***Official 2021 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

2021 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

1. Tommy Edman (S) - 2B
2. Paul Goldschmidt (R) - 1B
3. Nolan Arenado (R) - 3B
4. Paul DeJong (R) - SS
5. Tyler O'Neill (R) - LF
6. Yadier Molina (R) - C
7. Dylan Carlson (S) - CF
8. Justin Williams (L) - RF
9. Pitcher

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year.....

2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

He was given literally dogshit to deal with in the bullpen.

I get the criticism with Reyes-but that’s like complaining about a broken toilet on a sinking ship.

The offense went 0-11 with RISP. The bullpen was Frankenstein’s monster. A historic streak led to them even making the play-in game.

It took a miracle for the team to accomplish what it did. Shildt leaving in McFarland or using a AAAA guy(Flaherty or Hudson wouldn’t have been used and shouldn’t have been seen as viable options in a mid-inning situation) wouldn’t have made a difference.

He had other options that were obviously better, stop making excuses for it because thats all you are doing. And the win streak had jack and shit to do with Schildt they just got hot and went on a burner.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Can I hate Jim Edmonds being an announcer because I think he’s an actual piece of shit human being?

Or does that mean I’m stupid.

Jim Edmonds is the only person on the broadcast in 20 years who provides legitimate insight.

I won't object to someone disliking him personally, but to overlook his obvious contributions to the booth has you missing out on an opportunity to legitimately learn about the game.

I've never heard anything from Dan or Thompson or Horton or Al that wasn't self-evident. I know a fair amount about the game and at least twice a week Edmonds teaches me something.

He's a genuinely excellent color guy.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

He had other options that were obviously better, stop making excuses for it because thats all you are doing. And the win streak had jack and shit to do with Schildt they just got hot and went on a burner.

See, I don’t really think he did, though. DJ mentioned Whitley, but has he proven himself to be capable of handling that situation?

I would’ve left McFarland in. I didn’t like any alternative other than that.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Jim Edmonds is the only person on the broadcast in 20 years who provides legitimate insight.

I won't object to someone disliking him personally, but to overlook his obvious contributions to the booth has you missing out on an opportunity to legitimately learn about the game.

I've never heard anything from Dan or Thompson or Horton or Al that wasn't self-evident. I know a fair amount about the game and at least twice a week Edmonds teaches me something.

He's a genuinely excellent color guy.

I don’t doubt that, but his personal shit, along with Dan’s(who I’ll admit has turned his life around after being given multiple opportunities and kept his job for nepotism purposes) rubs me the wrong way.

I can’t stand Al or Brad. I like Horton a lot.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

He had other options that were obviously better, stop making excuses for it because thats all you are doing. And the win streak had jack and shit to do with Schildt they just got hot and went on a burner.

No - he had ONE guy that was maybe a better option. Maybe.

You can't send Flaherty or Hudson out there - you just can't. That's the same shit Matheny did with Wacha and was justifiably barbecued for it. Those are 'clean inning' pitchers who need to know well in advance when they're going in. Those are guys who have started literally their entire careers - you can't just have them hot in a single batter.

Whitley was the one guy who was a better option. Oh, and by the way, Whitley had a 6 ERA in the first half. It was Shildt who got him back on the horse, worked him back into shape through lower leverage spots to rehab his confidence and then ultimately moved him into high leverage roles. But/for the work of Shildt to get Whitley back into form, you'd have even less to complain about.

Shildt was a victim of his own success in the post-season. It's no different than dipshit Philly fans who blamed Reid for not winning a SB with McNabb - the only reason he had that kind of show was the excellent work he did in making McNabb appear better than he was.

No, I'm not going to pretend that a guy who averaged a 91 win/season clip with a roster that was about 40% wasted payroll is a terrible manager because he went to a high-strikeout reliever in the 9th after he made the right call in going to Gallegos in the 8th only to see him get hurt (and he STILL made that into a smart decision by sending Gallegos out there knowing he wouldn't pitch to get LAD to burn Lux off the bench).

Shildt is a damn good manager. I've laid out a myriad of reasons why and in response I get one pitching decision and a whopping 14 games started in the 2nd half of the season from Matt Carpenter. Nevermind the fact that Carpenter starting wasn't a Shildt problem - it was a result of the fact that Carpenter was somehow the best LH alternative Shildt had available. "BUT HE BATTED CARPENTER CLEANUP!!" - 4 times. 16 ABs from the cleanup spot over the entire damn season. Oh, and Carpenter had a .438 OBP in those situations, for what that's worth.

But yeah - terrible manager. Counsel made a more egregious decision w/ the early hook for Woodruff and bizarre reliance on a gassed Ashby to lose their series against a team that was half as good as the Dodgers - guess it's time to fire him. Kapler lost game 5 with a dude who was in the minors with a 7.59 ERA in August on the bump - guess we gotta fire his ass, too. MIKE TAUCHMANN BATTED CLEANUP THAT ONE TIME!! HE HAD A .178 BATTING AVERAGE!! TOMMY LASTELLA GOT 240 PLATE APPEARANCES WITH A .308 OBP - FIRE KAPLER.

Just rank ignorance.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

See, I don’t really think he did, though. DJ mentioned Whitley, but has he proven himself to be capable of handling that situation?

I would’ve left McFarland in. I didn’t like any alternative other than that.

No, he didn't.

And you're absolutely right regarding Whitley - to whatever extent he'd proven anything, Shildt played a key role in coaxing that out of him after an awful start to the year. Again - Kapler did the same thing with Doval in San Fran (who had a very similar season to Whitley early and like Whitley had turned things around into September) and Doval lost the game for him. This idea that Shildt had some magic bullet is just asinine.

The problem with leaving McFarland in is that he's pretty defenseless against righties at this point in his career. He doesn't throw hard enough to get it inside on them so he has to nibble. Then you look at Taylor who even in off years hits lefties extremely hard and you've got a real matchup disadvantage there.

Meanwhile Taylor's bat has been extremely slow most of the season and righties can either throw it past him or knock the bat out of his hands. Reyes and his fastball was actually a really good matchup for an aggressive hitter who struggles against high velocity righties, especially with the movement Reyes gets on his fastball.

You want someone to blame - how 'bout you blame everyone's sweet baboo, Yadier Molina? Reyes stayed on top of his first slider to get a swinging strike. Then he backed up his second slider and it frisbeed for a ball. You could see him open up and slice around the pitch as he delivered it. When Yadi sees that Reyes slider isn't consistent because he's released it two different ways, he has to take note of that.

He didn't. He called for a third slider to a guy with a slider speed bat who'd just been able to get his bat slowed down by seeing two consecutive sliders. Then Yadi boxes the throw down when Belligner steals 2nd. At that point he has no business going back to the slider - he needs to attack Taylor because now he knows Taylor's going to be looking for something to hack at in an RBI spot and with Reyes late movement, even a pitch that runs out of the zone (as most of Reyes do) is going to coax soft contact.

Reyes was a fine matchup call for Taylor. Not exactly what I'd have done, but eminently defensible. Then Yadi failed to execute on the SB attempt and did a poor job with pitch selection against a hitter who you just cannot throw 3 sliders to when you're obviously able to overmatch him.

But hey - fire Shildt. Terrible manager or something.

[DJ's left nut]

Harrison Bader has had known coachibility issues his entire MLB career - plays the entire month of September like it's game 7 of the World Series and "Shildt had Jack Shit to do with it..." His 22 yr old RFer who'd struggled with his confidence in run production situations all season becomes a key RBI bat after Shildt shows confidence in him but nah - nothing. Edmundo Sosa is given the keys to SS and is a critical energy guy, defensive stalwart and out of nowhere offensive contributor to lengthen the order - **** that Shildt guy, he wasn't the one who put him in the starting lineup or anything.

The streak is fueled by Tyler O'Neill who went supernova when moved into the 3 hole which gave Goldschmidt more pitches to hit and Arenado more RBI opportunities nd Dylan Carlson got moved into the 5 and blossomed - "Shildt had nothing to do with it"

Guy's dealing with a starting staff that you have to be SUPER cautious with because it's a bunch of old dudes with fringe stuff or a rookie with only two pitches so you have to be really aware on your hook, especially as they get through the order a 3rd time - "Shildt had nothing to do with it". And because of that hook, you have to get through 3-4 relievers most nights without finding one that will lose it for you - "Shildt. Jack. Shit."

****ing ignorant. Just weapons grade stupidity.

[DJ's left nut]

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/colu...cab719ff8.html

This is why Shildt got fired and it had nothing to do with his ability as a manager.

He didn't kiss the ring so he got canned.

This is the money quote. This is thing I said the organization REALLY lost when it lost Larussa:

Some of this was roster-related. Multiple times this season Shildt made comments about his team doing the best it could with what it had. The front office is not a fan of a manager lobbying for upgrades, publicly or privately. Problem is, that’s exactly why the Cardinals need a manager who does just that, because it provides some pressure on the front office to improve during a season, which is the one thing the Cardinals have struggled to do or refrained from even trying to do in recent seasons. Shildt did not campaign from the start. He used to say such things were above his pay grade. He began to speak more freely this season. Some fans failed to interpret his pleas. The front office didn’t.

The problem is now we'll never have it as long as Mozeliak is here because he now how plenary authority to fire anyone that dares seek it out. LaRussa challenged his front office and the front office had to respond because LaRussa was the louder voice. Now he's never going to run that risk again. He saw the potential and snuffed it out.

There's some fermi paradox analogues or even fascism ones, but they're both belaboring the point. Bottom line is that this is going to be an organization full of mincy little yes men until Mozeliak is gone. And Mozeliak isn't going to be gone until DeWitt is.

****ing John Mozeliak.

[George Liquor]

Dj is on fire itt

[Rams Fan]

John Mozeliak has entered King Carl territory.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

John Mozeliak has entered King Carl territory.

He's entered Scott Pioli territory.

Walt was King Carl. He rebuilt the organization and was responsible for a significant turnaround. Then he got a bit stale and it was time to move on.

Then came in the new hotness who for a few years coasted on the performance of his underlings and used it to seize control of an organization. And as it turns out, he's a power hungry and incompetent clown who has no ability to self-criticize but has managed to snow the owner into believing he's something more than a snake-oil salesman.

Carl deserves credit for what he accomplished even if he eventually overstayed his welcome. Mozeliak, like Pioli, has never done anything but take credit for the work of others.

**** that mother****er. I hope he goes drinking in the Dominican. Chode.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He's entered Scott Pioli territory.

Walt was King Carl. He rebuilt the organization and was responsible for a significant turnaround. Then he got a bit stale and it was time to move on.

Then came in the new hotness who for a few years coasted on the performance of his underlings and used it to seize control of an organization. And as it turns out, he's a power hungry and incompetent clown who has no ability to self-criticize but has managed to snow the owner into believing he's something more than a snake-oil salesman.

Carl deserves credit for what he accomplished even if he eventually overstayed his welcome. Mozeliak, like Pioli, has never done anything but take credit for the work of others.

**** that mother****er. I hope he goes drinking in the Dominican. Chode.

I dunno man. Mo makes the POs more often than Walt did and hasn’t had a losing season. You could argue this team hasn’t really contended for a WS since 2015 and everything else after that is comparable to King Carl’s latter years.

Walt won a WS his second to last season before getting booted to keep Luhnow.

Mo doesn’t care about winning a WS at this point in his tenure, similar to King Carl near the end just wanting butts in the seats without doing a rebuild. Walt said **** the future if it means contending today.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I dunno man. Mo makes the POs more often than Walt did and hasn’t had a losing season. You could argue this team hasn’t really contended for a WS since 2015 and everything else after that is comparable to King Carl’s latter years.

Walt won a WS his second to last season before getting booted to keep Luhnow.

Mo doesn’t care about winning a WS at this point in his tenure, similar to King Carl near the end just wanting butts in the seats without doing a rebuild. Walt said **** the future if it means contending today.

The major distinction between Pioli and Mozeliak is that Mozeliak took over a recent WS champion with a loaded farm system. Pioli took over a team that Herm Edwards had steered off the cliff.

Can you imagine how bad this team would be had Mozeliak stepped into the same sort of situation Pioli did? No Pujols, Carpenter, Molina or Wainwright? The guy's first managerial hire was Mike !@#$ing Matheny - how's that not stride for stride with Todd Haley for raw stupidity?

Mozeliak is nothing but a product of the labors of smarter men.

[Marco Polo]

The wrong guy left. Should’ve fired Mo and Albert. This is not a good thing for St. Louis fans. This was a clear power struggle and bow tie wins as usual. Unfortunately it’s the only thing he’s good at.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No - he had ONE guy that was maybe a better option. Maybe.

You can't send Flaherty or Hudson out there - you just can't. That's the same shit Matheny did with Wacha and was justifiably barbecued for it. Those are 'clean inning' pitchers who need to know well in advance when they're going in. Those are guys who have started literally their entire careers - you can't just have them hot in a single batter.

Whitley was the one guy who was a better option. Oh, and by the way, Whitley had a 6 ERA in the first half. It was Shildt who got him back on the horse, worked him back into shape through lower leverage spots to rehab his confidence and then ultimately moved him into high leverage roles. But/for the work of Shildt to get Whitley back into form, you'd have even less to complain about.

Shildt was a victim of his own success in the post-season. It's no different than dipshit Philly fans who blamed Reid for not winning a SB with McNabb - the only reason he had that kind of show was the excellent work he did in making McNabb appear better than he was.

No, I'm not going to pretend that a guy who averaged a 91 win/season clip with a roster that was about 40% wasted payroll is a terrible manager because he went to a high-strikeout reliever in the 9th after he made the right call in going to Gallegos in the 8th only to see him get hurt (and he STILL made that into a smart decision by sending Gallegos out there knowing he wouldn't pitch to get LAD to burn Lux off the bench).

Shildt is a damn good manager. I've laid out a myriad of reasons why and in response I get one pitching decision and a whopping 14 games started in the 2nd half of the season from Matt Carpenter. Nevermind the fact that Carpenter starting wasn't a Shildt problem - it was a result of the fact that Carpenter was somehow the best LH alternative Shildt had available. "BUT HE BATTED CARPENTER CLEANUP!!" - 4 times. 16 ABs from the cleanup spot over the entire damn season. Oh, and Carpenter had a .438 OBP in those situations, for what that's worth.

But yeah - terrible manager. Counsel made a more egregious decision w/ the early hook for Woodruff and bizarre reliance on a gassed Ashby to lose their series against a team that was half as good as the Dodgers - guess it's time to fire him. Kapler lost game 5 with a dude who was in the minors with a 7.59 ERA in August on the bump - guess we gotta fire his ass, too. MIKE TAUCHMANN BATTED CLEANUP THAT ONE TIME!! HE HAD A .178 BATTING AVERAGE!! TOMMY LASTELLA GOT 240 PLATE APPEARANCES WITH A .308 OBP - FIRE KAPLER.

Just rank ignorance.

He could have used Lester, Happ, or anyone but Reyes FFS. "You just can't" isn't a valid excuse. You know who you just cant send into that situation? Alex ****ing Ryes. The excuses about the bullpen in that situation are just that, excuses. They had 2 days off before the game and would have had 2 after the game. There weren't only 2 options. Who closed the game for LA last night? Was it a bullpen guy? No it was Scherzer.

Carpenter had 207 at bats this season playing worse than last season when he had fewer so stop with your downplaying it. And Schildt was batting him in the middle of the goddamn lineup. That's firing territory alone just for being a goddman dumbass.

And it sounds like you should be impressed with Albert since the offense is the only thing that woke up in September.

Schildt is the Alex Smith of managers. And yea Mo should be gone too.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

He could have used Lester, Happ, or anyone but Reyes FFS. "You just can't" isn't a valid excuse. You know who you just cant send into that situation? Alex ****ing Ryes. The excuses about the bullpen in that situation are just that, excuses. They had 2 days off before the game and would have had 2 after the game. There weren't only 2 options. Who closed the game for LA last night? Was it a bullpen guy? No it was Scherzer.

If we're being quite honest, putting Happ, Lester, or Reyes in that situation is pretty much playing a game of Russian roulette. Happ and Lester should have been nowhere near a playoff team's roster in 2021. Scherzer is actually a good pitcher. Happ and Lester are not.

And the situation you painted with Scherzer is completely different. Scherzer came in a closing situation at the start of an inning.

The Cardinals, if things had worked out well after McFarland, would have gone to extras, at which point I'd have wanted Hudson and Flaherty.

There's literally no one in the rotation that I'd want to handle that situation except for Wainwright(who started) and MAYBE Mikolas.

The excuses aren't excuses. Mozeliak literally gave Shildt dog shit to work with in the bullpen aside from 3, maybe 4, relievers who were available that night (which he used before the 9th).