Ron Torbort should be fired

[Chief Northman]

Atrocious job by Torbort and his crew today:

- Atrocious spots of the ball
- Missed holdings on Browns receivers in red zone
- Dee Ford strip sack and recovery taken away on a clean play nobody flagged
- Chiefs decline Cleveland penalty, CLOCK SHOULD BE RUNNING. Torbort ****s up and misinterprets situation moving Chiefs out of FG range and costing them a timeout.

Quit propping up shit franchises NFL. Browns made their own bed. They best lie in it.

Horrible.

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Kyle DeLexus

Here is Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

The ball was snapped, the game clock starts, Mahomes immediately upon receiving the snap begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

Once the ball is snapped, the game clock is running so the player under center is technically spiking to stop the game clock and save time.

No.

Once the ball is snapped, the QB must throw to a receiver or get outside the pocket and throw at the LOS or it's IG.

PERIOD.

A player can't spike off a dead clock.

A player can't spike out the shotgun.

A player can't try to draw the defense offsides then spike the ball.

THE ONLY TIME A PLAYER CAN SPIKE THE BALL :.

Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"


If the GAME clock isn't running DURING THE SNAP, then the QB is not legally stopping the clock to save time; e.g. intentional grounding is the correct call.

Mahomes had 25 seconds on the play clock, and the game clock wasn't running.

It's intentional grounding to spike in that scenario.

According to the rules.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by DenverChief

sooooo....post it and end the speculation...

No. Waste of effort.

[kgrund]

Originally Posted by lcarus

If a team spikes it when the clock isnt running, they are already penalizing themselves unnecessarily by burning a down. A flag and a 10 yard loss + 10 second runoff is dumb. That scenario shouldnt induce a grounding penalty. Its not the purpose of the rule.

That is what I keep saying. Makes zero sense. Rules are in place for a purpose. What is the purpose of this stupid obscure rule? I don't care if it is in the rule book. I want to know why?

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

It's intentional grounding to spike in that scenario.

Per what rule?

Where is the rule that states intentional grounding can be committed without pressure on the QB?

That rule MUST exist in order for an intentional grounding call to be levied on that play.

[SupDock]

A.R. 8.90 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING—SPIKE TO CONSUME TIME First-and-10 on B30. The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. QBA1 takes the snap and immediately spikes the ball into the ground to take one second off the clock so that a field-goal attempt will run out the clock. Ruling: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff. A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock. An attempt to take time off the clock is intentional grounding.

This is an approved ruling, so it seems it is in a rulw book. However I don't think the utilization of this ruling today was in the spirit of the initial rule. It seems like a team spiked the ball to run time off the clock so that the time would expire during the ensuing field-goal

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Kyle DeLexus

You are adding an interpretation that is not included in the rules. Once the ball is snapped, the game clock is running. Therefore, a spike of the ball would be to save time.

Um...all rules in the NFL are interpreted, not enforced.

Doesn't everyone know that by now?

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

It's totally in the rules.

Do you not understand that QB pressure must exist for intentional grounding to be called?

Or are you just being obtuse?

[rabblerouser]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Do you not understand that QB pressure must exist for intentional grounding to be called?

Or are you just being obtuse?

I understand that the ****ing clock has to be running AT THE SNAP for it to be a legal spike, pressure or not.

I have deductive logic and cognitive reasoning that tell me that if a QB can ONLY spike to stop a running game clock...and if said game clock isn't running at the snap...then said QB better throw at a receiver or get out the pocket and throw toward the LOS, because an NFL officiating crew will call it intentional grounding.

I understand that much.

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by SupDock

A.R. 8.90 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING—SPIKE TO CONSUME TIME First-and-10 on B30. The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. QBA1 takes the snap and immediately spikes the ball into the ground to take one second off the clock so that a field-goal attempt will run out the clock. Ruling: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff. A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock. An attempt to take time off the clock is intentional grounding.

If this is the rules then it's clear.

Where did you get this? I've had a very hard time finding the full rule book online. Just the abbreviated one for fans.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by SupDock

A.R. 8.90 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING—SPIKE TO CONSUME TIME First-and-10 on B30. The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. QBA1 takes the snap and immediately spikes the ball into the ground to take one second off the clock so that a field-goal attempt will run out the clock. Ruling: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff. A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock. An attempt to take time off the clock is intentional grounding.

What the **** is this even from?

It's not in the goddamn official rulebook site.

[Kyle DeLexus]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

No.

Once the ball is snapped, the QB must throw to a receiver or get outside the pocket and throw at the LOS or it's IG.

PERIOD.

A player can't spike off a dead clock.

A player can't spike out the shotgun.

A player can't try to draw the defense offsides then spike the ball.

THE ONLY TIME A PLAYER CAN SPIKE THE BALL :.

Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"


If the GAME clock isn't running DURING THE SNAP, then the QB is not legally stopping the clock to save time; e.g. intentional grounding is the correct call.

Mahomes had 25 seconds on the play clock, and the game clock wasn't running.

It's intentional grounding to spike in that scenario.

According to the rules.

Where is the rule that says this? As I've mentioned, you are adding your interpretation (which appears to be the same as the NFL), but if this is going to be how the league interprets the rule, it should be clear in writing.

Nowhere in the rule does it state "if the game clock is not running before the snap then the QB cannot spike the ball to stop the clock.

It does say "It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that is thrown in the direction of and lands in the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver."

And they do include "Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s)."

Item 4 again shows that in order for Grounding to be called, a QB must have pressure from a defensive rusher. Unless there is clear writing in the rule that says otherwise....and there is not clear writing in the rule.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

I understand that the ****ing clock has to be running AT THE SNAP for it to be a legal spike, pressure or not.

I have deductive logic and cognitive reasoning that tell me that if a QB can ONLY spike to stop a running game clock...and said game clock isn't running at the snap...then QB better throw at a receiver or get out the pocket and throw toward the LOS, because an NFL officiating crew will call it intentional grounding.

I understand that much.

So you are willfully ignorant of the fact that QB pressure must exist for such a call.

Huh! Amazing.

[suzzer99]

Lol football zebra's uses Clay's tweet. Clay have you seen this? http://www.footballzebras.com/2018/1...ek-9-liveblog/

On the previous play, the Browns were offside, but the Chiefs declined the penalty. It appears that the Chiefs were confused about the clock situation, because as soon as Torbert blew his whistle to wind the play clock, Mahomes took the snap. After the 2:00 warning in the 2nd quarter, the clock remains stopped for declined fouls.

Since the clock was stopped on the snap, this is an intentional grounding foul. The spike exception to the grounding rules entered the rulebook in 1987, and the intent was only to give the offense an option of stopping the clock when the quarterback is under center. Examples, such as delaying the spike to assess options, spiking from a shotgun formation, or — as addressed in the Casebook in Approved Ruling 8.90 — to take a second or two off the clock for strategic purposes, are all illegal.

Even though the Chiefs appear to be confused, there is really no relief from the grounding rules. It is also a 10-second runoff, which the Chiefs countered with a timeout. The fact that this specific situation is not addressed does not give an opening for interpretation; the fact that the clock was not running prior to the snap is the guiding factor in the rule.

Yeah that's pretty clear. I guess this Casebook isn't really available online?

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by Kyle DeLexus

Where is the rule that says this? As I've mentioned, you are adding your interpretation (which appears to be the same as the NFL), but if this is going to be how the league interprets the rule, it should be clear in writing.

Nowhere in the rule does it state "if the game clock is not running before the snap then the QB cannot spike the ball to stop the clock.

See my post above. There is something called a Casebook - which I have never seen online. Just the abridged rulebook they release for fans.

[Hammock Parties]

Well, that's clear then.

The NFL should put the the ****ing CASEBOOK online, then.

****ing jackholes.