Joe "Cool" and being elite? Yeah, no.

[mr. tegu]

I admit I realize I have been overestimating him like many others. He is quite good but elite he is not and he definitely hasn't earned his "cool" moniker. And I have heard multiple pundits now say, even after yesterday he is a better QB than Mahomes, but Mahomes is the better player. Talk about moving the goalposts to fit your narrative.

I will give him credit for the Brady comparison though as he has absolutely been carried by his defense and luck like Brady was in his earlier years in winning playoff games. But Burrow isn't as clutch as Brady was even back then.

And for those who think he is even close to Mahomes:

Burrow 0 times 30 point postseason games to Mahomes 8
300 yard games is 1 to 7
TD drives in fourth quarter is a whopping 0 to 14

Good old Nick Wright has more in the video but here is a picture with the most relevant part of Burrow's fourth quarter stats in the postseason. It's remarkable the Bengals have won any games honestly in the postseason.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by wachashi

He throws the best back shoulder / sideline ball in the game. Puts defenses in a bind when he can connect on those so consistently.

Especially when he has a 6’5 Higgins

[St. Patty's Fire]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

Great. Alex Smith had the same traits. Too bad he didn't have 2-3 #1 WRs.

comparing alex smith to joe burrow is one of the dumbest ****ing things i’ve ever seen

[Rams Fan]

Flip Allen and Burrow on their teams right now.

Do you think Allen would make the Bengals better and do you think Burrow would make the Bills better?

I think Allen would keep the Bengals about the same or slightly worse since he's not as accurate and would try making plays with his feet more because the Bengals OL is not good.

I think the Bills would be better if they had Burrow.

Allen, IMO, has a higher ceiling than Burrow given his ability to run but is more volatile.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Flip Allen and Burrow on their teams right now.

Do you think Allen would make the Bengals better and do you think Burrow would make the Bills better?

I think Allen would keep the Bengals about the same or slightly worse since he's not as accurate and would try making plays with his feet more because the Bengals OL is not good.

I think the Bills would be better if they had Burrow.

Allen, IMO, has a higher ceiling than Burrow given his ability to run but is more volatile.

It's hard to say. Allen has a throwing elbow injury right now that might even need surgery in the offseason, so I am not sure how much we can truly judge his performance in the 2nd half of this season.

Generally speaking, Allen turns the ball over too much and Burrow is the more accurate passer. But that Buffalo defense is pretty damn bad in the playoffs even if the QB plays well. Take a look at their 42-36 loss to KC in the playoffs last year. Allen essentially played perfect football, while his defense got torched.

Burrow has yet to deal with a scenario like the one above. You should know this as well as anyone. Your explosive Rams offense was only able to score 23 on that Cincy defense in the Super Bowl. The Bengals defense has held KC to 23-24 points in 3 straight games as well. That type of defense is massively helpful to all QB's.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by Hamwallet

Joe Burrow is absolutely an elite QB. Stop with this BS.

Yep and he is more of a student of the game than Allen is at this point.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Ryan does have a MVP and Eli does not. But Eli has two SB rings and two SB MVPs. More than Ryan and Rivers combined. Ryan will also be remembered for the epic 28-3 collapse. Ryan is 0-1 against Brady in SBs. Eli is 2-0. Again not a good comparison.

If you accept my premise that at any point in time, there are 5 people on the planet that can play NFL QB at an elite level, this all makes more sense.

Of course there will always be debate, but the debate should be more about who gets included in the 5 in the last couple of spots.

Some guys are there every year, and those are your sure-fire hall of famers. Some guys age out. Some guys climb into that top 5 but can't maintain that level.

So Ryan absolutely had a year or two there where he was in that category. Rivers spent most of his career hovering around the cut-off point, which is what Herbert looks like he'll do so far. Lamar had a year or two there where he was in that category, but his limitations have been pretty well exposed at this point.

Eli had a couple of seasons where he was certainly there, and several more around the cut-off point, and some where he was not elite. Brady has, at this point, aged out it would appear-but christ, it took until age 45 for cryin' out loud. Manning I think fell out of that 5 his last season and smartly hung it up.

Hurts climbed up in there this season. Will that last? Dunno.

But Mahomes/Burrow/Allen are certainly elite, and you can argue the other two slots, but arguing the top 3 is kind of silly right now.

You can argue that Mahomes is MORE elite, and I'd personally agree, but there's not a question of whether Burrow and Allen qualify as 'elite'.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire

comparing alex smith to joe burrow is one of the dumbest ****ing things i’ve ever seen

I didn't compare the two, Smith was just one of the many examples I could've used. Excellent accuracy and ball placement aren't new to the NFL. Those things aren't even uncommon.

At this point in time, Mahomes is the only elite QB in the NFL IMO, but if you must call Burrow elite, then we need a new adjective for Mahomes. The gap between them is massive.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I didn't compare the two, Smith was just one of the many examples I could've used. Excellent accuracy and ball placement aren't new to the NFL. Those things aren't even uncommon.

At this point in time, Mahomes is the only elite QB in the NFL IMO, but if you must call Burrow elite, then we need a new adjective for Mahomes. The gap between them is massive.

I don't think Smith was particularly special in his accuracy or ball placement, and he made up for that by having an average arm in terms of velocity and range. Pre-shoulder injury Smith was perhaps different, I don't really remember as he was a 49'er then with a different OC every year.

And the only adjective for Mahomes is: THE BEST WE'VE EVER SEEN.

I think that's pretty fair.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Look, I didn't even like Burrow as an NFL prospect, really. I thought he was a one year wonder who played on a loaded team. I thought he was way overhyped.

But that guy doesn't throw dimes, he throws ****ing pebbles. Those aren't 50/50 balls, they're 80/20 and it's not all due to the WR's although they're great, but look again. There's no separation. Burrow just puts it in a six inch window from 30 yards away on the fly, and he does it regularly.

He's great. And in any other situation, we'd love that guy so much it would hurt.

But we've got Mahomes, and that's a whole different situation.
Burrow is QB2.

Look at it this way.

His accuracy is good enough that he PURPOSEFULLY underthrows balls to force a potential DPI situation. With most guys in the NFL, it's happenstance, not by design.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Eli has a .500 record as a starter and his stats overall are mid.

He benefited from a legendary performance from his defense in 2007.

Ryan also has a MVP.

Matt Ryan is a compiler. He played great for a few seasons but for the most part, he was a high end game manager.

He's not a HOF'er.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Matt Ryan is a compiler. He played great for a few seasons but for the most part, he was a high end game manager.

He's not a HOF'er.

I agree with that completely. Fits my '5 elite guys at any one point in time' theory.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

To me, to be considered elite, a QB's play has to elevate those around him. I'd argue Rivers and Ryan both did that.

I agree with almost all of your post. Except for this part.

[KC_Lee]

Sorry if Q.

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

If you accept my premise that at any point in time, there are 5 people on the planet that can play NFL QB at an elite level, this all makes more sense.

Of course there will always be debate, but the debate should be more about who gets included in the 5 in the last couple of spots.

Some guys are there every year, and those are your sure-fire hall of famers. Some guys age out. Some guys climb into that top 5 but can't maintain that level.

So Ryan absolutely had a year or two there where he was in that category. Rivers spent most of his career hovering around the cut-off point, which is what Herbert looks like he'll do so far. Lamar had a year or two there where he was in that category, but his limitations have been pretty well exposed at this point.

Eli had a couple of seasons where he was certainly there, and several more around the cut-off point, and some where he was not elite. Brady has, at this point, aged out it would appear-but christ, it took until age 45 for cryin' out loud. Manning I think fell out of that 5 his last season and smartly hung it up.

Hurts climbed up in there this season. Will that last? Dunno.

But Mahomes/Burrow/Allen are certainly elite, and you can argue the other two slots, but arguing the top 3 is kind of silly right now.

You can argue that Mahomes is MORE elite, and I'd personally agree, but there's not a question of whether Burrow and Allen qualify as 'elite'.

Part of your problem is thinking that the current crop of players has to have someone that is in that elite group. Could not be further from the truth.

Someone can be the best currently playing their position but that does not make them an elite player.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by penguinz

Part of your problem is thinking that the current crop of players has to have someone that is in that elite group. Could not be further from the truth.

Someone can be the best currently playing their position but that does not make them an elite player.

That makes no sense at all, unless you want to have a different definition of 'elite'. I don't know what that definition could possibly be, unless it's multiple rings, and expecting a bunch of guys in their mid twenties to have that is pretty ridiculous.

I define elite QB play as top 5 QB, probable HOF type QB's.

I think that's a perfectly reasonable definition. What's yours?