Who's your dark horse? - Page 5

staylor26 · 11:51 PM

We all know Dorsey is full of surprises on draft day. Why should this year be any different?

T.J. Green, CB/S, Clemson- 6'2" with a 4.34 40. Former WR (very good ball skills). This guy screams Dorsey to me. Flashed in man coverage, but he's only played safety. Was a physical player at the safety position, so with his athletic ability he is a very intriguing potential press man convert. Green Bay made a similar move (safety to corner convert) with Randle last year and the Eagles did it with Rowe (though he had a year of experience in college at corner). He also "models his games after Eric Berry".

Daniel Jeremiah says his buddies in the scouting community tell him Green has a good shot at going at the end of the 1st to a press man team that views him as a corner.

HM: Cody Whitehair, Artie Burns (not as much of a "dark horse" now).

O.city · 04-24-2016, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The Patriots weren't explosive, in any of their wins..
The Seahawks weren't explosive.
Neither were the Giants in any of their wins.
Neither were the Steelers in their first win with Roethlisberger.

They well rounded, but with defense and efficient offense.

The pats last decade, which has included 1 SB win, they've been explosive on offense. Seattle and NY had the ability to be explosive.

Explosive doesn't have to be throwing it everydown, but the chiefs have to become more explosive offensively than they have been the past 2 or 3 years.

RunKC · 04-24-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

While I think Alex Smith has improved as a QB who looks downfield, as long as he's the QB, this offense will not be explosive.
If you're investing draft resources to improve the offense, I'd start at O-Line to improve protection, which would improve efficiency, which is Smith's strength.

This team is going to win with an offense that supports the defense.

That is why improving the quality of corners is more imperative than reciever, IMO.

IMO any offense can be explosive if you have the weapons. Matt Cassel ran a top 10 offense with good coaching and elite talent in NE in 2008.

In a WCO, we have a coach to make QB's look better, but we don't have complete weapons. Maclin alone took this offense to another level last year. Charles, Kelce and Maclin are as good of a trio as any in the NFL. Add another good WR (Conley IMO) and we're good to go, especially with an above average OL.

I do agree that you need to have good defenders if you don't have a franchise QB. That's why I want to stack the defense with another CB and pass rushing interior DL with our first 2 picks.

RunKC · 04-24-2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The Patriots weren't explosive, in any of their wins..
The Seahawks weren't explosive.
Neither were the Giants in any of their wins.
Neither were the Steelers in their first win with Roethlisberger.

They well rounded, but with defense and efficient offense.

100% agree.

milkman · 04-24-2016, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

The pats last decade, which has included 1 SB win, they've been explosive on offense. Seattle and NY had the ability to be explosive.

Explosive doesn't have to be throwing it everydown, but the chiefs have to become more explosive offensively than they have been the past 2 or 3 years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

100% agree.

Every one of those teams won by running the ball, or moving the chains with the short passing game.
They won with efficient offense, not explosive offense.

Sure, they all had big plays mixed in, but they weren't explosive like the Packers.

Even the Ravens with Dilfer, and the Bucs with Johnson, had explosive plays.

But none of them were explosive offenses.

**DaneMcCloud** · 04-24-2016, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

The Patriots weren't explosive, in any of their wins..
The Seahawks weren't explosive.
Neither were the Giants in any of their wins.
Neither were the Steelers in their first win with Roethlisberger.

They well rounded, but with defense and efficient offense.

Agreed.

This offense should be more efficient in 2016 due to the upgrade in blocking (Mitchell Schwartz to this point) along with the maturation of Conley, Wilson, Ware and West.

But they don't need to be Top Ten in yardage to win a Super Bowl.

O.city · 04-24-2016, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Every one of those teams won by running the ball, or moving the chains with the short passing game.
They won with efficient offense, not explosive offense.

Sure, they all had big plays mixed in, but they weren't explosive like the Packers.

Even the Ravens with Dilfer, and the Bucs with Johnson, had explosive plays.

But none of them were explosive offenses.

There have been explosive offenses win superbowls recently as well. Last year's pats, the broncos had a top 5 offense of all time make it to the superbowl.

Not the chiefs will never be a rodgers run explosive offense, but they have to have more quick strike ability.

I think that's the next step this season.

RunKC · 04-24-2016, 05:32 PM

G or WR really isn't surprising anymore.

WJIII and Apple will be gone. It's highly unlikely either fall.
Unfortunately Vernon Butler will major likely be gone as well. Detroit is looking at DL and GB wouldn't pass on him after losing Raji and having 4 DL in their current rotation.
Darron Lee is going to be gone IMO due to his value in today's NFL, I think Coleman is gone too (Houston apparently loves him).

At this point it's the troubled kids (Nkemdiche/Alexander), maybe Ragland, 2nd tier CB's, 2nd tier DL and 2nd tier WR's that are essentially Rd 2 prospects and projects (Braxton Miller/TJ Green).

Vonn Bell, Karl Joseph, Cody Whitehair, Josh Garnett, Reggie Ragland. That's looking like your best available.

O.city · 04-24-2016, 05:41 PM

Take Alexander and go about my business

milkman · 04-24-2016, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

There have been explosive offenses win superbowls recently as well. Last year's pats, the broncos had a top 5 offense of all time make it to the superbowl.

Not the chiefs will never be a rodgers run explosive offense, but they have to have more quick strike ability.

I think that's the next step this season.

I never said that explosive offenses don't win SBs.
I said that you don't need explosive offense to win.

And quick strike ability is a necessary part of an efficient offense, which is why I noted Smith's improvement in looking downfield.

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Take Alexander and go about my business

I also wasn't arguing against a receiver.
I was pointing out what I perceive to be the flaw in logic in the post that I initially responded to.

O.city · 04-24-2016, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I never said that explosive offenses don't win SBs.
I said that you don't need explosive offense to win.

And quick strike ability is a necessary part of an efficient offense, which is why I noted Smith's improvement in looking downfield.

I also wasn't arguing against a receiver.
I was pointing out what I perceive to be the flaw in logic in the post that I initially responded to.

I agree, especially with the beginning. There's multiple ways to get it done in the nfl.

However we may feel about smith, I'm sure the front office feels enough weapons around him can allow him to succeed.

kccrow · 04-24-2016, 08:38 PM

Respectable opinions and thoughts guys. I take one note with milkman's last post that I think hits the nail on what I meant by "explosive," when he states "quick strike ability is a necessary part of an efficient offense." That element, that quick strike ability, is what the Chiefs have been missing. They haven't really struck fear into teams yet. You need that "other guy" that can take it to the house on any given play. That's the type of player Coleman is, or a Will Fuller, Braxton Miller, etc. You have to have multiple play makers IMO. The Chiefs have a good run game, they have a good #1, and they have a good TE. It's time to add that guy that keeps defenses from loading the box and rolling double coverage on Maclin. That's my take, anyhow.

It doesn't have to happen in round 1, but I think it should be a priority pick.

BlackOp · 04-24-2016, 11:21 PM

Spence or Whitehead in the 1st. Houston will miss time...and this is Hali's last season. Whitehead can play multiple positions in case of injury. That's an important trait in a 19 game season....who is the back-up LT? Dorsey will go for functional value @ 28.

Hoover · 04-25-2016, 06:17 AM

1. I trust John Dorsey. He's been incredible.
2. I expect the Chiefs to draft a DB in this draft in round one. Some DB Dorsey has a top 15 grade on will be there. Probably a CB, could also see Vonn Bell.
3. As for my dark horse, I'm going with a big fatty. Either some OT or there is a guard that they are in love with. Fisher is entering his final year/years. And we all know how Dorsey like to draft with an eye to the future. So my DARK HORSE is Joshua Garnett, G Stanford. This kid has 10 years written all over him in the NFL. Plug and Play!

**Bowser** · 04-25-2016, 08:30 AM

I'm sold we will take a DB
- Artie Burns
- Vonn Bell
- Alexander

We might take a guard
- Whitehair
- Garnett

We could take a pass rusher/OLB
- Kamalel Correa
- Leonard Floyd
- Su'a Cravens

We might take one of the receivers if they tumble down the board
- Corey Coleman
- Josh Doctson
- Will Fuller

Not sure how big of a dark horse any of those picks are, but I feel that one of them will be the pick.

O.city · 04-25-2016, 08:40 AM

I agree accept I don't think pass rusher will be an option

04-20-2016, 10:36 PM
staylor26 In Search of a Life Join Date: Oct 2007 Casino cash: $-1900960	Who's your dark horse? We all know Dorsey is full of surprises on draft day. Why should this year be any different? T.J. Green, CB/S, Clemson- 6'2" with a 4.34 40. Former WR (very good ball skills). This guy screams Dorsey to me. Flashed in man coverage, but he's only played safety. Was a physical player at the safety position, so with his athletic ability he is a very intriguing potential press man convert. Green Bay made a similar move (safety to corner convert) with Randle last year and the Eagles did it with Rowe (though he had a year of experience in college at corner). He also "models his games after Eric Berry". Daniel Jeremiah says his buddies in the scouting community tell him Green has a good shot at going at the end of the 1st to a press man team that views him as a corner. HM: Cody Whitehair, Artie Burns (not as much of a "dark horse" now). Last edited by staylor26; 04-20-2016 at 11:51 PM..
Posts: 52,845

04-24-2016, 05:32 PM	#67
RunKC Andy Reid Supporter Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $-1420389	G or WR really isn't surprising anymore. WJIII and Apple will be gone. It's highly unlikely either fall. Unfortunately Vernon Butler will major likely be gone as well. Detroit is looking at DL and GB wouldn't pass on him after losing Raji and having 4 DL in their current rotation. Darron Lee is going to be gone IMO due to his value in today's NFL, I think Coleman is gone too (Houston apparently loves him). At this point it's the troubled kids (Nkemdiche/Alexander), maybe Ragland, 2nd tier CB's, 2nd tier DL and 2nd tier WR's that are essentially Rd 2 prospects and projects (Braxton Miller/TJ Green). Vonn Bell, Karl Joseph, Cody Whitehair, Josh Garnett, Reggie Ragland. That's looking like your best available. __________________ Mike Greenberg@Espngreeny I can’t fathom what it must be like to be a fan of the #Chiefs. Adopt a Chief: Jared Wiley
Posts: 52,064

04-24-2016, 05:41 PM	#68
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-545936	Take Alexander and go about my business
Posts: 84,157

04-24-2016, 08:38 PM	#71
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1070000	Respectable opinions and thoughts guys. I take one note with milkman's last post that I think hits the nail on what I meant by "explosive," when he states "quick strike ability is a necessary part of an efficient offense." That element, that quick strike ability, is what the Chiefs have been missing. They haven't really struck fear into teams yet. You need that "other guy" that can take it to the house on any given play. That's the type of player Coleman is, or a Will Fuller, Braxton Miller, etc. You have to have multiple play makers IMO. The Chiefs have a good run game, they have a good #1, and they have a good TE. It's time to add that guy that keeps defenses from loading the box and rolling double coverage on Maclin. That's my take, anyhow. It doesn't have to happen in round 1, but I think it should be a priority pick.
Posts: 14,012

04-24-2016, 11:21 PM	#72
BlackOp MVP Join Date: Oct 2012 Casino cash: $2795267	Spence or Whitehead in the 1st. Houston will miss time...and this is Hali's last season. Whitehead can play multiple positions in case of injury. That's an important trait in a 19 game season....who is the back-up LT? Dorsey will go for functional value @ 28. Last edited by BlackOp; 04-24-2016 at 11:30 PM..
Posts: 19,109

04-25-2016, 06:17 AM	#73
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-1951821	1. I trust John Dorsey. He's been incredible. 2. I expect the Chiefs to draft a DB in this draft in round one. Some DB Dorsey has a top 15 grade on will be there. Probably a CB, could also see Vonn Bell. 3. As for my dark horse, I'm going with a big fatty. Either some OT or there is a guard that they are in love with. Fisher is entering his final year/years. And we all know how Dorsey like to draft with an eye to the future. So my DARK HORSE is Joshua Garnett, G Stanford. This kid has 10 years written all over him in the NFL. Plug and Play!
Posts: 18,016

04-25-2016, 08:30 AM	#74
Bowser sorta mod-ish Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: KC North Casino cash: $-28384	I'm sold we will take a DB - Artie Burns - Vonn Bell - Alexander We might take a guard - Whitehair - Garnett We could take a pass rusher/OLB - Kamalel Correa - Leonard Floyd - Su'a Cravens We might take one of the receivers if they tumble down the board - Corey Coleman - Josh Doctson - Will Fuller Not sure how big of a dark horse any of those picks are, but I feel that one of them will be the pick.
Posts: 106,612

04-25-2016, 08:40 AM	#75
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-545936	I agree accept I don't think pass rusher will be an option
Posts: 84,157