshit.

You're 100% talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're completely and utterly full of shit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

And that’s the rub.

Everyone expects 15 to just make chicken salad out of chicken shit and hope the WRs figure it out in two months.

He’s the ****ing GOAT, but that’s still asking a lot.

It's not my fault that you're clearly experiencing cognitive dissonance in this thread. You're all over the ****ing place dude.

staylor26 · 09-19-2023, 02:04 PM

OTWP is now trying to claim that he didn't even say or imply that the current group isn't good enough.

Apparently our WR group is ****ing amazing.

We have a group that's more than good enough currently getting most of the snaps, and we have some young guys that are even better behind them!

So THAT's what you meant by "unprecedented".

I'm still trying to figure out what you meant by "chicken shit" though

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-19-2023, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

Oh you can definitely go **** yourself with this bullshit.

You're 100% talking out of both sides of your mouth. You're completely and utterly full of shit.

It's not my fault that you're clearly experiencing cognitive dissonance in this thread. You're all over the ****ing place dude.

And that's your go-to in every ****ing discussion you have with me, man.

I can say Toney/Rice/Ross have off the wall talent 100 different ways and you'll come back to:

NAH, you're full of shit.

Excellent argument.

OTW15: The sky is blue today

Staylor: *looks outside, sky is blue* YOU'RE SO FULL OF SHIT

Pitt Gorilla · 09-19-2023, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I don't think the issue is that Reid's offense is just SO MUCH more complicated than everybody else's.

It's that it ask more of the WR to know what the defense is doing, and what he has to do in response to that. It's all about timing and precision, and they all have to be on the same page.

The perfect example is the play from last year that Reid kind of caleld Skyy out on that led to a Mahomes INT. That's the kind of stuff that DJ is referring to when he talks about trust, and I think it's why Andy eases those guys in.

Exactly. It's not about learning a route for a play. It's about learning which route to run for a particular play given a particular defense, including coverage, blitz, etc.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-19-2023, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

And that’s the rub.

Everyone expects 15 to just make chicken salad out of chicken shit and hope the WRs figure it out in two months.

He’s the ****ing GOAT, but that’s still asking a lot.

The WR room is made up of what - 7 guys?

They can't ALL be world beaters.

Which group would you consider the "chicken shit" group when it comes to talent?

MVS/Moore/Watson

or

Toney/Rice/Ross?

I'll rephrase:

Everyone expects 15 to just make more out of less.

Better?

staylor26 · 09-19-2023, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

The WR room is made up of what - 7 guys?

They can't ALL be world beaters.

Which group would you consider the "chicken shit" group when it comes to talent?

MVS/Moore/Watson

or

Toney/Rice/Ross?

I'll rephrase:

Everyone expects 15 to just make more out of less.

Better?

You mean the guys getting "the majority of the snaps" that I was referring to?

Again, absolutely hilarious that you accuse me of not being able to read. Or maybe you just don't know who's getting the majority of the snaps?

Now that you've finally got it figured out:

My question was, if the current group getting the majority of the snaps (the chicken shit minus Toney) doesn't cut it, don't you think that will force the issue with Rice/Ross?

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-19-2023, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

You mean the guys getting "the majority of the snaps" that I was referring to?

Again, absolutely hilarious that you accuse me of not being able to read.

Now that you've finally got it figured out:

My question was, if the current group getting the majority of the snaps (the chicken shit minus Toney) doesn't cut it, don't you think that will force the issue.

It may, it may not. NFL coaches are pretty ****ing stubborn and ego driven.

Exhibit A:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yuuuuuuuuup.

That 'explanation' from Veach is insulting, IMO.

"Yeah, we think you fans are just going to take it as an article of faith that our system is just that much more complicated than everyone else's..."

McVay has a hell of a deep system in his own right and he has a guy out there executing it. He has a QB that improvises and they've figure it out.

"Andy's complicated scheme" has always been a flimsy excuse to me. I think it's a hell of a lot less complicated than that - it's a trust issue for Reid (and by extension, Mahomes).

If he isn't absolutely certain you'll be in the right place at the right time for 95% of your reps and he has an alternative that he thinks will be, he's going to go with the alterative.

Because not getting open may mean a stalled drive. But just running a stupid route may mean a turnover. Reid seems content with taking some ceiling out of the offense in exchange for raising floor when it comes to turnovers. And he doesn't have the patience it would seem to require to put up with in-season growing pains from younger WRs.

When he doesn't have a choice he trusts more, he seems like he'll play them. Or if he has a rookie like Hill who bring so MUCH more ceiling that it justifies the lower floor. But when it's Moore - who's ceiling isn't higher than anyone else out there and who's floor was clearly lower - he's not gonna force that guy into the lineup. It's early yet to see how he's handling Rice but I do think he's using him a little more aggressively than he used Moore. And Ross is getting about the same level of run as Moore did at this time last year.

It's not scheme - its trust and philosophy, IMO.

Trust > Talent and you don't gain trust playing 12 snaps a game.

staylor26 · 09-19-2023, 02:16 PM

So as I've said, this all comes down to a complete lack of trust in the process with Andy, despite the results from the last 5 years.

And you also won't even accept that Veach himself has said the plan is to ease them into starting roles.

That's a you problem.

And trust me, DJ might not fully agree with Andy's processes, but he has faith/trust in them.

Pitt Gorilla · 09-19-2023, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

My understanding is the expectation that each receiver learns every spot on the offense is what takes longer for them to fully learn the offense? If so wouldn’t it make sense to maybe make it easier for them by allowing them to stick with with a specific role? Let Toney focus on being the Z receiver, Ross the X, Rice and Moore the slot or something along those lines. Dumb down the offense for them, can always add in more nuance down the road as they grow. For now they should be able to get on the field consistently, not just in certain packages.

Then, when the inevitable injuries happen, we won't necessarily be getting the best guys on the field. What if both X receivers get hurt?

09-07-2023, 09:08 PM
Sofa King Bump it Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Dakota Casino cash: $-200000 VARSITY	**Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread** They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.
Posts: 23,455

09-19-2023, 01:51 PM	#1831
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-535936	I would love for them to play all the rookies all the time but I also think Andy Reid probably has an idea what he's doing. They've given themselves plenty of rope, I would think, in their tenure here for me to sit and figure "they'll figure it out".
Posts: 84,153

09-19-2023, 01:58 PM	#1835
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1890960	I don't think the issue is that Reid's offense is just SO MUCH more complicated than everybody else's. It's that it ask more of the WR to know what the defense is doing, and what he has to do in response to that. It's all about timing and precision, and they all have to be on the same page. The perfect example is the play from last year that Reid kind of caleld Skyy out on that led to a Mahomes INT. That's the kind of stuff that DJ is referring to when he talks about trust, and I think it's why Andy eases those guys in.
Posts: 52,836	1 0

09-19-2023, 02:04 PM	#1838
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1890960	OTWP is now trying to claim that he didn't even say or imply that the current group isn't good enough. Apparently our WR group is ****ing amazing. We have a group that's more than good enough currently getting most of the snaps, and we have some young guys that are even better behind them! So THAT's what you meant by "unprecedented". I'm still trying to figure out what you meant by "chicken shit" though
Posts: 52,836	1 0

09-19-2023, 02:16 PM	#1844
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1890960	So as I've said, this all comes down to a complete lack of trust in the process with Andy, despite the results from the last 5 years. And you also won't even accept that Veach himself has said the plan is to ease them into starting roles. That's a you problem. And trust me, DJ might not fully agree with Andy's processes, but he has faith/trust in them.
Posts: 52,836	1 0