Do we want DeHop?

[ROYC75]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...9536dcd3&ei=21


Story by Andrew Gould




The Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl without a star wide receiver, but they could reportedly make an elite offense even scarier by acquiring DeAndre Hopkins.

NFL insider Benjamin Albright told PHNX Cardinals that Kansas City is the "primary suitor" for Hopkins. He doesn't know the draft compensation the Cardinals would receive, but he said it's more likely they get a second-round pick than a first.

After the 2022 season, theScore's Jordan Schultz reported that the Cardinals plan to trade Hopkins this offseason.

Arizona hired a new general manager and head coach after a disappointing four-win season, and Hopkins is set to make $19.45 million (with a $30.75 million cap hit) in 2023. The Cardinals could seek a clean slate by moving the three-time All-Pro wideout, who turns 31 in June.

Hopkins began his Cardinals career by tallying 1,407 yards and six touchdowns in 2020. However, multiple lower body injuries limited him to 10 games in 2021, and he served a six-game suspension to start the 2022 season for violating the NFL's PED policy.

Yet he remains an impact player when on the field. Hopkins totaled 474 receiving yards in six full games with quarterback Kyler Murray last season.

Now imagine what he can accomplish when catching passes from Patrick Mahomes.

The Chiefs flourished without a star replacement for Tyreek Hill, but they could still benefit by solidifying the position this offseason. JuJu Smith-Schuster is a free agent after garnering 78 catches for 933 yards on a one-year deal. The depth chart features several talented question marks in Mecole Hardman, Kadarius Toney, and Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Adding Hopkins could be great news for Kansas City, but terrible for all opposing defenses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Do we want a high priced prima donna?

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Yes, he had Travis. And not much else. And the best defenses (NE/PIT as examples) could cover Kelce well enough to force Alex to look somewhere else. In the Alex Smith days defenses were tasked with stopping Travis. This was the common theme.

Watch the tape. A large part of why Alex 'shrunk' was because in the bigger moments, a critical 3rd-and-medium, a hurry-up situation or whatever, his first read wasn't there (Travis) and he panicked or whatever we want to call it now. It doesn't matter; the point is that his first option wasn't open, and he didn't really have a second option, so he'd pull the ball down and try to run for it. Alex didn't trust anyone except Travis to get open in those moments.

But what if his first/second was? What if he had Travis and another elite pass-catcher/route-runner? If his second option was open, then it's just pitch and catch, because the vast majority of those situations didn't require a deep 30+ yard pass; he just needed to hit his back foot and throw a 5-10 yard dot, which was well within his abilities.

Remember, Alex was at his best if the throws could be triggered on time.if he could hit his back foot and deliver, most of the time he connected. He had issues when he had to go through more than two reads.

I mean this isn't calculus. Alex was basically Kirk Cousins or Dak Prescott in that they play as well as their weapons allowed. Without great weapons both of those QBs are average at best. But give them top-tier weapons and they complete more passes, convert more first downs and throw more TDs, and presto! they're operating a top-5 offense. Dak and Kirk didn't get better; they got better weapons to make them look better.

And who's talking about Mahomes? This hypothetical has nothing to do with Pat. This is strictly blue-sky theorizing about the era before Mahomes.

Theory: between the years 2013-2017, if you gave Alex Smith DHop instead of D. Bowe or Avery or whoever, he would've won more playoff games, all other things being equal. I think that's fairly obvious, considering the three playoff games i brought up were decided by a point, a TD, and 2 points respectively.


Hell, if Dhop bothers you for some reason, stick Larry Fitzgerald in there. or any technician WR. Cooper Kupp. Doug Baldwin probably would've worked.

1. He had Tyreek as well.

2. You have to bring up Pat simply to highlight the deficiencies with Alex. Mahomes thrived with the same weapons that Alex struggled with. We had teams capable of making playoff runs but were limited by Smith and while his numbers were better, Hopkins would not have moved the needle enough come playoffs. Smith had multiple leads in those playoff games and could not seal the deal. It was not because teams took away Kelce.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

1. He had Tyreek as well.

2. You have to bring up Pat simply to highlight the deficiencies with Alex. Mahomes thrived with the same weapons that Alex struggled with. We had teams capable of making playoff runs but were limited by Smith and while his numbers were better, Hopkins would not have moved the needle enough come playoffs. Smith had multiple leads in those playoff games and could not seal the deal. It was not because teams took away Kelce.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, hypothetically anyway. i know we like hating on Alex, but in reality he wasn't any worse than Fitzpatrick/Savage, probably in some ways he was better than them. So I don't see how Alex couldn't be good enough to put the ball somewhere inside DHop's catch radius on a semi-consistent basis. And Hill was great, but he was also used mostly as a deep go-route type of WR at the time (not an Alex strength) and his catch radius is pretty small, not the two-car garage hemisphere that DHop's is.

The reason Pat thrived was that he could throw deep balls and had the balls to do so at any time, again not an Alex strength.

But Alex wouldn't be in that position with Deandre. Deandre could run every route at an elite level short-to-intermediate-to-long, and had a huge catch radius that Alex could take advantage of at all levels.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that Hill wasn't much of a plus for Alex because Hill's elite attributes of speed and quickness didn't help Alex that much as an accurate short-to-intermediate level passer, which is exactly the kinds of routes that Deandre is exceptional at. Alex was most comfortable as a dink-and-dunk passer, something Deandre would've been a huge help with, while Hill was a deep route guy, a passer skillset that Alex didn't have, and so couldn't take proper advantage of.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, hypothetically anyway. i know we like hating on Alex, but in reality he wasn't any worse than Fitzpatrick/Savage, probably in some ways he was better than them. So I don't see how Alex couldn't be good enough to put the ball somewhere inside DHop's catch radius on a semi-consistent basis. And Hill was great, but he was also used mostly as a deep go-route type of WR at the time (not an Alex strength) and his catch radius is pretty small, not the two-car garage hemisphere that DHop's is.

The reason Pat thrived was that he could throw deep balls and had the balls to do so at any time, again not an Alex strength.

But Alex wouldn't be in that position with Deandre. Deandre could run every route at an elite level short-to-intermediate-to-long, and had a huge catch radius that Alex could take advantage of at all levels.

In fact, I'll go so far as to say that Hill wasn't much of a plus for Alex because Hill's elite attributes of speed and quickness didn't help Alex that much as an accurate short-to-intermediate level passer, which is exactly the kinds of routes that Deandre is exceptional at. Alex was most comfortable as a dink-and-dunk passer, something Deandre would've been a huge help with, while Hill was a deep route guy, a passer skillset that Alex didn't have, and so couldn't take proper advantage of.

There's so much wrong with this.

To say he wasn't any worse than Fitzpatrick? Agreed! Does that mean he would've won a SB or two as per your prior contention? Would Ryan Fitzpatrick have won SBs if he just had Hopkins? How did Deshaun Watson do with Hopkins in the playoffs while we're on the topic?

Next, Hill wasn't much of a plus for Alex? I guess you missed when Alex was the best deep passer in the league in 2017 entirely based on Hill's ability.

You make some seriously confusing arguments, dude, but believing in a world where the Chiefs win SBs with Smith/Hopkins is like entering Peter Pan's bedroom with the Lost Boys.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

There's so much wrong with this.

To say he wasn't any worse than Fitzpatrick? Agreed! Does that mean he would've won a SB or two as per your prior contention? Would Ryan Fitzpatrick have won SBs if he just had Hopkins? How did Deshaun Watson do with Hopkins in the playoffs while we're on the topic?

Next, Hill wasn't much of a plus for Alex? I guess you missed when Alex was the best deep passer in the league in 2017 entirely based on Hill's ability.

You make some seriously confusing arguments, dude, but believing in a world where the Chiefs win SBs with Smith/Hopkins is like entering Peter Pan's bedroom with the Lost Boys.

I didn't say he would for sure. I said he probably could have.

To be more clear, I'm saying that the added weapon of a true prototypical elite WR would've been more help than the almost strictly speed type of WR that Hill was. But give Alex both, then you have something even Alex would have a hard time screwing up. Though the playoff game vs. IND in 2014 was pre-Hill, iirc.

And yeah, we all know that for one year Alex was "the best deep passer in the league."

Excuse me if I take that with a few grains of salt. Like a 10-pound bag.

Alex was a lot of things, a precise and prolific deep ball passer wasn't ever one of them. That accolade was more smoke and mirrors than reality, and you know it, buddy. Hill made that happen, and a ton of that was just YAC after a shorter/intermediate throw.

What Alex was, and you know this, we all know it, Alex was a pretty accurate short-to-intermediate passer between the numbers that had some scrambling ability. He wasn't very accurate to the boundaries, especially beyond 20 yards. he was a timing QB, not an improv guy, that was most comfortable hitting his back foot and getting rid of the ball, on time, over the middle.

Given that;

Just watch the tape of the PIT game in 2017 (or the 2017 TEN game) and see how many times Alex double clutches then runs or whatever. Now see who he was thinking about throwing to, and imagine that guy is Deandre instead and he's wide open, because he would've been. Hell, cut it down to just 3rd down situations.

Tell me we don't win either game by 10, instead of losing by a point or two.

Now i don't remember exactly which team we would've played next anymore in either season, but I'd be comfortable believing that we win one of those games and get to the SB.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by unBelizable

Cardinals WR DeAndre Hopkins posted a video to his Instagram page suggesting he'll remain with the team in 2023.

Hopkins' video all but confirmed he'll remain with the Cardinals in 2023, saying in his video, "I see everybody telling me to stay. Who said I wanna go? Who said I wanna leave? I'm out here working baby." Hopkins shared his location in Phoenix, Arizona in his post, which seems like as good an indication as any that he'll be back with the team next season. His video comes just days after Cardinals GM Monti Ossenford said he "doesn't foresee that happening" when asked about the possibility of trading Hopkins this offseason. For now, it appears everything is in place for Hopkins to play at least one more season with the Cardinals barring any unexpected developments. The soon-to-be 31-year-old receiver produced at a high level across nine games last season with the Cardinals, totaling 64 receptions for 717 yards and three touchdowns after serving a six-game suspension for PEDs.

/thread

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by staylor26

/thread

Good. We don't need him.

[In58men]

Originally Posted by staylor26

/thread

LOCK THE THREAD!!!!

[BossChief]

Here’s some more fan fiction…buckle up and enjoy…

This whole “Dhop to KC” story was based on no more than a grand total of 45 minutes of BVs time. 2 phone calls to the team and a brief conversation with the agent to try to facilitate a trade. That’s it. Here’s how it went down. Take it for what it’s worth.

When BV originally called (on the day Arizona made it public that Hopkins may get traded) and they told him the ridiculous asking price (a second and another pick and a player) the whole conversation didn’t last more than 10 minutes. Brett hanging up saying “those guys are nuts” is literally how it ended. Brett addressed concerns, but Arizona was only interested in getting max return a year after guys like Adams and Hill get mega deals in mega trades. They completely overplayed their hand. The call was ended abruptly as the 2 sides were very far apart, but a line of communication was opened.

Then, a follow up call (after the Cooks trade) to try to talk some sense into them on what needs to happen to facilitate a trade that makes sense happened within minutes of the trade. Brett was very composed and made a quality offer of pick 135 and Willie Gay Jr for Hopkins and Arizona restructures the deal before the trade by converting 10m of the base salary for 2023 to bonus and eating the dead money. Arizona was still dead set on keeping him if they don’t get their price, but KC was firm in their offer. That’s also why KC signed Drue Tranquill. They were within hours/days of each other. Maybe the same day. Gay was going to Arizona if they could figure out the $$$stuff.

Arizona expected Hopkins to take a paycut for 5m and they would bonus him the other 5m so KC could make the contract work by restructuring it once the trade was done to help the immediate cap figure. Hopkins said to his agent at that time that he wouldn’t take a paycut to make the trade work (but that he wouldn’t want an aav raise if KC wanted to give him an extension) and Arizona chose not to cut a check for 10m to facilitate the trade and it fell apart. Willie Gay heard he might be traded and was notified that was a possibility when he voiced his concern…it was that close.

Brett called and talked directly to Hopkins agent for more than a few minutes towards the end of negotiations, trying to get him to have Deandre take a cut. Tried playing the angle of how good DHop would be in KC with Pat and how Hopkins can win a title before the window closes. It was an impressive pitch. Brett tried to explain to him *in detail* how he would make the $ back in endorsements after a Super Bowl and even during the year.. Hopkins and his agent didn’t budge, citing how that would diminish his stature by him publicly taking a paycut.

And now the whole relationship between the team and WGJ is damaged, as well. I hate to say it, but I won’t be surprised if he’s traded before or during training camp. He loves it in KC and wants to stay long term, but doesn’t feel like KC wants to keep him…and you can understand why. We might lose him for less than we think because unless he can reset his mindset, this one was a gut punch to him and the team may try to give him a chance by trading him to a team in the NFC that he would have a chance to earn a long term deal for.

It’s the reality of having a QB on a mega contract. Guys like WGJ move on to other teams and have great careers and KC replaces them with cost controlled options.

Right after the deal completely fell through and Veach knew it wasn’t going to happen, he called Pat and told him they were looking to draft him a top talent WR and that’s when Pat started having throwing sessions with a few of the guys that would be in the draft. Rice was the first one Pat called and Pat told him on the phone he thinks he’s similar to Hopkins and he flew him out to work with him for a couple days.

Brett and Pat are in constant communication and Pat had the highest praise for Rice after their sessions in how he picked up what Patrick was seeing and adjusting the way Pat wanted him to. They had a good relationship on the field. Brett asked Pat what he thinks of Johnston and Flowers and Pat watched some film of them against top competition and called them to work out with them.

Pat didn’t think Rice and Johnston were even comparable. Said “night and day” to Veach after the throwing sessions with Johnston. Basically said Rice does everything Johnston does, plus a lot more…and that he does it better.

Pat fell in LOVE with Flowers, though. Absolutely loved him…and the feeling was mutual. When Mahomes talked to Brett about Flowers, he face timed him so he could see his smile. That was BVs target for the first round going into the draft. He tried moving up to every slot after 17 to try and get him, but no AFC teams would offer their pick without overcharging and the NFC teams either stayed out or also wanted above chart value to move down to 31 because of the drop off in talent moving that far back.

The final call to move up was to Baltimore and they laughed a little on the phone and said they are taking him if we don’t send 31 and 63. A drastic overcharge because that’s how they see the player.

So BV took Felix in the first and started making calls about moving up with the 100% intention of doing whatever it takes to get Rice. Even telling Clark he’s going to get “the kid from SMU” before round 2 started.

And an NFC team helped them get to 55 by taking exact chart value in the trade.

And Patrick Mahomes gets his young Deandre Hopkins in Rice.

What an amazing time to be a Chiefs fan.

[crispystl]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Here’s some more fan fiction…buckle up and enjoy…


So BV took Felix in the first and started making calls about moving up with the 100% intention of doing whatever it takes to get Rice. Even telling Clark he’s going to get “the kid from SMU” before round 2 started.

And an NFC team helped them get to 55 by taking exact chart value in the trade.

And Patrick Mahomes gets his young Deandre Hopkins in Rice.

What an amazing time to be a Chiefs fan.

Where did you get that from?

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Had a feeling that Veach and Mahomes really liked Flowers.

I've said numerous times I thought Flowers was the best WR in the draft. So quick and fluid with his cuts. If we weren't going to get him, Rice was a great consolation prize. Mocked him to us in the 2nd.

If this story is true - and I don't see a reason to doubt it - if he has any common sense, DHop will soon regret not making it work.

[Sofa King]

Thankfully Flowers went to Baltimore where he'll never be heard from again.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by crispystl

Where did you get that from?

He wrote it himself. Really. Genuine "fan fiction."

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by TwistedChief

He wrote it himself. Really. Genuine "fan fiction."

You can say I got it from Benjamin Albright. Lol just connecting the dots like a lot of “insiders” do.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by Sofa King

Thankfully Flowers went to Baltimore where he'll never be heard from again.

Flowers isn't as good as Hollywood and Ravens never fully utilized him anyway.

[O.city]

Why would the Cardinals want Gay who's on his last year of the contract?