***Official 2021 STL Cardinals Thread***

[BigRedChief]

2021 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

1. Tommy Edman (S) - 2B
2. Paul Goldschmidt (R) - 1B
3. Nolan Arenado (R) - 3B
4. Paul DeJong (R) - SS
5. Tyler O'Neill (R) - LF
6. Yadier Molina (R) - C
7. Dylan Carlson (S) - CF
8. Justin Williams (L) - RF
9. Pitcher

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year.....

2020 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273
2019 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239
2018 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812
2012 Thread
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619
etc.
All the way back to 2006 WS
https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Not apples to apples.

You had several top prospects already playing at a high level. Giving up 1 of 6 top prospects that were already playing at Wrigley to win a WS for the first time in 100+ years was a move any team would have made.

Gorman is the only player we have that could possibly be at a Bryant/Baez/Rizzo level. We need more of those, not trade away the only one we have currently.

Isn't/wasnt Carlson a higher rated prospect?

I don't think Arenado is going to hang around through 2 opt outs hoping a guy in AA is the difference maker. He might stick around this offseason on the promise that the Cardinals make moves because this FA is pretty loaded, but they better actually make the moves.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Isn't/wasnt Carlson a higher rated prospect?

I don't think Arenado is going to hang around through 2 opt outs hoping a guy in AA is the difference maker. He might stick around this offseason on the promise that the Cardinals make moves because this FA is pretty loaded, but they better actually make the moves.

Yes, Carlson has an All-Star ceiling too but he doesnt look to be a basher.


I've heard that there is not a 2nd year opt-out. There is only the one this year. The MLB PA wanted a 2nd year. But, who knows if thats true? Regardless, if you have talent, and your not happy, opt-out or not, you can get yourself traded in MLB.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Yes, Carlson has an All-Star ceiling too but he doesnt look to be a basher.


I've heard that there is not a 2nd year opt-out. There is only the one this year. The MLB PA wanted a 2nd year. But, who knows if thats true? Regardless, if you have talent, and your not happy, opt-out or not, you can get yourself traded in MLB.

He had only one opt out. He agreed to waive his NTC to be traded to the Cardinals and in return the Cardinals had to agree to give him a second opt out. He can opt out after this year or next year.

He said its unlikely he'll use either of them because its probably unlikely he'll get more money, but he was also rumored to want a trade because the Rockies didn't make good on their promise to spend money to try and win. I can see him changing his tune on those opt outs if he sees the same shit coming from the Cardinals.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

He had only one opt out. He agreed to waive his NTC to be traded to the Cardinals and in return the Cardinals had to agree to give him a second opt out. He can opt out after this year or next year.

Yes, thats what was reported at the time but several times when asked about the 2nd year, everyone is very vague or don't give a straight answer to the 2nd year question.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Yes, thats what was reported at the time but several times when asked about the 2nd year, everyone is very vague or don't give a straight answer to the 2nd year question.

It's literally reported in every publication of the deal. It's not even a question. He has 2 opt outs.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/st-louis...arenado-12643/

And here's fangraphs breaking it all down and discussing the odds of him opting out:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/valuing-...-new-contract/

TLDR: if he stays on ZiPS projections they give him an 79.4% chance of not opting out. If he improves and doesn't follow along the standard age curve regression they give him 49.5% chance of not opting out. In the end, if he improves, they just expect him to leverage his opt outs like Kershaw and get the Cardinals to give him a new deal.

As it stands, Arenado is well on pace to go way past his ZiPS projection of 3.5 WAR for 2021. He's already at 2. Assuming he doesn't get injured and plays at least 150 games he's on pace for 4.6 WAR.

[Marcellus]

Bunch of mental midgets on this team. Carlson not sliding like an idiot cost them the tying run.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

Bunch of mental midgets on this team. Carlson not sliding like an idiot cost them the tying run.

why should they play sharp baseball? Management allowed Carp to continue to have AB’s for 2 ****ing years hitting <.100.

The players that give them the best chance to win are not on the field. Talk about sending the wrong message. Why play your best when management doesn’t care if the best team is on the field?

[Marco Polo]

We might actually win one tonight.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

We might actually win one tonight.

At least this year we are beating the teams that we should beat. But..... we cant beat or hang with the good teams consistently. Way too much talent discrepancy between us and those top teams.

[BigRedChief]

So Waino is the first to admit to using a foreign substance in 2019. He goes public because there is physical evidence he paid the guy for “kale”. Now he’s singing to MLB about the pitchers he supplied the substance too. Your busted. You confess. That doesn’t make Waino a “stand up” guy.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

So Waino is the first to admit to using a foreign substance in 2019. He goes public because there is physical evidence he paid the guy for “kale”. Now he’s singing to MLB about the pitchers he supplied the substance too. Your busted. You confess. That doesn’t make Waino a “stand up” guy.

I dont think its particularly stand up of him but I tell you it makes me think if Waino was doing it, everyone is doing it.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

I dont think its particularly stand up of him but I tell you it makes me think if Waino was doing it, everyone is doing it.

the manager was calling him brave and a stand up guy for confessing publicly. He had no choice. The guy who got busted and is singing has the records of payment from Waino’s verified personal account. MLB has the evidence.

Waino has always had one of the best curve balls. If he’s doing it to keep up with the rest of the pitchers, you know it was widespread on all clubs.

[jd1020]

Yadier had a baseball stick to his chest protector. Pretty sure everyone knew what was going on.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Yadier had a baseball stick to his chest protector. Pretty sure everyone knew what was going on.

of course, because everyone was doing it. No one got mad or snitched on one another. If you wanted to cheat, go for it. Same as the steroid era.

Houston cheating was different. That went against the code.

[jd1020]

A lot of pitchers probably use something but I don't know how many use something that would cause a baseball to physically stick to a flat chest protector and defy gravity. That was ridiculous and MLB just laughed it off like everyone else and said no foul play here ladies and gentlemen.