****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So there it is again. Nobody’s saying you can’t trust them or that veach sucks. Or that because we won a Super Bowl with a great offense they’re beyond reproach. But we can acknowledge that our recent track record on offensive recruiting hasn’t been great.

We won in spite of clear deficiencies on offense talent wise. We have three GOATs who mask that really really well. So because we won a Super Bowl we didn’t need to address the OT situation? No. They are important positions and we whiffed. Arguably we didn’t do great at addressing it this offseason either. We will continue to find ways of masking it but it’s fair to question if we did it effectively. I don’t know why you can’t say the same for WRs.

And it’s been a matter of missing on several big swings. But also, sorry, while you like to suggest we’ve thrown resources at this in every way we are easily on the bottom part of the league in terms of how much draft capital we pump into our offense.

No, the problem is, you're already passing judgement after game 2. You don't say- it looks like maybe we didn't do a good job addressing the position, you say we didn't. And it's far, far too early for any such declaration.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So there it is again. Nobody’s saying you can’t trust them or that veach sucks. And just because we won a Super Bowl with a great offense doesn’t mean they’re beyond reproach. But we can acknowledge that our recent track record on offensive recruiting hasn’t been great.

We won in spite of clear deficiencies on offense talent wise. We have three GOATs who mask that really really well. So because we won a Super Bowl we didn’t need to address the OT situation? No. They are important positions and we whiffed. Arguably we didn’t do great at addressing it this offseason either. We will continue to find ways of masking it but it’s fair to question if we did it effectively. I don’t know why you can’t say the same for WRs.

And it’s been a matter of missing on several big swings. But also, sorry, while you like to suggest we’ve thrown resources at this in every way we are easily on the bottom part of the league in terms of how much draft capital we pump into our offense.

The offense over the last 5 years has been the best in the game.

The defense has spent a good part of those last 5 years being a tire fire.

Where would YOU have us allocating the largest chunk of our draft capital, ace?

We clearly needed to fix the D. It appears we have largely done so. In the process we've seen some misfires on offense that will almost certainly sort themselves out by the end of the season and we'll STILL have a top 5 scoring unit. And if that's not the case, the amount of capital we've put into the D over the last several seasons will allow us to address the O this coming offseason.

This is how it works when you have limited capital. You attack areas that need to be attacked and then as the disparity between offense/defense starts to level off, you can be more even in how you approach the two.

Pretending like we should've thrown as much capital in the draft at the league's top ranked offense as we do one of it's worst ranked defenses is kinda silly...

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So there it is again. Nobody’s saying you can’t trust them or that veach sucks. And just because we won a Super Bowl with a great offense doesn’t mean they’re beyond reproach. But we can acknowledge that our recent track record on offensive recruiting hasn’t been great.

We won in spite of clear deficiencies on offense talent wise. We have three GOATs who mask that really really well. So because we won a Super Bowl we didn’t need to address the OT situation? No. They are important positions and we whiffed. Arguably we didn’t do great at addressing it this offseason either. We will continue to find ways of masking it but it’s fair to question if we did it effectively. I don’t know why you can’t say the same for WRs.

And it’s been a matter of missing on several big swings. But also, sorry, while you like to suggest we’ve thrown resources at this in every way we are easily on the bottom part of the league in terms of how much draft capital we pump into our offense.

surely such a specific statement is easily backed up by quantified evidence

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

surely such a specific statement is easily backed up by quantified evidence

I'll assume for the sake of argument that it's accurate.

Why SHOULDN'T the best offense in the league, with one of the worst defenses in the league, be putting far more draft resources on the defense than the offense?

This just seems hilariously self-evident.

We're probably nearing equilibrium where we can start to even things out a bit. But we had an entire defense get old and turn to shit right about the time Mahomes took over the ship. We had to fix that and get those guys to at least average or we were gonna have a lot of years like '18 in front of us.

We managed to do so. Now some of the offense is starting to gray a bit so we'll need to adjust to THAT.

It's a balancing act every single year. But for the first several years of Veach's time here, there was nothing to balance - the offense was elite and the defense was a shit-show. That had to be addressed.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

So there it is again. Nobody’s saying you can’t trust them or that veach sucks. And just because we won a Super Bowl with a great offense doesn’t mean they’re beyond reproach. But we can acknowledge that our recent track record on offensive recruiting hasn’t been great.

We won in spite of clear deficiencies on offense talent wise. We have three GOATs who mask that really really well. So because we won a Super Bowl we didn’t need to address the OT situation? No. They are important positions and we whiffed. Arguably we didn’t do great at addressing it this offseason either. We will continue to find ways of masking it but it’s fair to question if we did it effectively. I don’t know why you can’t say the same for WRs.

And it’s been a matter of missing on several big swings. But also, sorry, while you like to suggest we’ve thrown resources at this in every way we are easily on the bottom part of the league in terms of how much draft capital we pump into our offense.

Again, they did address the WR position. With a 2nd round pick. After they just spent a 2nd and a 3rd on it. And paid two free agents 10 plus million.

I dunno. One of the best offensive runs in the history of the league for 5 years seems to say they've done something right?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

First round TE's have a terrible history, the value isn't there. First round DE"s are always a good idea.

CEH is the big miss that is killer. Mecole produced about at an average 2nd round WR level.

They just won a SB and had one of the best offensive output seasons in the history of the NFL. If you don't trust this regime at this point.......it sounds like that's a you problem.

Andy is so good at finding TE's. Even Chad Lewis was functional under Andy.

But we need to use an asset to bring in Kelce's replacement next year and start getting him experience.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Andy is so good at finding TE's. Even Chad Lewis was functional under Andy.

But we need to use an asset to bring in Kelce's replacement next year and start getting him experience.

I wouldn't specifically go looking for Kelce's replacement. You aren't gonna replace him so don't go out of your way to.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by O.city

I wouldn't specifically go looking for Kelce's replacement. You aren't gonna replace him so don't go out of your way to.

Exactly.

If a guy like Ja'Tavion Sanders falls into their lap, then sure, but don't go out of your way to try to replace a guy that is essentially irrelplacable. You could just as easily draft another WR.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

No, the problem is, you're already passing judgement after game 2. You don't say- it looks like maybe we didn't do a good job addressing the position, you say we didn't. And it's far, far too early for any such declaration.

For the OTs? That’a more than fair to pass some judgment already.

Because obj was a mistake. I get the trade under the circumstances but we also considered signing him after his bad first season. Taylor needs time… although it’s obviously not off to a good start.

But on the other side In back to back years we’ve bandaided one of our OT positions. And we’re using third round picks to backfill. We’ve put really low effort into addressing this spot even to the point of trusting mahomes’ blind side to a band aid. That deserves plenty of scrutiny even though it’s early.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by O.city

Again, they did address the WR position. With a 2nd round pick. After they just spent a 2nd and a 3rd on it. And paid two free agents 10 plus million.

I dunno. One of the best offensive runs in the history of the league for 5 years seems to say they've done something right?

Mahomes

[O.city]

LT's get drafted early in the first round or signed for alot of FA money. They're gonna probably have to do one of those things at some point.

But they've also got good LT play, not great, but at least adequate for not alot of money. They got good LT play out of OBJ for basically the cost of a 2nd round pick, didn't have to pay him alot, then let him walk.

It worked out.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

I wouldn't specifically go looking for Kelce's replacement. You aren't gonna replace him so don't go out of your way to.

Same as the Chris Jones debate.

You don't replace guys that are playing at a HoF level. You simply go get quality players wherever you can and adjust accordingly.

And as has been noted, Reid can make a viable TE from some pretty spare parts. I mean a guy like Engram would be a multiple time Pro Bowler here, IMO.

Irv Smith is likely to be a FA again this off-season and is 25 yrs old - you get him signed to a 3 year deal and you'll be just fine as you need to throttle TK back a bit or have him go in shorter bursts.

Then if a toolsy guy like Whyle or Tucker Kraft falls into 'bargain' range in the 3rd/4th round - okay, start taking some swings here and there.

But "OHMIGOD WE HAVE TO REPLACE KELCE SO DRAFT DALTON KINCAID!!!!" just doesn't make sense to me.

Kincaid won't be Kelce. He won't be close to Kelce. He may be good, but he ain't gonna be 'set every record there is to set' good. So don't waste your time trying to replace a guy you aren't going to be able to replace.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

For the OTs? That’a more than fair to pass some judgment already.

Because obj was a mistake. I get the trade under the circumstances but we also considered signing him after his bad first season. Taylor needs time… although it’s obviously not off to a good start.

But on the other side In back to back years we’ve bandaided one of our OT positions. And we’re using third round picks to backfill. We’ve put really low effort into addressing this spot even to the point of trusting mahomes’ blind side to a band aid. That deserves plenty of scrutiny even though it’s early.

Bullshit. Absolutely unqualified bullshit.

The guy was a dirt cheap starting caliber left tackle in a year we should've gone to the SB but/for a vapor lock by Mahomes against Cincy. He was a starting caliber LT the next year who was slightly overpaid for what he provided but brought stability to a position and a known quantity that was sufficient for us to win a SB against one of the better pass rushes the league has seen.

And it cost us the functional equivalent of a 2nd round pick. A trade down that netted us a player in Bolton that's almost certainly better than the player we may have taken with the 1st rounder had we not moved back.

"OBJ", to whatever extent that means trading for or playing him, was absolutely not a mistake by any reasonable measure. That trade was a clear win and any GM in the league would've made it 100 times out of 100 given the situation we were faced with.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

surely such a specific statement is easily backed up by quantified evidence

Just looking at the starters, 7 out of 11 were drafted by the team. That is probably league average I bet.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Same as the Chris Jones debate.

You don't replace guys that are playing at a HoF level. You simply go get quality players wherever you can and adjust accordingly.

And as has been noted, Reid can make a viable TE from some pretty spare parts. I mean a guy like Engram would be a multiple time Pro Bowler here, IMO.

Irv Smith is likely to be a FA again this off-season and is 25 yrs old - you get him signed to a 3 year deal and you'll be just fine as you need to throttle TK back a bit or have him go in shorter bursts.

Then if a toolsy guy like Whyle or Tucker Kraft falls into 'bargain' range in the 3rd/4th round - okay, start taking some swings here and there.

But "OHMIGOD WE HAVE TO REPLACE KELCE SO DRAFT DALTON KINCAID!!!!" just doesn't make sense to me.

Kincaid won't be Kelce. He won't be close to Kelce. He may be good, but he ain't gonna be 'set every record there is to set' good. So don't waste your time trying to replace a guy you aren't going to be able to replace.

I agree to not use a 1st on a guy like Kincaid, who seems to be a better version of Noah Gray but still not anywhere in the same stratosphere as Kelce.

The Chiefs do need another TE though and I think that needs to be a priority. In fact I think RB and TE is needed bc McKinnon and Kelce are old and closer to uncertainties at this point.

We're not oblivious to the fact that we need a LT, but I do think that Donovan Smith is serviceable as a fall back option.

I think we all agree on the bottom line here: Clyde sucks, McKinnon is old and we need a rotation around RB, as we do with TE bc Kelce is 35 next year with Gray being in a contract year (we won't keep him).

I think bulking those positions with quality is needed. IMO a 2nd rd TE would fit nicely