Chiefs Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? - Page 8

**petegz28** · 08-02-2018, 09:00 AM

The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season?

One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position.

Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been.

The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay.

The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc.

If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.

kcpasco · 08-09-2018, 09:48 PM

Why do you guys think this offense will be great? Did you watch the o line.

Rasputin · 08-10-2018, 02:48 AM

This o line is a major concern especially on the left side with Fisher anchoring. He needs to bulk up do roids or something and get roidrage on the field.

Nickhead · 08-10-2018, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

This o line is a major concern especially on the left side with Fisher anchoring. He needs to bulk up do roids or something and get roidrage on the field.

unless harrison returns in the post season, fisher will have a great year

rabblerouser · 08-10-2018, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Really good? Blew huge lead in the playoff? Twice! 2 of the 4 worst blown leads in the playoffs in the history of football are owned by this guy in a short stint of 4 years.

I'd say we had really 1 decent year of defense from Sutton. And even in that we blew a huge lead in the playoffs.

Both of those blown leads included a huge lead attained by aggressive offense in the first half, followed by the same offense going in a shell and not scoring points.

I blame Reid and Smith for both playoff losses more than I'd blame the defense - factor in Andrew Luck dribbling a fumble into the end zone on one game and Revis batting Mariota's duck back to him for a touchdown for the weirdness factor...THEN you've got stuff like DJs murder of Mariota called 'down by forward progress" (!) And somehow, that Colts defender was able to possess Alex Smith's 4th qtr fumble in the Colts playoff loss while literally laying on the ground, one butt check (along with half his body) being completely out of bounds...let's not even mention the (uncalled) mugging of DBowe on the final drive vs the Colts...

There's a LOT more to it than 'defense blew the leads in the playoffs'.

If Reid OR the refs call a better game, in EITHER game, we win

In a time where the rules are changed to favor the offense and reworded as to be able to be interpreted as opposed to absolute and enforceable, Reid/Smith and the refs deserve as much or more of the blame than the defense in BOTH of those losses.

Smith cost us the Pittsburgh game the year before last by missing wide open receivers in a game where points were at a premium.

We got beat at NE because Justin Houston was out so Sutton had to sit back and run Zone vs Brady, and Brady just picked us apart. And of course Reid/Smith couldn't keep up, points-wise.

It's a simpleton who goes "that defense sucks. Is this the Dick Vermeil era?"

Come on.

Bob Sutton is WAY better than Greg Robinson.

Best22 · 08-10-2018, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

Both of those blown leads included a huge lead attained by aggressive offense in the first half, followed by the same offense going in a shell and not scoring points.

I blame Reid and Smith for both playoff losses more than I'd blame the defense - factor in Andrew Luck dribbling a fumble into the end zone on one game and Revis batting Mariota's duck back to him for a touchdown for the weirdness factor...THEN you've got stuff like DJs murder of Mariota called 'down by forward progress" (!) And somehow, that Colts defender was able to possess Alex Smith's 4th qtr fumble in the Colts playoff loss while literally laying on the ground, one butt check (along with half his body) being completely out of bounds...let's not even mention the (uncalled) mugging of DBowe on the final drive vs the Colts...

There's a LOT more to it than 'defense blew the leads in the playoffs'.

If Reid OR the refs call a better game, in EITHER game, we win

In a time where the rules are changed to favor the offense and reworded as to be able to be interpreted as opposed to absolute and enforceable, Reid/Smith and the refs deserve as much or more of the blame than the defense in BOTH of those losses.

Smith cost us the Pittsburgh game the year before last by missing wide open receivers in a game where points were at a premium.

We got beat at NE because Justin Houston was out so Sutton had to sit back and run Zone vs Brady, and Brady just picked us apart. And of course Reid/Smith couldn't keep up, points-wise.

It's a simpleton who goes "that defense sucks. Is this the Dick Vermeil era?"

Come on.

Bob Sutton is WAY better than Greg Robinson.

Anytime you score 44 points and lose, the defense gets 70% of the blame, atleast. The reason no one felt safe with a 38-10 lead is because the defense was trash. Remember the Oakland game? 35-10 lead glcut to 35-31. Alex Smith and Jamaal Charles baled is out in that one

rabblerouser · 08-10-2018, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Sutton was a part of the Rex Ryan defensive philosophy, no? That ain't bend-but-don't-break.

ha.

Depends on the personnel, ya know?

When Ryan was in Buffalo, his defense was 'suck-but-don't-bend'.

rabblerouser · 08-10-2018, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Best22

Anytime you score 44 points and lose, the defense gets 70% of the blame, atleast. The reason no one felt safe with a 38-10 lead is because the defense was trash. Remember the Oakland game? 35-10 lead glcut to 35-31. Alex Smith and Jamaal Charles baled is out in that one

What Oakland game? Where at and what year? There's two a year.

I remember the @Oakland game last year where the refs kept throwing flags for defensive penalties for untimed down after untimed down until the Oakland offense scored.

The rules favor the offense.

****, the Steelers scored 40-some in a playoff game, LOST, then fired their OFFENSIVE coordinator.

Should have scored 50.

It's 2018 in the NFL, the defenders aren't allowed to touch the QB or the WRs.

Score more points.

GloryDayz · 08-10-2018, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

This o line is a major concern especially on the left side with Fisher anchoring. He needs to bulk up do roids or something and get roidrage on the field.

He's not a gladiator (either)...

TEX · 08-10-2018, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabblerouser

What Oakland game? Where at and what year? There's two a year.

I remember the @Oakland game last year where the refs kept throwing flags for defensive penalties for untimed down after untimed down until the Oakland offense scored.

The rules favor the offense.

****, the Steelers scored 40-some in a playoff game, LOST, then fired their OFFENSIVE coordinator.

Should have scored 50.

It's 2018 in the NFL, the defenders aren't allowed to touch the QB or the WRs.

Score more points.

2013 at Oakland I believe. When Charles taunted the Black Hole and scored like 5 TD's.

rabblerouser · 08-10-2018, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

2013 at Oakland I believe. When Charles taunted the Black Hole and scored like 5 TD's.

Oh yeah, that was classic.

**MahiMike** · 08-10-2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

Defense still looks soft and doing the same shit. No push, playing way off of WR's. I know it's just pre-season game #1 but some things just need to be evident all the time. Things like push at the line are something we need to see all the time from our 1's & 2's

This is what pisses me off the most about our defense. Playing 10 yards off every damn time. The offense just calls the same play every time. AND IT WORKS!

**petegz28** · 08-10-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MahiMike

This is what pisses me off the most about our defense. Playing 10 yards off every damn time. The offense just calls the same play every time. AND IT WORKS!

It wouldn't be so bad if the CB didn't drop yet another 10 when the ball is snapped. That makes come-back routes almost automatic. When the ball is snapped, the WR just has to run straight for about 5 yards and our CB will be 20 yards off an no one around the WR to stop an easy 8-9 yard throw.

Molitoth · 08-10-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petegz28

It wouldn't be so bad if the CB didn't drop yet another 10 when the ball is snapped. That makes come-back routes almost automatic. When the ball is snapped, the WR just has to run straight for about 5 yards and our CB will be 20 yards off an no one around the WR to stop an easy 8-9 yard throw.

Our CB's have been doing this during Sutton's entire tenure.
It's lame and teams know how to beat it. We got lucky one year by leading the league in turnovers (Thanks Marcus Peters).

Sutton is still the biggest liability on this team.

**petegz28** · 09-16-2018, 02:37 PM

Bumping for the obvious...

We are looking at Vermeil 2.0

All offense, no defense

Coach · 09-16-2018, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC Tattoo

This o line is a major concern especially on the left side with Fisher anchoring. He needs to bulk up do roids or something and get roidrage on the field.

Run blocking could use some improvement all around, but pass protection have been pretty solid overall.

Even Erving appears to be playing decently. I haven't heard his name (that I recall) that he got flagged for holding or false start in the last two games, so that's usually a good sign.

08-02-2018, 09:00 AM
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-875873	Are We Headed For Vermeil 2.0? The way Mahomes can sling the ball shows promise for some high scoring offense. That being said, is the defense going to be able to cut it this season? One thing that bailed out the defense to a degree the last few seasons was that Smith rarely turned the ball over. Even in a 3 & out situation, MVP usually kicked the ball deep enough to control field position. Mahomes is neither Green nor Smith. I think he will put up the points Green did but obviously is going to have more turnovers than Smith did. Which is okay. But the defense can't be what it has been. The defense and Bob Sutton are going to have to learn how to help out when those turnovers happen as they are probably going to happen more than they are used too given the nature of Mahomes. We know there are going to be some great passing plays. We also know that gunslingers will usually throw a few more INT's as well trying to make plays happen. Again, that is okay. The Sutton defense of "bend but don't break" may have to take a page out of the Denver defense and start really getting after the QB and actually shutting down offenses before they get into FG range, etc. If our defense is anything like has been during the Sutton era, we could be heading toward Vermeil 2.0 where you're going to have to hope 49 points is enough to win.
Posts: 132,266

08-09-2018, 09:48 PM	#106
kcpasco MVP Join Date: Sep 2007 Casino cash: $6143463	Why do you guys think this offense will be great? Did you watch the o line.
Posts: 15,945

08-10-2018, 02:48 AM	#107
Rasputin Tip of the hat LIV Champs Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: ks Casino cash: $235421	This o line is a major concern especially on the left side with Fisher anchoring. He needs to bulk up do roids or something and get roidrage on the field.
Posts: 56,907

09-16-2018, 02:37 PM	#119
petegz28 Supporter Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Olathe, Ks Casino cash: $-875873	Bumping for the obvious... We are looking at Vermeil 2.0 All offense, no defense
Posts: 132,266