Investing megathread extravaganza

[DaFace]

A place to talk about investing stuff.

[O.city]

Thanks guys. We can't do a Roth, and I can only write off so much interest on the student loans. It sucks and it's bullshit, but whatever.

I can set up a 401k thru my office and max it out, which is something I'm starting this year as well. I don't really think I will need or atleast hope I won't need the $ until retirement, but I wonder if I'd be better off paying that in my student loans instead. It's at 7% and I graduated with 301k a few years back. I've got it down under 200k, but I've been throwing alot at it just to get out from under it asap.

Not sure that's wise, but it makes me feel better.

On a side note, fwiw, it's interesting to see how pts view dentists. They seem to think I'm just rolling in cash. Don't get me wrong, I do well, but between having student loan debt, buying a practice and all the shit thay comes with that, I was about 650k in debt before I had a single pt in the chair.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sure there are ways to go about getting into dentistry with less debt and I wish, with hindsight, I'd have done a military residency and gave the gov service for some debt repayment, but it is what it is. I lucked into a really good practice opp that's turned out well for me so I'm not upset, just tend to be tired.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

It depends. I don't know their income, but if he and his wife both max out a 401k/403b/whatever, max out HSA if they have a HDHC plan, etc. they could bring their AGI low enough to contribute to a Roth.

This was an option I considered. I don't know much about the HSA, but we do have a hdhc plan for myself but the kids are a bit different as the wife feels they need good coverage.

Instead of the hsa, I tend to keep quite a bit of cash in my practice llc account for emergencies. Dunno if that's wise or not.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by O.city

Thanks guys. We can't do a Roth, and I can only write off so much interest on the student loans. It sucks and it's bullshit, but whatever.

I can set up a 401k thru my office and max it out, which is something I'm starting this year as well. I don't really think I will need or atleast hope I won't need the $ until retirement, but I wonder if I'd be better off paying that in my student loans instead. It's at 7% and I graduated with 301k a few years back. I've got it down under 200k, but I've been throwing alot at it just to get out from under it asap.

Not sure that's wise, but it makes me feel better.

On a side note, fwiw, it's interesting to see how pts view dentists. They seem to think I'm just rolling in cash. Don't get me wrong, I do well, but between having student loan debt, buying a practice and all the shit thay comes with that, I was about 650k in debt before I had a single pt in the chair.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows. Sure there are ways to go about getting into dentistry with less debt and I wish, with hindsight, I'd have done a military residency and gave the gov service for some debt repayment, but it is what it is. I lucked into a really good practice opp that's turned out well for me so I'm not upset, just tend to be tired.

Oh hell, there are phase outs for student loan interests. Forgot that. My bad.

I'm with you on the money thing. My gross receipts are pretty damn high. My net income is far lower. My net cash flow to management is really pretty dang low. So I'm handling a shitload of money, and trying to hang onto a couple bills as they flow by.

Regarding your debt service, servicing your business debt is paramount. If

you have to borrow money for anything, you will be borrowing against the equity in the business. That's not to say, don't pay attention to your student loans, especially if those rates are higher, but you really need to mind the equity in your practice, especially since it is in an LLC.

If you're good with that, plowing out student loan debt is good, especially if they are at 7%.

I'm glad you're doing well though. I have a friend that graduated vet school a few years ago with somewhere near your numbers. Now she's looking for hardship exemptions and shit. I told her she's way tougher than me. If I wasn't able to service debt, I'd melt down. Like full on nuclear meltdown. That is probably my biggest fear.

I'm also with you on the tired bit. I'm not so much tired of the job. I've worked a metric ****ton of hours, which sucks and I'm trying to do better on, but my bullshit tolerance is used up. Anymore I'm criminally pragmatic, and if you can't help me, or you **** around and waste my time, I might cut your head off. I'm working on that too, but that's a tougher one.

All that being said, I wouldn't change it. I don't miss corporate life. Like at all. Even when I'm working a billion hours.

Originally Posted by O.city

This was an option I considered. I don't know much about the HSA, but we do have a hdhc plan for myself but the kids are a bit different as the wife feels they need good coverage.

Instead of the hsa, I tend to keep quite a bit of cash in my practice llc account for emergencies. Dunno if that's wise or not.

Cash on hand is a good idea IMO. You'd like to be able to get a return on it, but I try to keep as much cash as I can because it always spends and it's always there.

That being said, if you have a personal emergency, make sure you talk to an accountant and review your operating agreement before you pull your money out and spend it on a non-business expense. Most guys don't give a shit, but I work very hard not to pierce the corporate veil.

Again, I'm really glad you're doing well. I felt overwhelmed with the $35K I graduated with.

[ChiliConCarnage]

Originally Posted by O.city

This was an option I considered. I don't know much about the HSA, but we do have a hdhc plan for myself but the kids are a bit different as the wife feels they need good coverage.

Instead of the hsa, I tend to keep quite a bit of cash in my practice llc account for emergencies. Dunno if that's wise or not.

You should definitely look into a HSA. I'm not exactly sure how it works for an llc but at least as an employee it lowers your taxable AGI and let's you pay for healthcare items with untaxed dollars. I remember the list of things you can use it to pay for being pretty broad too, such as contact lens solution, glasses, cough syrup. It definitely wasn't just the stuff you'd use your insurance card on

It's also the best retirement vehicle offered to Americans so if you can afford your healthcare deductible then you should invest the HSA in the stock market as it is triple tax deferred unlike a 401k or IRA you never pay taxes on funds going into or coming out of a HSA as long as they're approved healthcare expenditures. Until your 65, after that you can use it for hookers and blow or a boat if you want

[FD]

Originally Posted by lewdog

That's terrible reasoning.

He has other investments and this is his "play" money. You won't always be a winner and I am sure he's learning from his mistakes. If you don't want the risk, don't do it, that's my choice. But I understand options stock trading (thanks Scho!) and why some do it.

If he took his "play" money and put it in a broad market index fund he'd have $41,000 more today than he does. Losing money on stocks over the past 8 years is beyond embarrassing.

If you want to gamble, go to Las Vegas, throw your money away, but don't act like you're doing something half-intelligent or that you have advice others could learn from.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Oh hell, there are phase outs for student loan interests. Forgot that. My bad.

I'm with you on the money thing. My gross receipts are pretty damn high. My net income is far lower. My net cash flow to management is really pretty dang low. So I'm handling a shitload of money, and trying to hang onto a couple bills as they flow by.

Regarding your debt service, servicing your business debt is paramount. If

you have to borrow money for anything, you will be borrowing against the equity in the business. That's not to say, don't pay attention to your student loans, especially if those rates are higher, but you really need to mind the equity in your practice, especially since it is in an LLC.

If you're good with that, plowing out student loan debt is good, especially if they are at 7%.

I'm glad you're doing well though. I have a friend that graduated vet school a few years ago with somewhere near your numbers. Now she's looking for hardship exemptions and shit. I told her she's way tougher than me. If I wasn't able to service debt, I'd melt down. Like full on nuclear meltdown. That is probably my biggest fear.

I'm also with you on the tired bit. I'm not so much tired of the job. I've worked a metric ****ton of hours, which sucks and I'm trying to do better on, but my bullshit tolerance is used up. Anymore I'm criminally pragmatic, and if you can't help me, or you **** around and waste my time, I might cut your head off. I'm working on that too, but that's a tougher one.

All that being said, I wouldn't change it. I don't miss corporate life. Like at all. Even when I'm working a billion hours.



Cash on hand is a good idea IMO. You'd like to be able to get a return on it, but I try to keep as much cash as I can because it always spends and it's always there.

That being said, if you have a personal emergency, make sure you talk to an accountant and review your operating agreement before you pull your money out and spend it on a non-business expense. Most guys don't give a shit, but I work very hard not to pierce the corporate veil.

Again, I'm really glad you're doing well. I felt overwhelmed with the $35K I graduated with.

I am the owner of the office, the way I understand it, I can do what I need to with that money, if worst comes to worst. It's not ideal from a tax standpoint though.

Yeah, the debt sucks. It is what it is it was about my only option to becoming a dentist. My parents couldn't foot that bill and frankly, I didn't expect them to. I had a golf Scholie for undergrad and with academic stuff, that got me thru undergrad.

We really lucked out in that my wife got into her business at the right time and is doing well, so I'm throwing as much $ at debt as I can. I figure I can be debt free by 35ish, no student loan and no practice debt. If I can do that, I'll flip all that to my retirement and kids stuff.

Or atleast that's the plan

[Abba-Dabba]

Originally Posted by RubberSponge

Don't worry about the money you didn't make. I scoped out NVDA 6 months ago and didn't put in a dime. Dumb. Have to move on.

I try to stay away from long options as much as I can. I am not a big fan of having a significant amount of money tied up for a long period of time without a dividend. Having said that, they definitely have there place to make money. Been looking long call options on MU at 25 but have not pulled the trigger.

When this post was made, MU closed at 22.34 on 1/09/17

Today it closed at 28.43. Wish I would have followed my advice and bought option contracts of it a long time ago. Could have retired! I kid. Maybe take a damn nice trip.

On another note, as far as buying MJ stocks that are cheap, I like CNAB the best. I don't have much money in them and wouldn't advise to buy a bunch either. I just like what I see from them at this point.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by FD

If he took his "play" money and put it in a broad market index fund he'd have $41,000 more today than he does. Losing money on stocks over the past 8 years is beyond embarrassing.

If you want to gamble, go to Las Vegas, throw your money away, but don't act like you're doing something half-intelligent or that you have advice others could learn from.

For the record, he clearly helped many of us understand options trading in his scenarios. He stated multiple times there was a lot of risk involved. He never once said, this is a "must investment" or pedaled his ideas on anyone. There's no hurt in learning about something in the market and deciding for yourself if you are ok with the risk. That in a nutshell, is investing.

[scho63]

Originally Posted by FD

If he took his "play" money and put it in a broad market index fund he'd have $41,000 more today than he does. Losing money on stocks over the past 8 years is beyond embarrassing.

If you want to gamble, go to Las Vegas, throw your money away, but don't act like you're doing something half-intelligent or that you have advice others could learn from.

If the Queen had balls she would be the King

If I didn't spend $500,000-600,000 eating and drinking these past 20-25 years I would be retired

If I shorted the market the day before 1987 Black Monday I would be rich

If I bought Microsoft or Apple when they first came out I would be rich

If I exercised more I wouldn't be fat

You said you play craps.....I guess that gambling is ok but mine is not.

My 401K did very well and so did some of my other stocks.

By the way, I made another nearly $4,000 the last two days in BABA options, both CALLS and PUTS.

[Demonpenz]

I am sure I am the only numb nuts that does this. I got a car loan with zero interest because I got good credit. I pay 2 dollars every month when I pay online for a convince fee. So what's the point of zero interest if you still pay money. I finally just got in the habit of mailing in a check to avoid the fee.

[Demonpenz]

I don't get the max out 401k Roth or Roth IRA. Also money is about feeling good or secure. If you can find a reason to not shoot yourself by Gambling in the market go for it. Not everyone finds boring investing interesting. I gamble at the boat but want something stable to retire on.

[FD]

Originally Posted by scho63

If the Queen had balls she would be the King

If I didn't spend $500,000-600,000 eating and drinking these past 20-25 years I would be retired

If I shorted the market the day before 1987 Black Monday I would be rich

If I bought Microsoft or Apple when they first came out I would be rich

If I exercised more I wouldn't be fat

You said you play craps.....I guess that gambling is ok but mine is not.

My 401K did very well and so did some of my other stocks.

By the way, I made another nearly $4,000 the last two days in BABA options, both CALLS and PUTS.

I'm not very optimistic that this will work, but I think it's worth a try. I'm going to say this one last time and hope it sinks in: you are bad at what you do and you should stop doing it.

For anyone else reading this who has "learned" from this guy, he is not someone you want to learn from. If a significant part of your knowledge about options trading comes from a guy on a football message board, you should not be doing options trading. It is a bad idea.

[scho63]

Originally Posted by FD

I'm not very optimistic that this will work, but I think it's worth a try. I'm going to say this one last time and hope it sinks in: you are bad at what you do and you should stop doing it.

For anyone else reading this who has "learned" from this guy, he is not someone you want to learn from. If a significant part of your knowledge about options trading comes from a guy on a football message board, you should not be doing options trading. It is a bad idea.

Show me where I tell one single person in this thread they should trade options? I haven't

I've spent years as a broker in a prior life.

I talk all the time about risk, risk, and risk. Not for the average or unsophisticated investor. I haven't even gotten into covered call writing or naked put selling, which is a whole other level of crazy that I don't participate in.

I link to the CBOE and other investor based explanations on options. I explain some basics

Show me one time I gave false information about options? You can't!

You have a deeper issue going on......
Maybe you lost money on options and are bitter?
Maybe you invested in penny stocks from a newsletter and cost you money?
Maybe you are reformed gambler?
Something more is going on with you.......

[FD]

Originally Posted by scho63

Show me where I tell one single person in this thread they should trade options? I haven't

I've spent years as a broker in a prior life.

I talk all the time about risk, risk, and risk. Not for the average or unsophisticated investor. I haven't even gotten into covered call writing or naked put selling, which is a whole other level of crazy that I don't participate in.

I link to the CBOE and other investor based explanations on options. I explain some basics

Show me one time I gave false information about options? You can't!

You have a deeper issue going on......
Maybe you lost money on options and are bitter?
Maybe you invested in penny stocks from a newsletter and cost you money?
Maybe you are reformed gambler?
Something more is going on with you.......

I'm just a guy who knows a lot about money management and hopes there aren't people on here reading this thread and making terrible decisions with their money like you.

[scho63]

Originally Posted by FD

I'm just a guy who knows a lot about money management and hopes there aren't people on here reading this thread and making terrible decisions with their money like you.

You didn't answer a single question I asked.

So playing craps is the good money management skills you speak off?

I'm not risking my rent or car payment money.

I'm enjoying 6-9 months off in the sunshine in Scottsdale AZ without working a single day at 54 years old so I think I've done a few things right.

But that's OK, I'm sure you are the money manager to the stars in Hollywood.