Let's talk about the 49ers (Super Bowl Edition)

[TLO]

Well Chiefs vs Packers is what I had hoped for, but that's not happening.

Let's talk about Chiefs vs 49ers here.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by wachashi

This is a dumb question. Gameplans change week-to-week based on the opponent. There isn't some secret stack of surefire winning plays kept behind "break in case of emergency" glass. Teams use the best stuff they got every week, based on the opponent.

Y'know, I'd ordinarily agree with you.

But Reid's a different cat, man. If someone said "oh no, Andy has about 10 plays he's been working on over the course of the last decade that he KNOWS will work and refuses to use them unless it's in a conference championship game or SB...." I would totally believe him.

Reid's just unique. I could absolutely see him having a 'secret stack of surefire winning plays' that he keeps tucked away like Coach Klein's playbook.

[OKchiefs]

Where does this narrative come from that the 49ers have this completely dominant defense? Since week 9 they've given up roughly 26 points a game, so roughly half a season. Yes they've been decent in the playoffs against Minnesota and Green Bay, but neither Minnesota or Green Bay is better than league average on offense. New Orleans has roughly similar offensive firepower to KC and look what they did to that vaunted defense.

And as far as their offense goes, they're a better version of the Titans. Through 2 postseason games Garoppolo has 208 yards and 1 TD/1 INT. They've gotten by with dominant running. IFFFFFFF we can slow down the run game they're not that explosive. Double Kittle and sell out to stop the run. I'm not saying this is an easy game but SF isn't this behemoth the media has made them out to be.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

I don’t need Andy Reid to tell me what a big part of the game plan is going to be, especially early on. There will be plenty of screen passes, a few at least. They did it against SFs hyperaggressive front last year and I expect no different now that their rush is even more dangerous. They have to slow that rush down just a tick and Andy know that.

[The Franchise]

Their best hope is flood the zones and get pressure with their front 4.

[Clyde Frog]

NTTAWWT


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[BangbangNinerGang]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Maybe the reason you're not getting the reaction you're looking for, in terms of conversation, is that you're saying stuff with your Niners glasses on like its fact...

Things such as "little chance to go to his second or third read based on their pass rush ability."

Based on what? Yes, the 49ers have a good defensive line. Have you considered how KC's offensive line matches up?

The Chiefs have an excellent pass protecting OL. RT Mitchell Schwartz has been going against elite LE for years and has consistently won those matchups and limited those players.

Khalil Mack, Von Miller, and Joey Bosa ... nonimpact guys against KC with Mahomes under center. Miller and Mack have sacks against KC in that timeframe - and a grand total of 2.5 in 6 games played - but not when lined up on their traditional left side, against Schwartz. Bosa has never sacked Patrick Mahomes.

Eric Fisher is a good LT and is particularly good against finesse rushers like Dee Ford. If you put a power guy on him, he can be leveraged with the bull rush on occasion. James Harrison owned his soul, specifically. Arik Armstead lined up on Fisher actually is probably San Francisco's best matchup against these two; does he line up much on the right side for you? He's been LE every game I've watched this year (5-6).

The interior of the Chiefs' OL isn't special, especially in the run game, but it does a good job in the passing attack. The one time since Mahomes became QB that pressure was a REAL probably was facing off against Aaron Donald last year. DeForest Buckner is a star, but he isn't Aaron Donald when it comes to interior pass rushing. He's not even close to the best interior pass rusher playing in the Super Bowl (that guy wears #95 for KC).

The 49ers front four is good, no doubt. But expecting them to win so consistently and easily against KC that Mahomes is limited to first reads is silly - because it isn't based in fact.

Niners run a Wide 9 scheme with the front four with Bosa on the outside and Ford on the inside of the strong side. Bosa has been making fools of Pro-Bowl tackles all year. This has been the biggest success for the D-line and if your interior line is lacking, Dee and Buck could have huge days.

[Halfcan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

According to who?

I mean c'mon, let's be fair here. Most people knew full well that the Texans had struggled all season to generate a pass rush and had an iffy (at best) secondary. As for the 'run-stuffing' Titans - folks largely hand-waived that because who cares? The Chiefs don't run the football.

C'mon - this is NOTHING like the Texans or Titans games. Those defenses were drawing dead. The 49ers front 4 most assuredly isn't. It'll be the best DL we've played this year, Ravens and Patriots included.

The biggest thing to point out on the 49ers is that they are a heavy zone team in the secondary and you just cannot play zone against this team. Mahomes will dissect it. The Niners benched their CB2 and their CB1 has absolutely no prayer of hanging in man against any of our WRs. They know they'll have to disguise looks and hope to fool Mahomes w/ some sort of exotic zone looks.

But I don't see it happening. Kid's seeing the game in slow-motion right now and I don't see anyone fooling him.

JJ Watt! That is all the media talked about. They were sure he was going to dominate. Instead, he was gassed. The point was- our running game has been carving them up when it counts. The jet sweeps have been huge, plus they have to account for Mahomes burning them with his legs now.

49ers will get some pressure with their front for, but I don't think they can cover Hill deep or will have an answer for Kelce gutting them in the middle. Our Oline has been playing out of their minds as well.

How are they going to counter Williams catching passes out of the backfield? You can't sleep on this guy at all. They try to blitz, Mahomes will dump off to Williams, who can take it to the house.

The last 2 Defensive Coordinators retired after facing us- I have serious doubts the 49ers are going to shut us down.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

Where does this narrative come from that the 49ers have this completely dominant defense? Since week 9 they've given up roughly 26 points a game, so roughly half a season. Yes they've been decent in the playoffs against Minnesota and Green Bay, but neither Minnesota or Green Bay is better than league average on offense. New Orleans has roughly similar offensive firepower to KC and look what they did to that vaunted defense.

And as far as their offense goes, they're a better version of the Titans. Through 2 postseason games Garoppolo has 208 yards and 1 TD/1 INT. They've gotten by with dominant running. IFFFFFFF we can slow down the run game they're not that explosive. Double Kittle and sell out to stop the run. I'm not saying this is an easy game but SF isn't this behemoth the media has made them out to be.

What I heard on ESPN (I think) was that in recent weeks SF got like 5-6 guys Back from injury, most of those being on defense. So even though their stats for the last 6 weeks or so of the season make them a bottom tier defense, those numbers aren't representative of what their defense is right now.

They did stone Cook. Which killed the Vikings O. But we know how average that Vikings OL really is. But from the bits of the game that I saw, the SF DL is legit. They are very fast and well-coached.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19

I don’t need Andy Reid to tell me what a big part of the game plan is going to be, especially early on. There will be plenty of screen passes, a few at least. They did it against SFs hyperaggressive front last year and I expect no different now that their rush is even more dangerous. They have to slow that rush down just a tick and Andy know that.

You’re going to see a Hardman screen for a TD.

[duncan_idaho]

Don't say I won't give you what you want.

Originally Posted by BangbangNinerGang

Hey Chief's fans,
49er fan here, looking to engage in some friendly banter. Congrats on making it to the Super Bowl, I think this is going to be a great match up. Obviously I think we will win and here are some takes on us and some questions from you:

- Everyone thinks Jimmy is mediocre, and if you do, you are simply relying on big talking pundits based out to the east coast who don't have knowledge depth. He is poised, confident, and with Shanny calling the plays can do some serious damage with the schemes they have. But yes, I do give the QB edge to you.

I have watched the Niners play multiple times this year. Generally to root for losses to improve the Chiefs' second round pick in the upcoming draft. Whoops on that one.

This is a franchise - and especially this message board - that has seen every type of game manager possible. We may not be able to tell you exactly what a game manager is, but we know one when we see one. Garoppolo is one.

He's a good one - upper end. Similar to Jared Goff or Alex Smith during his days with Andy Reid (2017 Alex Smith is a good comparison with the dynamic run game and huge weapons at WR and TE). He's a top 10-15ish QB in the NFL.

But he doesn't scare people because we haven't seen him succeed at a high level when things are not lined up for him. Lots of QBs can look good with dynamic playcalling and weapons.

KC has also done really well - its best, actually - in its matchups with less mobile QBs, the category Garoppolo would fall into. Spagnuolo is creative at blitzing from anywhere/everywhere and disguising it very effectively.

This has worked against veteran QBs who are masters at diagnosing and shifting protection - guys like Tom Brady and Philip Rivers. That bodes well for making it worse against a more green QB like Garoppolo.

- We have had good experience playing similar qb's to Maholmes that will prepare us well for this game, Wilson (X2), Murray (X2), and Lamar, for a 3-2 record. I see Maholmes the most like Wilson, who has caused us fits regularly.

First, let me clarify something: There are no similarities between Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes, except for winning the MVP in their first full season as NFL starters. Jackson is a dynamic QB, but he's run first and needs to have specific circumstances to be effective as a passer.

That's not Mahomes. Russell Wilson is the best comparison, though Mahomes has more arm, if less perfect touch on his deep ball (Wilson does it best).

Imagine, for a second, that Russell Wilson, instead of Tyler Lockett and DK Metkalf and a bunch of dudes off the street, had played you this year with Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins, Mecole Hardman, and Travis Kelce. And then upgrade his OL several notches. And then throw in a RB who is a really dangerous receiver out of the backfield (Damien Williams).

Oh, and instead of having a conservative, unimaginative offense, imagine that it was called by one of the most creative, innovative offensive minds in the NFL in the past 25 years.

How would those 49/Seahawks matchups have gone?

- Our motion to zone blocking and how your D reacts will dictate how the first half goes.

This is a good point. How disciplined the Chiefs remain in the face of all the motion and window dressing the 49ers use is a critical matchup.

Frank Clark and Suggs are very disciplined at E and will do their jobs. Guys like Mike Pennel and Derrick Nnadi have done the same at DT/NT. Chris Jones has really improved in this area up front and has done a better and better job as the year has gone on of being dynamic while also maintainig his gaps.

The key/question is going to be at LB. That's an area where Reggie Ragland has been really good and hit his keys/responsibilities. Hitchens and Wilson have not been as consistent.

Ragland's insertion into the starting lineup and heavy use replacing Darron Lee has been a real key for the Chiefs improved run defense. That, along with Pennel playing heavily on early downs, has been a big part of the Chiefs improved run D.

Final point I'll make here: KC has the personnel to run something similar to what the Patriots did to the Rams (6-1). And even in that set could still be creative in only sending 4-5 and being unpredictable with it.

- Mad respect for coming back from 24 down to win by 20. I would not anticipate us to go up that much in the SB but if we get up by two scores in the third we have grown significantly in game clock management and that could make a big difference.

Thanks. Honestly, the deficits that have come in the Chiefs two playoff games have been more about the Chiefs' mistakes than what the defenses around them have been doing.

The first two drives against Houston ended on third-down drops that would have been easy conversions (Third drive was a legit stop, but that was the only one Houston had all game until clock-killing time).

Same with Tennessee. The first two stalled drives were both due to drops on 3rd (one by Kelce, one by Hill).

The 49ers will be more effective in actually earning stops than either of those teams were, IMO.

[BangbangNinerGang]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

Where does this narrative come from that the 49ers have this completely dominant defense? Since week 9 they've given up roughly 26 points a game, so roughly half a season. Yes they've been decent in the playoffs against Minnesota and Green Bay, but neither Minnesota or Green Bay is better than league average on offense. New Orleans has roughly similar offensive firepower to KC and look what they did to that vaunted defense.

And as far as their offense goes, they're a better version of the Titans. Through 2 postseason games Garoppolo has 208 yards and 1 TD/1 INT. They've gotten by with dominant running. IFFFFFFF we can slow down the run game they're not that explosive. Double Kittle and sell out to stop the run. I'm not saying this is an easy game but SF isn't this behemoth the media has made them out to be.

We have not been at full strength from Oct 31 until the Vikings game. We had Ford, Tart, and Alexander out. They are now all healthy. That is why there was a dip in stats then and why we have been effective in the last two games.

IFFFFF you can figure out how to stop the run is the biggest question. It seems simple with an 8 man box, but with the motions and zone block schemes (plus the mentality of everyone on O) they are like a rubix cube to figure out on the fly.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

JJ Watt! That is all the media talked about. They were sure he was going to dominate. Instead, he was gassed. The point was- our running game has been carving them up when it counts. The jet sweeps have been huge, plus they have to account for Mahomes burning them with his legs now.

49ers will get some pressure with their front for, but I don't think they can cover Hill deep or will have an answer for Kelce gutting them in the middle. Our Oline has been playing out of their minds as well.

How are they going to counter Williams catching passes out of the backfield? You can't sleep on this guy at all. They try to blitz, Mahomes will dump off to Williams, who can take it to the house.

The last 2 Defensive Coordinators retired after facing us- I have serious doubts the 49ers are going to shut us down.

They're not gonna blitz. That's the point.

I'm not saying they're some dominant defense without any holes - but they have the ONE thing that can slow this offense down and that's the ability to get pressure with 4.

And while their zone looks will leave gaps, they have a nice athletic young 3-down backer in Fred Warner that can do just enough to cover up the middle to make things complicated IF they're getting to Mahomes fairly early. That will allow those zone coverages to survive for a bit.

Styles make fights and the 49ers defense is as well situated to slow us down as anyone. Not to shut us down, but to create some negative plays and a stumble or two.

Things have a tendency to snowball one direction or the other in the SB and that's my only real worry here. A couple of big plays early by one of the fast HBs the 49ers have, or a catch and run by Kittle or a broken coverage that lets Samuel bust one off and with a bobble early forced by Bosa, Armstead, Buckner or Ford...things could turn south.

I'm just saying don't whistle past the graveyard. The 49ers are easily the best team we've faced since Baltimore and they're playing better right now than Baltimore was at that time. This will be (rightfully so), the Chiefs toughest challenge of the year.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by BangbangNinerGang

Niners run a Wide 9 scheme with the front four with Bosa on the outside and Ford on the inside of the strong side. Bosa has been making fools of Pro-Bowl tackles all year. This has been the biggest success for the D-line and if your interior line is lacking, Dee and Buck could have huge days.

OH. MY. GOD.

They run a 9-wide scheme!!!

Andy's never seen that before, has he????

I mean, he's only been in the league for over 30 years, and coached against every team in the league multiple times, there's no way he could've seen a 9-wide, is there???

Actually, what am I thinking? Dee Ford is part of that scheme, and he can't spell "9."

We're good.

[wachashi]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Y'know, I'd ordinarily agree with you.

But Reid's a different cat, man. If someone said "oh no, Andy has about 10 plays he's been working on over the course of the last decade that he KNOWS will work and refuses to use them unless it's in a conference championship game or SB...." I would totally believe him.

Reid's just unique. I could absolutely see him having a 'secret stack of surefire winning plays' that he keeps tucked away like Coach Klein's playbook.

Do I think we will see plays in Super Bowl that we haven't ever seen before? YES

Do I think Reid, or any other coach, holds onto plays they KNOW will wreak havoc on a defense, just because they MIGHT make it to Super Bowl someday? NO - that is ridiculous

Reid will be drawing up brand new plays tailored specifically for the Niners defense all of this week.

[Kiimo]

The homophobic posts in this thread are a really bad look. SMH