Who's your dark horse?

[staylor26]

We all know Dorsey is full of surprises on draft day. Why should this year be any different?

T.J. Green, CB/S, Clemson- 6'2" with a 4.34 40. Former WR (very good ball skills). This guy screams Dorsey to me. Flashed in man coverage, but he's only played safety. Was a physical player at the safety position, so with his athletic ability he is a very intriguing potential press man convert. Green Bay made a similar move (safety to corner convert) with Randle last year and the Eagles did it with Rowe (though he had a year of experience in college at corner). He also "models his games after Eric Berry".

Daniel Jeremiah says his buddies in the scouting community tell him Green has a good shot at going at the end of the 1st to a press man team that views him as a corner.

HM: Cody Whitehair, Artie Burns (not as much of a "dark horse" now).

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by RunKC

What I was pointing out is TJ Green is extremely raw and I don't want a project at 28. I think he's a Dee Ford type prospect that will take time wheras Bell is already experienced and ready.

And no I don't think it's a contradiction at all. Bell is 5'11 with arms that are longer with a much stronger body (16 bench reps). Plus he's not having reports of attitude or football IQ questions.

One inch, if that, for both. Alexander has more polish than those guys (WJ3/Apple), which was another reason I called it a contradiction. Not to mention he plays much bigger than Bell does. Bell lacks the physicality to go from FS to press corner. Bells reports of being "soft" are more concerning to me.

Also, I'll say it again, it doesn't take much experience to run around and chase a guy in man coverage, so the experience isn't THAT much of a concern for me. I love the traits and the fact that he's a former WR that moved to safety and showed physicality in the run game.

I have to say though, this shit about Alexander is being completely overblown. Even the guys that reported it aren't as down on him as you guys are after it. He said he was the best corner in the draft and some teams obviously had a problem with it. BIG ****ing DEAL. Guy has absolutely no red flags character wise previous to that. Again, he doesn't need a great football IQ to play corner for us.

You know who did the exact same thing? Dee Ford. And Dorsey had no problem with it.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by staylor26

One inch, if that, for both. Alexander has more polish than those guys (WJ3/Apple), which was another reason I called it a contradiction. Not to mention he plays much bigger than Bell does. Bell lacks the physicality to go from FS to press corner. Bells reports of being "soft" are more concerning to me.

Also, I'll say it again, it doesn't take much experience to run around and chase a guy in man coverage, so the experience isn't THAT much of a concern for me. I love the traits and the fact that he's a former WR that moved to safety and showed physicality in the run game.

I have to say though, this shit about Alexander is being completely overblown. Even the guys that reported it aren't as down on him as you guys are after it. He said he was the best corner in the draft and smoke teams obviously had a problem with it. BIG ****ing DEAL. Guy has absolutely no red flags character wise previous to that. Again, he doesn't need a great football IQ to play corner for us.

You know who did the exact same thing? Dee Ford. And Dorsey had no problem with it.

And we are still waiting for Dee Ford to finally break out. I've said it many times man. I don't want Dee Ford's in the first Rd this anymore. First or second year of a rebuild? Sure. When the team's in win now mode? **** no.

That's why I like Vernon Butler and WJIII so much. They are ready now and have very few cons.
I'm not a big fan of Vonn Bell, and I think he's a 2nd rd talent. I could see him being taken as a "dark horse" but I agree he has some holes in his game. Same as Artie Burns. He's got good characteristics, but he's weak as hell (7 bench reps) and he's hot and cold. But Dorsey could take him bc he fits the measurables matrix.

Dorsey dominated the draft last year bc he took players with few cons from their play on the field, their measurables and attitude. He didn't draft that way before and look at the difference?

I want to draft a Marcus Peters/Mitch Morse this season, not an Eric Fisher or Dee Ford development prospect.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by RunKC

And we are still waiting for Dee Ford to finally break out. I've said it many times man. I don't want Dee Ford's in the first Rd this anymore. First or second year of a rebuild? Sure. When the team's in win now mode? **** no.

That's why I like Vernon Butler and WJIII so much. They are ready now and have very few cons.
I'm not a big fan of Vonn Bell, and I think he's a 2nd rd talent. I could see him being taken as a "dark horse" but I agree he has some holes in his game. Same as Artie Burns. He's got good characteristics, but he's weak as hell (7 bench reps) and he's hot and cold. But Dorsey could take him bc he fits the measurables matrix.

Dorsey dominated the draft last year bc he took players with few cons from their play on the field, their measurables and attitude. He didn't draft that way before and look at the difference?

I want to draft a Marcus Peters/Mitch Morse this season, not an Eric Fisher or Dee Ford development prospect.

Lol the comparison I made with Dee Ford ends there. It doesn't mean Alexander can't contribute right way. I don't see how you can say he isn't more polished than those two. He's a better cover corner than both those guys right now.

Dorsey didn't change his philosophy. He took the BPA and it just so happened to be two guys that could contribute right away. I don't think Dorsey is going to pass a guy up because he isn't 100% ready day 1. He's not short sighted.

Not every draft pick can come in and contribute right away. Sometimes you have to take the guy that might take a little time because he's simply the better option.

As for Dee Ford, I think he's right where Dorsey expected him to be going into year 3, just like Fisher.

[Urc Burry]

Riddick has Hargreaves falling to Carolina in is new mock, with us taking Ragland. So hopefully Hargreaves

[Meatloaf]

Originally Posted by staylor26

Lol the comparison I made with Dee Ford ends there. It doesn't mean Alexander can't contribute right way. I don't see how you can say he isn't more polished than those two. He's a better cover corner than both those guys right now.

Dorsey didn't change his philosophy. He took the BPA and it just so happened to be two guys that could contribute right away. I don't think Dorsey is going to pass a guy up because he isn't 100% ready day 1. He's not short sighted.

Not every draft pick can come in and contribute right away. Sometimes you have to take the guy that might take a little time because he's simply the better option.

As for Dee Ford, I think he's right where Dorsey expected him to be going into year 3, just like Fisher.

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I'd like to think Dorsey expected more outa Dee Ford. From what I can see, he's added NOTHING to his pass rush repertoire, and although he's not running away from ballcarriers anymore, he's not exactly a tackling machine. As I've said before, I just don't think the guy is dedicated to the game of football -- as I understand it, he's a rather bright kid who has many other interests. Anyway, I'm gonna be real surprised if he turns out to be a solid NFL linebacker....much less a dominant pass rusher.

As per my sleeper, it'd probably be that we draft an Eric Berry replacement. Someone like Sean Davis might fill that bill. Davis IS a tackling machine and from his tape he does kinda remind me of Berry what with his "in the box" play.

Another dark horse might be Noah Spence.....just in case Mr Ford doesn't progress, plus it'd be additional insurance if Houston misses a chunk of the season.

[Meatloaf]

Originally Posted by Urc Burry

Riddick has Hargreaves falling to Carolina in is new mock, with us taking Ragland. So hopefully Hargreaves

I'd take Ragland in a heartbeat. He's about the first Alabama LB I've seen that looks like he knows what he's doing out there!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

So true



I was neutral on Alexander until word began leaking that he was a bad interview.

Say what you want about "smokescreens", medical re-checks, etc. but character assassination is generally something teams avoid leaking, unless it's just unavoidable.

I've always seen the opposite.

There's no sense in running smokescreens on medicals because teams can check for themselves and find out. But if you leak 'bad interview' often enough, maybe you can get a team or two to think he was just having a better day putting you on when you interviewed him.

Medical's don't change - they are what they are. When Jaylon Smith's medicals are getting leaked as terrible, it's because his medicals are terrible and its empirically provable. When you are leaking that guys are coming off standoffish, you can just represent that you asked the right questions and some other team interviewing him didn't.

[Easy 6]

I'm not sold on WJIII, what I'm reading says he isnt overly physical and is more comfortable facing the action... we need guys who can smoothly transition from their backpedal, who can turn and run

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've always seen the opposite.

There's no sense in running smokescreens on medicals because teams can check for themselves and find out. But if you leak 'bad interview' often enough, maybe you can get a team or two to think he was just having a better day putting you on when you interviewed him.

Medical's don't change - they are what they are. When Jaylon Smith's medicals are getting leaked as terrible, it's because his medicals are terrible and its empirically provable.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

When you are leaking that guys are coming off standoffish, you can just represent that you asked the right questions and some other team interviewing him didn't.

I don't recall a time when bad interviews leaked that weren't true. The same thing happened with Geno Smith and look how that turned out.

[O.city]

Who knows where it's coming from. Could be from teams, another corners agent, a team wanting him to drop to them etc.

**** me, let's just have the dam draft. This is crazy

[Chief Northman]

If Ragland falls as some suggest, I still don't think the Chiefs pick him. We have Ramik Wilson, DJ Alexander, Justin March and Josh Mauga vying for a spot beside DJ. Ragland would just be a luxury at that point albeit the talent level would be raised.

[Chief Northman]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

I'm not sold on WJIII, what I'm reading says he isnt overly physical and is more comfortable facing the action... we need guys who can smoothly transition from their backpedal, who can turn and run

My take on the three corners most associated with our projected pick at 28:

Pros
Alexander - best cover skills and "shutdown" ability
Apple - best tackler of the three, very technically sound and saavy
Jackson III - phenomenal athlete, great ball skills and outstanding recovery speed/ positioning, game changing ability

Cons
Alexander - Attitude and classroom concerns, confident or cocky?, questionable ball skills, size concerns, benefitted from suppoting cast?
Apple - draws flags for physicality in press, takes poor angles in run defend, benefitted from supporting cast?
Jackson III - experience and lesser competition faced. Risk taker who can get beat. Not overly physical.

If corner is indeed the pick and all three were available, I go with WJ III for his game breaking ability, ball skills and athleticism.

[kccrow]

Add this for Alexander under cons: benefited from raping receivers 15 yards down field frequently which will draw a plethora flags in the NFL.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Add this for Alexander under cons: benefited from raping receivers 15 yards down field frequently which will draw a plethora flags in the NFL.

That's bullshit. Your entire assessment of Alexander is so strange. You also said he would fit best in a zone scheme.

Then again, you also said Hargreaves was overratted, so maybe you have a bias against guys on the smaller side. Or maybe you just suck at evaluating CB's.

At least RunKC's issues with Alexander are the normal complaints.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Add this for Alexander under cons: benefited from raping receivers 15 yards down field frequently which will draw a plethora flags in the NFL.

You sure we're not talking about Peters again? Or Smith, for that matter? Smith absolutely physically mauled guys - it was his calling card.

Unless you're just blatant (and frankly, stupid) about it, you'll be fine. Don't be Brandon Browner.

Any press-man system is going to have its fair share of PI flags; they're a cost of doing business. I don't see Alexander being significantly more prone to them than any CB we'd want in this system. The system needs physical DBs, if you aren't willing to get into a WRs body, you're probably going to fail in this system anyway.