Do we want DeHop?

[ROYC75]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...9536dcd3&ei=21


Story by Andrew Gould




The Kansas City Chiefs won the Super Bowl without a star wide receiver, but they could reportedly make an elite offense even scarier by acquiring DeAndre Hopkins.

NFL insider Benjamin Albright told PHNX Cardinals that Kansas City is the "primary suitor" for Hopkins. He doesn't know the draft compensation the Cardinals would receive, but he said it's more likely they get a second-round pick than a first.

After the 2022 season, theScore's Jordan Schultz reported that the Cardinals plan to trade Hopkins this offseason.

Arizona hired a new general manager and head coach after a disappointing four-win season, and Hopkins is set to make $19.45 million (with a $30.75 million cap hit) in 2023. The Cardinals could seek a clean slate by moving the three-time All-Pro wideout, who turns 31 in June.

Hopkins began his Cardinals career by tallying 1,407 yards and six touchdowns in 2020. However, multiple lower body injuries limited him to 10 games in 2021, and he served a six-game suspension to start the 2022 season for violating the NFL's PED policy.

Yet he remains an impact player when on the field. Hopkins totaled 474 receiving yards in six full games with quarterback Kyler Murray last season.

Now imagine what he can accomplish when catching passes from Patrick Mahomes.

The Chiefs flourished without a star replacement for Tyreek Hill, but they could still benefit by solidifying the position this offseason. JuJu Smith-Schuster is a free agent after garnering 78 catches for 933 yards on a one-year deal. The depth chart features several talented question marks in Mecole Hardman, Kadarius Toney, and Marquez Valdes-Scantling.

Adding Hopkins could be great news for Kansas City, but terrible for all opposing defenses.
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Do we want a high priced prima donna?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

We just signed a guy to a $60M guaranteed deal. You can't tell me the Chiefs aren't willing to spend on F/A's. That's the most guaranteed money to go to an OL so far this free agency. Before that signing, NOBODY was making the argument that JaWaan Taylor for $80M, $60M GDT is a VALUE signing.

By your logic, the Chiefs were supposed to just draft his replacement.

I agree man, we have to draft and develop special players. And they have. They've also plugged holes with 1-2 year rental vets too.

I think the error in your logic is assuming it's "This one way, and this one way only".

No, i don't think the Chiefs and Veach operate so linear.

Cool. We'll see.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

You guys are thinking emotionally and not logically.

This is a fantasy.

It's not gonna happen.

Enjoy your dream. This discussion is pointless.

No. It's very logical.

JJSS is worth 10-12M to you but OBJ isn't worth $10-15?

THAT is illogical.

Again, it's a position group that needs work, the Chiefs attack position groups that need work. THAT is logical.

And again, ive asked you what these holes are that need filled, and which holes are bigger than WR?

You can make the argument for DE. That's about it.

[Chris Meck]

I'm out on this conversation. You guys have fun in fantasy land.

Which is what it is, if you're thinking OBJ is signing for $10m.

You guys have fun over here.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Cool. We'll see.

We'll see what?

Just because a deal doesn't come to fruition doesn't mean the Chiefs weren't interested. It just means other teams put a greater value on them than the Chiefs.

****, OBJ is targeting $20M a season. The Chiefs aren't gonna do that. IF OBJ can't find that on the open market, and his asking price falls, the Chiefs very well may find themselves in the discussion.

Again, the odds are greater that the Chiefs don't sign them than they do. So no, them not becoming a Chief isn't some "win", because the conversation is, "Are they in the discussion (does the money make sense) and should they be?" not, "they MUST sign this guy or else".

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'm out on this conversation. You guys have fun in fantasy land.

Which is what it is, if you're thinking OBJ is signing for $10m.

You guys have fun over here.

OBJ wants $20M. Most in NFL circles say it's a pipe dream and his demands will come down as most teams will want him on a 1 year prove it deal.

You don't know, nor do i know, what his market actually is.

There's obviously a limit on what the Chiefs can and should pay him. Maybe some desperate team like the Ravens swoop in and meet his demands. Maybe not.

But to hand wave this and say, "Oh for sure, this will NEVER happen" is pretty closed minded and not at all how i think the Chiefs operate.

The Chiefs love special players. KT, for example. But they have to operate in a manner that awards special players at good value.

Both Hopkins and OBJ can potentially be had for good value. Only time will tell.

[ToxSocks]

Here, let me put it this way:

Adams and Hopkins are the same class of player. They're very similar. I would certainly put them in the same tier.

Adams goes for $30M. Hopkins goes for $18M

That is clear and obvious VALUE.

A WR of Hopkins pedigree, in today's WR market, is worth around $30M a season as per Adam's contract.

So to get a WR of that pedigree for $12M LESS is the definition of value.

So if you're approaching this from a strictly value standpoint, how in the world is Hopkins not coming at a value price?

Value is a relative term here.

Yes, a Ferrari is too rich for my blood. And a Ferrari for $100,000 less than market price is a freakin' value purchase. Doesn't mean i can afford it. It's still value though.

And maybe the Chiefs CAN'T afford Hopkins or OBJ. IDK. Either way, it's still a value signing.

So yes, OBJ and Hopkins absolutely fit the "Value tier" logic. Value doesn't mean bottom barrel prices for bottom tier players. It's relative.

[Megatron96]

Lolz, JJSS's vs. DHop's career stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...S/SmitJu00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...H/HopkDe00.htm

It's not even close. Especially when you consider that JJSS had only two QBs throwing to him, and both are future HOFers.

And injury histories:

DHop:
https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/...e-hopkins/6679

JJSS;
https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/...-schuster/7762

Turns out, JJSS is the much more likely injury risk going into 2023. makes sense, considering he's been sidelined more often due to injury.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

OBJ wants $20M. Most in NFL circles say it's a pipe dream and his demands will come down as most teams will want him on a 1 year prove it deal.

You don't know, nor do i know, what his market actually is.

There's obviously a limit on what the Chiefs can and should pay him. Maybe some desperate team like the Ravens swoop in and meet his demands. Maybe not.

But to hand wave this and say, "Oh for sure, this will NEVER happen" is pretty closed minded and not at all how i think the Chiefs operate.

The Chiefs love special players. KT, for example. But they have to operate in a manner that awards special players at good value.

Both Hopkins and OBJ can potentially be had for good value. Only time will tell.

You're speaking as if my thought process is one sided only.

It's not.

My thought process is:

1) Cap space vs. value now and in the immediate future, as in like, the next two to three years.
2)The player's worth and/or perceived worth on the market, or in the case of a trade, the other team's concept of what that is.
3) if it's a trade, what the draft pick's value is
4) Has Veach done or said anything that might make me think this is a possibility or is it a pipe dream? Does this fit the last few years of team building?

And that's it.

And the answers on all of those tell me that no, this is incredibly unlikely. Not Dhop, and not OBJ.

Taylor's a 25 year old ascending talent that is a minor overpay if he's unable to get it done at LT, but certainly an upgrade at RT in a worst case scenario. This is a smart move with huge upside that gives the team a ton of flexibility moving forward in several scenarios. (and the deal is $40m guaranteed, by the way, we can get out of it in '25 if he were to tank-which is unlikely.)

That's not the same thing as $20m a year on either over 30 WR that hasn't finished a season in two years.

I don't know what to tell you if you don't see that. I mean, this conversation is just going in circles.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Lolz, JJSS's vs. DHop's career stats:

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...S/SmitJu00.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...H/HopkDe00.htm

It's not even close. Especially when you consider that JJSS had only two QBs throwing to him, and both are future HOFers.

And injury histories:

DHop:
https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/...e-hopkins/6679

JJSS;
https://www.draftsharks.com/fantasy/...-schuster/7762

Turns out, JJSS is the much more likely injury risk going into 2023. makes sense, considering he's been sidelined more often due to injury.

I'm out on Juju for anything north $10m, too, for that matter.

I'd rather stack Campbell into the room for less than that, and get much faster. He's played with garbage at QB. I'd bet on Patrick and Andy to get a lot more production out of him, and he's what, 25?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Here, let me put it this way:

Adams and Hopkins are the same class of player. They're very similar. I would certainly put them in the same tier.

Adams goes for $30M. Hopkins goes for $18M

That is clear and obvious VALUE.

A WR of Hopkins pedigree, in today's WR market, is worth around $30M a season as per Adam's contract.

So to get a WR of that pedigree for $12M LESS is the definition of value.

So if you're approaching this from a strictly value standpoint, how in the world is Hopkins not coming at a value price?

Value is a relative term here.

Yes, a Ferrari is too rich for my blood. And a Ferrari for $100,000 less than market price is a freakin' value purchase. Doesn't mean i can afford it. It's still value though.

And maybe the Chiefs CAN'T afford Hopkins or OBJ. IDK. Either way, it's still a value signing.

So yes, OBJ and Hopkins absolutely fit the "Value tier" logic. Value doesn't mean bottom barrel prices for bottom tier players. It's relative.

And we're paying 23% of our cap to Mahomes. That makes the whole discussion very different. But you guys are just flat ignoring that whole aspect, and the history of what a cap hit like that means to Super Bowl contention.

We bucked history in '22. Nobody's ever paid their QB over 13% and won it. Now we're going to almost double that and try again.

We'll be right there in the mix, but we're going to have to grow our own for the most part over the next couple of years.

We have the Ferrari. His name is Mahomes, and we're paying the Patrick price for him.

[NJChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

And we're paying 23% of our cap to Mahomes. That makes the whole discussion very different. But you guys are just flat ignoring that whole aspect, and the history of what a cap hit like that means to Super Bowl contention.

We bucked history in '22. Nobody's ever paid their QB over 13% and won it. Now we're going to almost double that and try again.

We'll be right there in the mix, but we're going to have to grow our own for the most part over the next couple of years.

We have the Ferrari. His name is Mahomes, and we're paying the Patrick price for him.

Most threats to beat us next year will be paying their qb the same, and definitely all of them the year after when Burrow gets locked up. That history is going to be beaten many times in years to come.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I'm out on Juju for anything north $10m, too, for that matter.

I'd rather stack Campbell into the room for less than that, and get much faster. He's played with garbage at QB. I'd bet on Patrick and Andy to get a lot more production out of him, and he's what, 25?

Meh. His stats aren't impressive. But I don't know the guy from Adam really. I've watched three highlight tapes, and pretty much all I see is that he's pretty fast.

Could Andy/Pat get more out of him? No doubt. How much more and how long will that take?

And what's the deal with him not playing? He's played in less than half of the 60+ games he could've played in. just 32 games played out of more than 60 games in his four-year career. Just 15 games played in his first three seasons. Does he also have an injury issue?

His tape is pretty thin, obviously, and he flashes some nice speed, decent hands . . . which makes him a less twitchy version of Hardman?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Most threats to beat us next year will be paying their qb the same, and definitely all of them the year after when Burrow gets locked up. That history is going to be beaten many times in years to come.

yeah, and Buffalo is where we were last off-season. They'll need to pull a Veach style draft to stay in serious contention. Bengals are a year away. The Eagles have had to let a bunch of key guys go already. The Chargers missed their window.

Jacksonville is likely to be the next riser. Glad they wasted Lawrence's first year, it makes their window shorter.

We're fine. Just keep stacking good young cost controlled talent and we'll have a shot every year.

[Rainbarrel]

let'em play with the playdough. They'll only get a tummy ache

[jerryaldini]

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Most threats to beat us next year will be paying their qb the same, and definitely all of them the year after when Burrow gets locked up. That history is going to be beaten many times in years to come.

It's going to be interesting watching the Bengals. So far they lost both safeties and Perine, re-signed Pratt on a cheap deal and haven't signed any FA. Will the Burrow effect start to show up this year in free agency? Stay tuned.