Jaylon Ferguson Combine invite rescinded

[Chief Northman]

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...mpression=true

Maybe he slides to the Chiefs in Round 2?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...mpression=true

Maybe he slides to the Chiefs in Round 2?

great news, actually. Those incidents look like no big deal, and no combine along with the incidents will scare some teams off.

[DJ's left nut]

He won't make it to the end of 2, IMO.

Enough teams will schedule workouts with him that, while this could hurt his stock a little, the NCAA's all time leader in sacks ain't gonna fall to the 2nd. The TFL figures are amazing as well. Dude's a disruptive player by any measure and somebody will take a risk on that, especially in the mid-2nd.

If you want him, this may be great news in that it might push him down just enough to be available with our 1st. But I don't see any chance he lasts to our 2nd.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He won't make it to the end of 2, IMO.

Enough teams will schedule workouts with him that, while this could hurt his stock a little, the NCAA's all time leader in sacks ain't gonna fall to the 2nd. The TFL figures are amazing as well. Dude's a disruptive player by any measure and somebody will take a risk on that, especially in the mid-2nd.

If you want him, this may be great news in that it might push him down just enough to be available with our 1st. But I don't see any chance he lasts to our 2nd.

DJ, I must be the only guy that doesn’t love Ferguson on CP. Don’t get me wrong, when he was a 2nd rounder I liked the value, but I just don’t see the bend or athleticism of a 1st round edge rusher. I saw a lot of coverage sacks, and not many “quick wins” on tape.

[O.city]

I am with staylor here. The little I've watched, i'm kinda meh on him.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

DJ, I must be the only guy that doesn’t love Ferguson on CP. Don’t get me wrong, when he was a 2nd rounder I liked the value, but I just don’t see the bend or athleticism of a 1st round edge rusher. I saw a lot of crease sacks, and not many “quick wins” on tape.

I'm okay with him. I think it's Crow that's really after him. I'm just saying that the production will stand out for NFL front offices.

Where I'd like him in this defense is that strong-side DE that's less of a pure pass rusher. Those TFL figures are exceptional; the dude just makes a hash of things for opposing offenses. He has good length, he's physical, has a solid motor, looks to play with good core strength. He has solid technique; good hand-fighting skills from what I could see. He'd be a nice strong-side 5-tech here.

I kinda think we need to get away from the 'edge' analysis we have been doing for so long that relies on explosion and athleticism. Sure, when you're looking at stand-up OLB's or wide-9 kind of ends, explosion and bend are crucial. But if you're looking at that 4-3 under with the wider split on the strong side, you need a guy that can do a little more to control the line of scrimmage and be physical. This guy isn't an edge like we're used to - he's going to be used differently here. But we also shouldn't look at him through that same lens.

In the right role, I think Ferguson could be pretty good for us. He'd be a replacement for Houston as the 'heavy' 5-tech on the strong side.

Then again, we kinda have that already in Speaks. I don't care for Speaks, but I think he can be okay in that role. I think Ferguson could be a lot better, but it's still not where I'd go with my 1st.

It's not the best use of capital, IMO. I wouldn't go that route in the 1st and like you would consider it in the 2nd.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm okay with him. I think it's Crow that's really after him. I'm just saying that the production will stand out for NFL front offices.

Where I'd like him in this defense is that strong-side DE that's less of a pure pass rusher. Those TFL figures are exceptional; the dude just makes a hash of things for opposing offenses. He has good length, he's physical, has a solid motor, looks to play with good core strength. He has solid technique; good hand-fighting skills from what I could see. He'd be a nice strong-side 5-tech here.

I kinda think we need to get away from the 'edge' analysis we have been doing for so long that relies on explosion and athleticism. Sure, when you're looking at stand-up OLB's or wide-9 kind of ends, explosion and bend are crucial. But if you're looking at that 4-3 under with the wider split on the strong side, you need a guy that can do a little more to control the line of scrimmage and be physical. This guy isn't an edge like we're used to - he's going to be used differently here. But we also shouldn't look at him through that same lens.

In the right role, I think Ferguson could be pretty good for us. He'd be a replacement for Houston as the 'heavy' 5-tech on the strong side.

Then again, we kinda have that already in Speaks. I don't care for Speaks, but I think he can be okay in that role. I think Ferguson could be a lot better, but it's still not where I'd go with my 1st.

It's not the best use of capital, IMO. I wouldn't go that route in the 1st and like you would consider it in the 2nd.

Yea if we didn’t already have Speaks and were cutting Houston I’d be all for that, but I think Speaks will be fine in that role and dare I say good. So, if we’re taking an edge rusher I’d prefer somebody that is going to take over for Ford or a Bruce Irvin type that we can put at SLB.

I was under the impression that those that want Ferguson liked him at LEO.

[O.city]

I think Speaks would be ok there. I don't know that he'd be "good" by any means yet, but I'm not really a fan so we'll see.

Theres gonna be a good player there at 29, hopefully it's a corner I think or a TE.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Yea if we didn’t already have Speaks and were cutting Houston I’d be all for that, but I think Speaks will be fine in that role and dare I say good. So, if we’re taking an edge rusher I’d prefer somebody that is going to take over for Ford or a Bruce Irvin type that we can put at SLB.

I was under the impression that those that want Ferguson liked him at LEO.

Yikes - I hope not.

I don't see a Leo there at all.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm okay with him. I think it's Crow that's really after him. I'm just saying that the production will stand out for NFL front offices.

Where I'd like him in this defense is that strong-side DE that's less of a pure pass rusher. Those TFL figures are exceptional; the dude just makes a hash of things for opposing offenses. He has good length, he's physical, has a solid motor, looks to play with good core strength. He has solid technique; good hand-fighting skills from what I could see. He'd be a nice strong-side 5-tech here.

I kinda think we need to get away from the 'edge' analysis we have been doing for so long that relies on explosion and athleticism. Sure, when you're looking at stand-up OLB's or wide-9 kind of ends, explosion and bend are crucial. But if you're looking at that 4-3 under with the wider split on the strong side, you need a guy that can do a little more to control the line of scrimmage and be physical. This guy isn't an edge like we're used to - he's going to be used differently here. But we also shouldn't look at him through that same lens.

In the right role, I think Ferguson could be pretty good for us. He'd be a replacement for Houston as the 'heavy' 5-tech on the strong side.

Then again, we kinda have that already in Speaks. I don't care for Speaks, but I think he can be okay in that role. I think Ferguson could be a lot better, but it's still not where I'd go with my 1st.

It's not the best use of capital, IMO. I wouldn't go that route in the 1st and like you would consider it in the 2nd.

Haven't mocked him since he got put into round 1 conversation.

Here's one thing, the way you all look at edge players for a 4-3 is going to be vastly different from the 3-4 and he's a player at 4-3 end. That said, he falls behind a substantial list of players for me to say, "yeah i'll take him in 1." One thing we're not 100% sure on yet even is whether Spags will implement a 4-3 Under, something he hasn't traditionally done. That would take all talk of using a LEO/Wide 9 type on a regular basis out of play. It's another reason I'm not so certain the Chiefs retain Ford. They may tag him, but I find it more likely he'd be traded in that scenario than kept.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Haven't mocked him since he got put into round 1 conversation.

Here's one thing, the way you all look at edge players for a 4-3 is going to be vastly different from the 3-4 and he's a player at 4-3 end. That said, he falls behind a substantial list of players for me to say, "yeah i'll take him in 1." One thing we're not 100% sure on yet even is whether Spags will implement a 4-3 Under, something he hasn't traditionally done. That would take all talk of using a LEO/Wide 9 type on a regular basis out of play. It's another reason I'm not so certain the Chiefs retain Ford. They may tag him, but I find it more likely he'd be traded in that scenario than kept.

-agreed that people are thinking of 'edge rusher' in 3-4 OLB terms. This guy is a 4-3 end. High motor, looks like a good technician, solid pass rusher. I think he'd be a plus player at either end spot, and sooner than later.
-Spags has always run a 4-3 base, and in base usually 'under' as opposed to 'over' although I've seen them move guys around to confuse, so sometimes it ends up 'over' or any number of other weird looks (compared to the usual 'under'). Obviously I've not watched all-22 footage of every game he's coached, but that is my impression.
-wide 9 is cool in pass rush packages, but will get you eaten alive on first and second down. Also, probably gets Jones doubled up with a guard kicking out which leaves a huge running lane between.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Haven't mocked him since he got put into round 1 conversation.

Here's one thing, the way you all look at edge players for a 4-3 is going to be vastly different from the 3-4 and he's a player at 4-3 end. That said, he falls behind a substantial list of players for me to say, "yeah i'll take him in 1." One thing we're not 100% sure on yet even is whether Spags will implement a 4-3 Under, something he hasn't traditionally done. That would take all talk of using a LEO/Wide 9 type on a regular basis out of play. It's another reason I'm not so certain the Chiefs retain Ford. They may tag him, but I find it more likely he'd be traded in that scenario than kept.

Were you on the Polite train? I thought I remembered you fired up about one of the edge rushers and either pumping the brakes on Polite in favor of Ferguson or vice versa. I'll never manage to find the conversation again by I suspect I just flipped the names.

That said, if so, I'm not a huge Polite guy in this defense either. Does he have the size to play the Leo effectively? Awareness in space to play SLB? Seems to not fit Spags scheme as well as others.

He does seem to be a ton like Ford in a lot of ways and I'm really intrigued by what Ford could do as a Leo in this system, but I'd still move him for a high 2nd due to cap concerns. If it came to a situation where I thought we could get Polite with our 1st and move Ford for the pick we could use on Adderley, I'd go that route and be pretty content.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

-agreed that people are thinking of 'edge rusher' in 3-4 OLB terms. This guy is a 4-3 end. High motor, looks like a good technician, solid pass rusher. I think he'd be a plus player at either end spot, and sooner than later.
-Spags has always run a 4-3 base, and in base usually 'under' as opposed to 'over' although I've seen them move guys around to confuse, so sometimes it ends up 'over' or any number of other weird looks (compared to the usual 'under'). Obviously I've not watched all-22 footage of every game he's coached, but that is my impression.
-wide 9 is cool in pass rush packages, but will get you eaten alive on first and second down. Also, probably gets Jones doubled up with a guard kicking out which leaves a huge running lane between.

Wide 9 will get you eaten alive against any athletic LTs, even in pass rush situations, IMO.

To do it, you have to be a credible threat to be able to bull rush as well so they have to be set early enough to keep from getting smoked and you can get just enough edge to bend around them. But that's the big concern I have with Ford's ability to be a plus Leo - does he have the physicality to keep athletic OTs from a quick slide-step and then taking the play at 'em. With little fear of having Ford just go directly into their body and blowing 'em up, it's hard to say that he'd be a real effective wide 9 player if we tried to do that often.

As for Ferguson; just don't see the burst for him to play the weakside DE in this system. Certainly don't see the agility to bend the edge and finish the play. I think he's particularly ill-suited for that role in this defense.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Were you on the Polite train? I thought I remembered you fired up about one of the edge rushers and either pumping the brakes on Polite in favor of Ferguson or vice versa. I'll never manage to find the conversation again by I suspect I just flipped the names.

That said, if so, I'm not a huge Polite guy in this defense either. Does he have the size to play the Leo effectively? Awareness in space to play SLB? Seems to not fit Spags scheme as well as others.

He does seem to be a ton like Ford in a lot of ways and I'm really intrigued by what Ford could do as a Leo in this system, but I'd still move him for a high 2nd due to cap concerns. If it came to a situation where I thought we could get Polite with our 1st and move Ford for the pick we could use on Adderley, I'd go that route and be pretty content.

I kind of think Polite is a Ford clone, basically. pros and cons both. If your Tag and Trade happened and we could get Baker, Adderly and then maybe Ferguson with the last #2 I'd be super happy.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

agreed that people are thinking of 'edge rusher' in 3-4 OLB terms. This guy is a 4-3 end. High motor, looks like a good technician, solid pass rusher. I think he'd be a plus player at either end spot, and sooner than later.
-Spags has always run a 4-3 base, and in base usually 'under' as opposed to 'over' although I've seen them move guys around to confuse, so sometimes it ends up 'over' or any number of other weird looks (compared to the usual 'under'). Obviously I've not watched all-22 footage of every game he's coached, but that is my impression.
-wide 9 is cool in pass rush packages, but will get you eaten alive on first and second down. Also, probably gets Jones doubled up with a guard kicking out which leaves a huge running lane between.

No, I’m really not.

If you want Ferguson at SDE, then that’s fine and makes sense.

All I’m saying is he’s not a LEO.