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Old 11-04-2018, 05:08 PM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Ten Things About Today's Game Week 9: KC 37 Brownouts 21

Ten Things About Today’s Game: Week 9: KC 37 CLE 21

10. It was so nice to be able to sleep in today on a wet and cold KC November morning. I went up to my favorite neighborhood diner, the Englewood Cafe, got some carry out breakfast, settled in and watched the game through a fog of Vicks Vapo-Rub, the voice of Mitch Holthaus on the radio and the nasty NyQuil hangover from the overnight. We’ve had a lot of weird games in Cleveland. We've lost crazy overtime games there, we had the Rudd Helmet Tossing Game, and I was afraid this might be a classic “trap game,” with the "Win One For Dorsey" factor. Gregg Williams is a dirty coach, so I was afraid a bunch of our guys -including Mahomes- would have targets on their backs. Except for a foot injury to Sammy Watkins, looks like it was Cleveland that had the injury problems. Their entire defensive secondary was on a conveyor belt to the locker room. That just made things extra easy for Mahomes picking apart Cleveland’s backup secondary, as he threw for 375 yards, his eighth straight 300 yard game.

9. This team may be immune to trap games, as Andy seems to have established a formula that works. We win the coin toss, defer, stop the other team’s first possession, score on our first possession, then make the other team play catch up until they make mistakes that seal the deal. Except for the Pats and Denver game in Denver, that’s been the script, and it works. It’s hard to be picky when the team is 8-1, but there’s a lot of things that can be improved, and really must be improved, if we’re going to make it to the Big Show this February.

8. First big problem is penalties. KC has been Raideresque in their penalties this year. Just too many, and a lot of them have been stupid unsportsmanlike penalties. And it’s been affecting both offense and defense. Today was 11 penalties for 86 yards. That's three times as many as the Browns had. The Chiefs offense had three penalties on ONE PLAY. Defense had Cleveland in a 3rd and 23 at a critical point in the game, made a play and had the Browns stopped to force a 4th and long. Hitchens had to lose his mind with an unsportsmanlike penalty, gives the Browns a first down which allowed them to score. Look, the Browns are a dumpster fire, that’s obvious. But they have a decent offense. If we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot by having double digit penalties, that’s going to be a killer in the playoffs against a good team like the Steelers or Pats. We must get some penalty discipline, and get it soon.

7. Second big problem is tackling. Chubb broke tackle after tackle after tackle. He didn’t make 100 yards but was close enough with 85 yards and a TD. Cleveland averaged over four yards per rush. That’s not good. A team that can stop the run should hold that to three yards or less. We spent a lot of money to STOP THE RUN. C'mon Grandpa Bob, may have to mix in some run blitzes on first down.

6. Third big problem is pass coverage. Defense gave up two passing TDs, and got burned especially on passes to Johnson out of the backfield. Defense gave up just under 400 offensive yards to Cleveland, so once again, the KC offense had to put up big points to run away and hide. One thing I will say, Nelson showed me some heart. In the fourth quarter he got toasted on a bomb to Callaway for 38 yards. After giving up that play he picked Mayfield to kill the drive. Except for his boneheaded unsportsmanlike penalty, Hitchens gutted it up and played with bad ribs - and tied with Nelson for most tackles. Chris Jones got a gift sack when he blew through unblocked with a straight line to Mayfield. Other sack was on a blitz by Lucas, which was his only tackle in the whole game. Kudos to Grandpa Bob for dialing that up. Dee Ford was neutralized, he had one tackle and no sacks. Speaks blew a pass coverage that gave up a first down, but otherwise had some nice plays including stopping the Browns final attempt on fourth and two. That stop sealed the game.

5. Final big problem is clock management. The Chiefs scored on every first half possession except the freaking fiasco at the end of the first half. How can you get an intentional grounding penalty on a spike? I don’t know if that mess was on Mahomes or on Andy or on Bienemy, but if we get in a tight game where we need every point we can get, we can’t be knocking ourselves out of field goal range on something self inflicted like that. And if you’re going to throw a pick on the last play of the half, why not go full Hail Mary? Mahomes can certainly reach the end zone. Run Harris down there and let him go jump ball. Luckily, we got the ball right back to start the second half and drove down and scored seven, so in this case, it didn’t affect the outcome. Again, don’t mean to nit pick, but these are all things we can improve on.

4. This game statistically was pretty even. Chiefs had about 100 yards more total offense. TOP was within a minute on both sides. First downs were basically even, turnovers were even. Chiefs had a lot more penalty yards. Browns missed all three two point conversions. Both QBs were sacked twice, Chiefs were a little better on third down conversions. Williams blocked punt was the turning point in the game. Once that punt was blocked and KC scored another TD immediately afterwards, you could see the air go right out of the Browns sideline. Kudos to the special teams, as that was a big contribution at that point of the game.

3 Today was a great example of how players love to play in front of their hometown friends and family. Kareem Hunt bought 110 tickets to the game for his old high school football team in Cleveland to attend the game. He responds with 141 all purpose yards and three TD. Kelce -who is also from Cleveland- was a dollar short of a Benjamin and scored 2 TDs. Special nod to Spencer Ware, who had a couple of nice catches to sustain drives on third down. Ware reminds me of a back the Chiefs had back in the 90’s named Todd McNair, who was a great back on third down. You could run him between the tackles, or throw the ball to him in the flat. Mahomes and Mayfield both did a nice job of distributing the ball to multiple receivers.

2. Kudos to the offensive line, which was four Cleveland castoffs and Fisher. Fisher only gave up one sack to Garrett, who’s arguably the best pass rusher in the NFL. Mahomes had all day to throw for most of the game. When we get Morse and the Canadian Doc back -IF we get the Doc back- This line should be just fine. No Berry, Dirty Dan or Houston again this week. Hopefully we’ll see at least one and maybe two of them next week. I’m convinced we’ll be lucky to see Berry until sometime in December, if at all.

1. So, 8-1 is fabulous, and at the time of this writing the Bolts are in a tussle with the Seahags. The Fade is a giant sewage pit -like their stadium. Donks are losing to the Texans and they’re done as well. Right now the focus is to try stay ahead of the Pats for a number one seed in the playoffs. If we can get a first round bye, and make teams come to Arrowhead in January, we may have a fighting chance. We have a QB that doesn’t check down and miss wide open receivers 30 yards downfield now. We need the same kind of focus next week as we received this week, as we don’t want to overlook Arizona. I know that’s tempting with a trip to Meh-i-co then the bye the week after, but if things keep rolling we could hit the bye at 10-1. The Holidays could be extra jolly this year, and extra expensive. Better start stashing away some playoff bucks now. You’re gonna need them in January.

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Old 11-04-2018, 10:36 PM   #46
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1st layer is spaghetti, hot dog and cheese then you do that stack 2 more times.
They put chili and onions on that?
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:43 PM   #47
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:48 PM   #48
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The refs started the clock, the ball was snapped before a second came off. If the snap came a second later it would not have been an intentional grounding. Per the ref announcer guy.
I don't give a **** what the ref announcer said.

The PLAY CLOCK started.

25 seconds.

The GAME CLOCK was at 9 seconds, and due to the penalty by the Browns on the previous play, would not start until the ball was snapped.

MAHOMES said he thought he could spike the ball there, and Reid didn't know he couldn't either.

The rules states clearly that the QB can only legally spike the ball FROM UNDER CENTER and SPECIFICALLY TO SAVE TIME ON THE GAME CLOCK WHILE THE GAME CLOCK IS RUNNING.

The QB can ONLY spike the ball to save time on a running GAME clock.

the refs set and ran the PLAY clock.

It's in the rule book :

. https://nflcommunications.com/Docume...20Rulebook.pdf

Quote:
A.R. 8.87 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING—SPIKE TO CONSUME TIME
First-and-10 on B30. The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. QBA1 takes the snap and
immediately spikes the ball into the ground to take one second off the clock so that a field-goal attempt will run out

the clock.
Ruling: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff. A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game
clock. An attempt to take time off the clock is intentional grounding.
Mahomes admitted that is exactly what he tried to do, and that he didn't know that he couldn't do that...and neither did Reid.

So the refs called it 100% correctly and so Reid screwed the pooch.

It's sad that I know that rule better than the announcers AND the coach.
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Old 11-04-2018, 10:51 PM   #49
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:04 PM   #50
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#6 - Speaks did not blow a pass coverage. Saying he blew the pass coverage suggests that he was capable of pass coverage in the first place. I have said it many times this year: There isn't a single offensive skill player in the entire NFL that Speaks can cover in pass coverage. I will forever condemn any defensive play call that has Speaks responsible for a TE or RB in pass coverage.
Well, are you insinuating if it were a running play, or if the back stayed in to pass block, Speaks would have been extremely effective?

But the part that it seems your post isn't taking into consideration, is that defenses don't actually KNOW if an offense is running or throwing...or if they are throwing, who knows which side? Deep or short? Rollout? They may have lined up in that run formation fully intending to run...but then Mayfield changed it to a HB wheel BECAUSE Speaks was over there!? What was Speaks supposed to do - rush the QB and let the HB go completely free? Or ****ing TRY TO COVER HIM!?

I mean, no one was bitching when Reid brought Reek into the backfield and got him isolated on a LB that he TORCHED down the sideline in NE, and I'm sure that no one thinks BB planned to cover Tyreek Hill with a ****ing LB, neither - Reid is good at that shit, getting mismatches. It's called 'the game within the game'.

Jesus ****ing Christ, are you ****ing trolling me with this ignorant shit, or do you just not know how football is played??
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:09 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
I don't give a **** what the ref announcer said.

The PLAY CLOCK started.

25 seconds.

The GAME CLOCK was at 9 seconds, and due to the penalty by the Browns on the previous play, would not start until the ball was snapped.

MAHOMES said he thought he could spike the ball there, and Reid didn't know he couldn't either.

The rules states clearly that the QB can only legally spike the ball FROM UNDER CENTER and SPECIFICALLY TO SAVE TIME ON THE GAME CLOCK WHILE THE GAME CLOCK IS RUNNING.

The QB can ONLY spike the ball to save time on a running GAME clock.

the refs set and ran the PLAY clock.

It's in the rule book :

. https://nflcommunications.com/Docume...20Rulebook.pdf



Mahomes admitted that is exactly what he tried to do, and that he didn't know that he couldn't do that...and neither did Reid.

So the refs called it 100% correctly and so Reid screwed the pooch.

It's sad that I know that rule better than the announcers AND the coach.
Cool, free timeout, no reason to even think about using your timeout or needing to save it for later, cool.

Now can we be friends?

One other thing, why’d the ref start the play clock only and then run like his hair was on fire?
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:37 PM   #52
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:38 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
Well, are you insinuating if it were a running play, or if the back stayed in to pass block, Speaks would have been extremely effective?

But the part that it seems your post isn't taking into consideration, is that defenses don't actually KNOW if an offense is running or throwing...or if they are throwing, who knows which side? Deep or short? Rollout? They may have lined up in that run formation fully intending to run...but then Mayfield changed it to a HB wheel BECAUSE Speaks was over there!? What was Speaks supposed to do - rush the QB and let the HB go completely free? Or ****ing TRY TO COVER HIM!?

I mean, no one was bitching when Reid brought Reek into the backfield and got him isolated on a LB that he TORCHED down the sideline in NE, and I'm sure that no one thinks BB planned to cover Tyreek Hill with a ****ing LB, neither - Reid is good at that shit, getting mismatches. It's called 'the game within the game'.

Jesus ****ing Christ, are you ****ing trolling me with this ignorant shit, or do you just not know how football is played??
I know exactly how football is played. It was clear that Speaks was responsible for the back. And no, I am not suggesting that if the back had stayed in to block that Speaks would have been effective.

If the back had stayed in to block, it just means we got lucky. Last week he was beaten on a play almost exactly the same, except the back did stay in to block, and Speaks left his assignment because he thought he had a chance to get to the QB, but the play broke down, and the back leaked out and Speaks was 6 yards away when he caught the ball.

Either way, Sutton put Speaks into a situation where he could not possibly be successful.

Do you ever watch the all-22 film? If you did, you would see that Sutton puts his linebackers in no win situations far too often. If you look at Speaks' skill-set objectively, it is very clear that dropping back in pass coverage, or shadowing a running back, is not one of his skills. I was expressing my frustration with Sutton for not understanding his personnel.

I don't know you, but you are obviously are a football coach, or get paid professionally for your football knowledge. Good for you. I would think that any coach, no matter what level, would say that their job is to put their players in a position to win. That includes winning in the film room and winning every individual snap.

A huge key in putting your players in a position to win every snap, is knowing what that player can, and can't do. If you put them in a position that requires a skill they don't have, you have failed.

I respect that you have a different opinion than I do, but I don't respect you, or any other member of this board that has to resort to peacocking and name calling just to make yourself feel better about your own opinion.



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Old 11-04-2018, 11:47 PM   #54
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I know exactly how football is played. It was clear that Speaks was responsible for the back. And no, I am not suggesting that if the back had stayed in to block that Speaks would have been effective.

If the back had stayed in to block, it just means we got lucky. Last week he was beaten on a play almost exactly the same, except the back did stay in to block, and Speaks left his assignment because he thought he had a chance to get to the QB, but the play broke down, and the back leaked out and Speaks was 6 yards away when he caught the ball.

Either way, Sutton put Speaks into a situation where he could not possibly be successful.

Do you ever watch the all-22 film? If you did, you would see that Sutton puts his linebackers in no win situations far too often. If you look at Speaks' skill-set objectively, it is very clear that dropping back in pass coverage, or shadowing a running back, is not one of his skills. I was expressing my frustration with Sutton for not understanding his personnel.

I don't know you, but you are obviously are a football coach, or get paid professionally for your football knowledge. Good for you. I would think that any coach, no matter what level, would say that their job is to put their players in a position to win. That includes winning in the film room and winning every individual snap.

A huge key in putting your players in a position to win every snap, is knowing what that player can, and can't do. If you put them in a position that requires a skill they don't have, you have failed.

I respect that you have a different opinion than I do, but I don't respect you, or any other member of this board that has to resort to peacocking and name calling just to make yourself feel better about your own opinion.



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It's Bob Sutton's fault that Houston, Zombo, and Smith all got hurt and Speaks is all that's left, and that Hitchens and Ragland have basically dogshit?

O'Daniel kinda got caught out of position/got beat today, too...but Sutton has to play who he has.

The LBs, except Ford, have been garbage.

Good offensive coaches will exploit any weaknessess.

Gonna be tough sledding against Gurley...but it won't be because Bob Sutton tells guys to run slow or take bad angles or use pisspoor tackling techniques. That's like blaming Reid for Conley's 1st qtr drop.
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Old 11-04-2018, 11:49 PM   #55
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Cool, free timeout, no reason to even think about using your timeout or needing to save it for later, cool.

Now can we be friends?

One other thing, why’d the ref start the play clock only and then run like his hair was on fire?
Yeah, definitely friends - gotta go to bed.

Read this thread to answer your questions : https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=318636
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Old 11-05-2018, 12:47 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by rabblerouser View Post
It's Bob Sutton's fault that Houston, Zombo, and Smith all got hurt and Speaks is all that's left, and that Hitchens and Ragland have basically dogshit?

O'Daniel kinda got caught out of position/got beat today, too...but Sutton has to play who he has.

The LBs, except Ford, have been garbage.

Good offensive coaches will exploit any weaknessess.

Gonna be tough sledding against Gurley...but it won't be because Bob Sutton tells guys to run slow or take bad angles or use pisspoor tackling techniques. That's like blaming Reid for Conley's 1st qtr drop.
Injuries are obviously not Sutton's fault. But his inability to adapt his scheme to fit the players he has available to him is definitely his fault.

We mocked the 49ers for trying to cover Watkins with a linebacker. Offensively, we manipulate the defense into a position that creates such a ridiculous mismatch. But any time we start a play on defense with Speaks responsible for a TE or RB in man coverage, we have done the offense's work for them.

Speaks is listed on the depth chart as a ROLB, and his weight is listed at 285 pounds. Allen Bailey is listed on the depth chart as a RDE, and his weight is listed at 288 pounds. In college Speaks was a defensive tackle and defensive end. 285 pounds makes for a massive linebacker.

Speaks' 40 time is/was 4.87, and Bailey's was 4.77. So, their weight, and speed are very similar, but no one expects Bailey to cover anyone in man coverage. So why does Sutton put Speaks into a situation with such a low chance of success?

I am not saying that Bailey and Speaks are not capable of dropping off the LOS and playing a little zone coverage a few yards deep, but if either are matched up one on one with a TE or RB they are going to lose that match-up.

So, if the defense Sutton calls for a specific play or offensive personnel package requires someone to cover the RB, why is that player Speaks, and not Tremon Smith or even DOD? There is a much higher chance for success if either of them are covering the RB instead of Speaks.

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Old 11-05-2018, 01:05 AM   #57
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No doubt, I finally got to see the game as I was watching my daughter doing gymnastics like a linebacker at an all day meet...What I saw were some phantom calls...The strip sack especially...Ummm did anyone see a flag or was it that Ford got there so fast that they saw it as an unfair advantage for KC to have impactful defensive plays or was it Mahomes isn't allowed to start an offensive play that to close to the end zone? How about the 3 different holding calls from 1 official, thinking if I call a bunch, surely someone will agree with at least one of them. I mean seriously it appears that they are coming up with new rules or digging up ones from when they had to manually wind the play clock for the intentional grounding. Could the officiating crews get together and decide if they need to call equalizing calls for less equipt team. Or might there be a fringe group of overly active buffet going officials that get tired of running up and down the field with the boys.

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Old 11-05-2018, 05:06 AM   #58
Flying High D Flying High D is offline
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They put chili and onions on that?
Your talking the Clevelander Hi-Boy now.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:11 AM   #59
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Good read as always, George. It's always the 1st thing I read after a game. Just to echo a couple things you said.
Andy has to get the penalties under control. That unsportsmanlike on Hitchens was just plain stupid. You can't give any team that many chances in the red zone and expect to go very far in the playoffs. That said, the zebras seemed to be extra vigilant watching our guys. Ford's offsides that negated his strip sack was a prime example. I watched that replay 3 times and I think he was close, but not in, the neutral zone. If you want to watch Ford, check out the guys mugging him on just about every pass rush.
The O-line performed pretty well. Like you said, if we get LDT back for the playoff run, we ought to be pretty solid. I'd like to see us get a real LG (calling Big 10 linemen) and, if we keep Morse, both Devey and Reiter given a chance to compete for the C job.
Getting both Sorensen and Houston back soon should help that tackling problem, I'll hold my breath on Berry.
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Old 11-05-2018, 06:40 AM   #60
Flying High D Flying High D is offline
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Originally Posted by oldman View Post
Good read as always, George. It's always the 1st thing I read after a game. Just to echo a couple things you said.
Andy has to get the penalties under control. That unsportsmanlike on Hitchens was just plain stupid. You can't give any team that many chances in the red zone and expect to go very far in the playoffs. That said, the zebras seemed to be extra vigilant watching our guys. Ford's offsides that negated his strip sack was a prime example. I watched that replay 3 times and I think he was close, but not in, the neutral zone. If you want to watch Ford, check out the guys mugging him on just about every pass rush.
The O-line performed pretty well. Like you said, if we get LDT back for the playoff run, we ought to be pretty solid. I'd like to see us get a real LG (calling Big 10 linemen) and, if we keep Morse, both Devey and Reiter given a chance to compete for the C job.
Getting both Sorensen and Houston back soon should help that tackling problem, I'll hold my breath on Berry.
Don’t, you’ll die.
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