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Old 06-27-2016, 11:23 AM  
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Old 12-18-2017, 09:04 PM   #1486
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Last question (for tonight) but now I am confused on the terminology and what they mean. Did a screenshot of my scenario on GE when looking up the option chain on TD Ameritrade.

If I wanted to sell a put on GE at $15, would I select the "buy" or "sell" option on this chart (what's the difference?)? What do the bid and ask prices represent in this?

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Old 12-18-2017, 11:00 PM   #1487
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Originally Posted by lewdog View Post
Last question (for tonight) but now I am confused on the terminology and what they mean. Did a screenshot of my scenario on GE when looking up the option chain on TD Ameritrade.

If I wanted to sell a put on GE at $15, would I select the "buy" or "sell" option on this chart (what's the difference?)? What do the bid and ask prices represent in this?

Okay, let's start here...

Bid = the price you will sell at or, the price the market maker will buy from you...

Ask= the price you will buy at or, the price at which the market maker will sell to you...

When you buy a stock, option, futures contract, etc., you generally buy at the Ask..

When you sell, you sell at the Bid...

So in your example you would "Sell" or "Sell to Open" at .09 which is the Bid.

So, you will be paid 9$ for each contract you sell. Each contract is 100 shares so basically, .09 a share.

To close the position you would Buy or Buy to Cover. Or simply let the option expire worthless if it is out of the money at expiration.

But think about it...you're going to get $9 - Commission...on an option that is 80+ days out....not worth it


Like I said, people love to talk about Options. How great they are, how much money you can make, etc., etc. Especially the dolts on Fast Money on CNBC. But they always talk in gross terms, never in net terms.

If I were you, and you want to get started in options I would stick with either covered call writing or straddles\strangles.

A strangle is when you buy a Call and a Put at the same strike price. What you want is for the stock to move hard in one direction or the other. You're going to lose on one and make money on the other. The goal is to have the winner cover the loss of the loser and then some. But you have to be picky when you buy those.

A straddle is the same but and wider strike prices. So if a stock is at $50 you might buy a $52 Call and a $48 Put thus "straddling" the current price. It's cheaper than a strangle but I think harder to make money.

People fall in love with the fact they can pay a little money for an option contract and potentially make huge money. And you can. Very few are consistently good at it. Most lose a ton more than they win.

Use Options wisely. Buy a stock. If it goes up and you want to lock in some profit, write a Call. If you think the stock will tank cause the market is going down and don't want to sell, buy a Put. You have to recover the price of a Put though if the stock doesn't go down.

Always remember this...

When Buying an option you have to be right, right now. And depending on how out of the money the option is, you have to be right about 3 things..

1. The timing
2. The direction
3. The amount of the movement

So the inverse is true for writing..

You really need to get some books on Options to understand how they work. How time eats at the value of an option...
How volatility effects price...
What Delta is...

But please, if you do anything heed this little tidbit...

If you want to buy an option, buy several months out and close to the current price. Don't try to buy an option 5 points out of the money that expires in 3 weeks....

As a buyer, time is your enemy so you have to buy time...literally

If you want to Write options, write current month options. The closer an option gets to expiration, the faster the time value (Theta) comes out of the option. So use that to your advantage....
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:10 PM   #1488
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Remember an option on an equity is the right but not obligation to exercise the option at that agreed upon strike price.

The value of an option depends on the market price of the underlying during the life of the option (Euro options can only be exercised at the contract expiry date, American can be exercised anytime).

Now, if you're buying an option you're buying that right but not obligation to exercise that contract and acquire the underlying security at the strike price.

Say it's Thursday and you have a call expiring on Friday. This call strike price is $110. If GE ends the day of trading above $110, then your option has value (ignoring commissions, of course) to either exercise the option and buy the stock at the strike price or just sell the option to another party. If it's trading below $110, then you $110 strike price option is worthless.

Basically, you are coming out ahead of a trader who thought GE would not exceed $110 a share on Friday.

If you have purchased a put with a $90 strike with the same expiry and underlying equity, then it's kind of the reverse. If GE closes above $90, your put has no value and presents no profit. If GE closes under $90, it has value and can be sold for a profit (or exercised). You are coming out ahead based on a Trader who thought GE would not go below $90 a share.

The value to you depends on this in generalized math: Strike Price - Stock Price = profit if you have purchased a call and Stock - Strike = profit if you have purchased a put

BUT if you're selling an option (you are writing an option) the dynamic is reversed. If you sell a $110 GE call and GE trades at $110 or more in the market, you have to pay the costs to fulfill the contract and provide GE stock to the option buyer and sell it to the option buyer at $110 even thought the stock is trading for potentially $150 in the market.

Writing a naked put at $90 and GE goes lower than $90, then you incur unlimited loss potential from fulfilling that contract.

Your only upside in writing a naked put is if the underlying stock doesn't fall below the strike price and your profit is capped at the premium you receive for selling that put.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:29 PM   #1489
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Writing a put does not create unlimited loss potential. Writing a call does.
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:38 PM   #1490
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Originally Posted by Nightfyre View Post
Writing a put does not create unlimited loss potential. Writing a call does.
https://www.optionseducation.org/str...naked_put.html
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Old 12-18-2017, 11:59 PM   #1491
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Maximum loss of writing a put is 100 times the strike price, not unlimited. As it says in your link.
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Old 12-19-2017, 12:04 AM   #1492
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Maximum loss of writing a put is 100 times the strike price, not unlimited. As it says in your link.
I wasn't paying attention and deleted my comment:

Yes, you are right. I flipped the loss potential of puts with calls.
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:46 AM   #1493
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Old 12-19-2017, 07:47 AM   #1494
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Originally Posted by lewdog View Post
Ok bud, I have covered calls down.

Now on to puts.

How did you buy a stock at $19ish and have it currently trading in the $17's but "made" money on it losing value? How do you short a stock you currently own and where does the money you make come from?

What do you mean when you say "I averaged down and the call premiums had no good value?"

Thanks for the help! I owe you a beer!
I began buying the stock at $19.94 and bought more down to $19.01 with a cost basis of $19.54.

I also after the last purchase of the stock bought 10 out of the money puts with a $18.00 strike for June 2018 cost of $1.22 each for a total of $1,246 w commission.

The stock has gone down since I purchased losing money in the short term and the puts have gone up slightly cutting my total loss on GE. I would need to sell the puts to recoup some of the losses in the stock. Right now all profits and losses are on paper.

The puts are independent of the stock.

Next time we meet I'll give you an in depth lesson BEFORE we drink....
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Old 12-19-2017, 08:01 AM   #1495
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Maximum loss of writing a put is 100 times the strike price, not unlimited. As it says in your link.
That's a confusing way to explain it so I'll expand your answer.

If you "write" a single PUT, it means you are giving someone the right to PUT the stock to you at a specified price before a specific time. These are called NAKED PUTS.

So if someone wrote a single put contract, which equals 100 shares of the underlying stock, for let's say $1.72 for the put contract on US Steel with a strike price of $30 and the expiration of April 20, 2018 you would collect $172 minus a small commission.

So now if the stock plummets and goes down to $25, someone who owns the put option you sold can sell the stock to you at $30 and you must pay $3,000 for a stock now only worth $2,500. You have an immediate loss of $500 - your put money of $172.

The most you could lose would be if US Steel went to $0 and you got forced to pay $3,000 for stock that is now zero and you would be out the $3,000 - $172 premium you collected when you wrote the option.

Remember one thing, the higher the stock price when writing a naked put the greater the dollar loss if it goes against you.

Some hedge funds and traders who want to buy a stock at a cheaper price if it is too high now, write a large amount of naked puts as a way to own a lot of stock on a decline while collecting the premium. If it doesn't go down, they still make money on the premium they collected. They will usually buy the puts underneath the ones they wrote so if the stock drops too much, they have some protection when there is a huge drop. This is called a STRADDLE
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Old 12-20-2017, 09:11 AM   #1496
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I actually bought moar at 32. The tax plan passing should give this a boost

Sitting at 34.46 right now


These Steel/ Metals/Mining stocks are doing well since the middle of November. opportunity here ??

NUE 2.43% Dividend

STLD 1.5% dividend

TX 3.21% Dividend

GGB 0.69% Dividend

SMSMY 2.48% Dividend

AKS 0Dividend

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Old 12-20-2017, 10:25 AM   #1497
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MU Micron Technology has a target price of $57-$85 .Currently at $45.

Good chance of 50% gain over next 12 months.

Good fundamentals with the company but they don't pay a dividend.
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:36 PM   #1498
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MU Micron Technology has a target price of $57-$85 .Currently at $45.

Good chance of 50% gain over next 12 months.

Good fundamentals with the company but they don't pay a dividend.
You getting in?
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:12 PM   #1499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hog's Gone Fishin View Post
MU Micron Technology has a target price of $57-$85 .Currently at $45.

Good chance of 50% gain over next 12 months.

Good fundamentals with the company but they don't pay a dividend.
I still ache for you every time I see the price of Nvidia
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:19 PM   #1500
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You getting in?
I sent you PM but yeah I think tomorrow I'll see. They interviewed the CEO today on CNBC. I think its a solid company headed in the right direction. Good chart for the last year and they have great Fundamentals. They're on top of AI and IOT which is getting huge.
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