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Old 07-31-2014, 01:23 PM  
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***Official 2014 STL Cardinals thread part II***
Original thread was getting to large for the board

2011 WS Championship
2012 one win from another WS
2013 two wins from another WS title
2014 Central Division title and NLCS series win (so far)

This is a franchise that has made the postseason 10 times in the last 14 seasons.

Only 1 losing season since 2000.

Reached the World Series 4 times since 2004 and won as many championships (two) the past eight seasons as it did from 1965 to 2005.

Our new Manager has more post season experience than any other manager in baseball, except the Giants manager.

Made the NLCS 8 times

Three million attendance? Take it to the bank.

60 post season wins since 2004. 20+ wins more than any other team.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:05 PM   #3901
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Molina and Holliday have been those types of hitters (and probably still have a few more years left), but they're aging. Oscar Taveras was supposed to be that next superstar guy. Heyward replaces that potential, though at a much higher cost.
I think our window is closing on this "golden" era. Figuring we have 2 years left in this window. After that, Waino, Molina, Holliday, Peralta are on backside of their careers and or done. We can't replace that kind of production in 2 years.

Now, I don't ever see us becoming bottom feeders as long as Mo and the draft and develop philosophy is in place. You get to the playoffs, you never know what will happen. It will have been a fantastic 12 year run. But, all good things must end at some point.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:09 PM   #3902
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You can't bemoan that in baseball when you get a really productive player anyway. Shelby Miller was a damned good draft pick..
Yeah, it was a good pick. He fell to us in the 20's because most thought he would go play college ball and not sign a professional contract.

20+ teams passed on Trout. Don't know why he was misjudged but it wasn't just a Cardinals issue. 300 players picked before Pujols selected moment in draft lore.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #3903
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Yeah, it was a good pick. He fell to us in the 20's because most thought he would go play college ball and not sign a professional contract.

20+ teams passed on Trout. Don't know why he was misjudged but it wasn't just a Cardinals issue. 300 players picked before Pujols selected moment in draft lore.
Trout was misjudged because he was from the New England area, didn't play year-round, hadn't faced a lot of elite pitching, and just didn't have the same level of reps. He was a great athlete with 5-tool potential but was considered extremely raw.

He was basically the same package coming out of HS as Bubba Starling, except 2 years younger.
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Old 11-17-2014, 03:25 PM   #3904
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I think our window is closing on this "golden" era. Figuring we have 2 years left in this window. After that, Waino, Molina, Holliday, Peralta are on backside of their careers and or done. We can't replace that kind of production in 2 years.

Now, I don't ever see us becoming bottom feeders as long as Mo and the draft and develop philosophy is in place. You get to the playoffs, you never know what will happen. It will have been a fantastic 12 year run. But, all good things must end at some point.
The Cardinals have a lot of good, young, complementary type guys (Carpenter, Wong, Piscotty, Jay, Adams) around/on the way in the everyday lineup and enough great young pitching potential to feel great about that moving forward (with Lynn, Wacha, Martinez, Gonzales, etc).

They just need the centerpiece/superstar to fit into the middle of it.

Heyward has the potential to be that guy, I think. If he breaks out offensively in St. Louis this year, it might just extend that Golden Age you're talking about.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:13 PM   #3905
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Trout was misjudged because he was from the New England area, didn't play year-round, hadn't faced a lot of elite pitching, and just didn't have the same level of reps. He was a great athlete with 5-tool potential but was considered extremely raw.

He was basically the same package coming out of HS as Bubba Starling, except 2 years younger.
I don't think Bubba's scouting report ever said, "Best player on the planet," as an Angels report did for Trout.

You're right about his drop, though.

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Old 11-17-2014, 04:18 PM   #3906
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FWIW, I'm going to toss out one last nugget:

The guy who just signed the $325 million extension is only three months younger than the guy we just traded Shelby Miller for.

He's also has two years above 3.2 WAR. Heyward has four.
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Old 11-17-2014, 04:31 PM   #3907
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FWIW, I'm going to toss out one last nugget:

The guy who just signed the $325 million extension is only three months younger than the guy we just traded Shelby Miller for.

He's also has two years above 3.2 WAR. Heyward has four.
Yeah, he has had much better luck staying healthy than Stanton. That's an important "skill" to possess.

It's one of the things I love about baseball. So many ways to "win" and find value. Heyward and Stanton are great examples of that.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:18 PM   #3908
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FWIW, I'm going to toss out one last nugget:

The guy who just signed the $325 million extension is only three months younger than the guy we just traded Shelby Miller for.

He's also has two years above 3.2 WAR. Heyward has four.
you and Duncan know WAR way better than my superficial top level comprehension but wasn't Heywards high WAR # mainly due to his defensive prowess?

I can admit that It's going to nice to have an OF that can actually throw out a runner.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:40 PM   #3909
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Yeah, he has had much better luck staying healthy than Stanton. That's an important "skill" to possess.

It's one of the things I love about baseball. So many ways to "win" and find value. Heyward and Stanton are great examples of that.
its hard for me to think of Stanton and Heyward at the same level of worth to a team.

Simply Red has in the past praised Heyward for his good locker room presense, charity work in. The community and the way he treats the fans.

Holliday's contract is up in two years. The Cardinals have worked with Boras successfully in the past. We could give Heyward Hollidays $120 million contract money and not even increase payroll.
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:48 PM   #3910
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That Stanton deal seems nuts... But Miami is stupid.

I texted a buddy who is a braves fan and asked him about Heyward. Said something about "he has forgot how to hit". Personally I am excited about the deal.
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Old 11-17-2014, 06:05 PM   #3911
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you and Duncan know WAR way better than my superficial top level comprehension but wasn't Heywards high WAR # mainly due to his defensive prowess?

I can admit that It's going to nice to have an OF that can actually throw out a runner.
Yes, but he's still an above average offensive player due to his ability to get on base at a .350 clip, hit for decent power, and run the bases at an elite level.

He didn't "Forget how to hit." He just isn't going to hit 40 bombs a year like Atlanta Braves fans assumed/thought.

Not to get lazy, but he and Alex Gordon are really very, very similar player in terms of how much value they add and how they add it.

Gordon is a superstar, even though baseball doesn't realize it, because of how good he is across the board. Heyward is the same way.
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:44 PM   #3912
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That Stanton deal seems nuts... But Miami is stupid.
Its essentially a 6 year deal at 25 million per season. Pretty solid deal.
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:16 PM   #3913
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Its essentially a 6 year deal at 25 million per season. Pretty solid deal.
No its not. He blows out a knee, decides he wants to phone it in now that he got paid or can't physically play baseball ever again, he gets the $325 million. Miami doesn't have an out clause after 6 years.
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:45 PM   #3914
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No its not. He blows out a knee, decides he wants to phone it in now that he got paid or can't physically play baseball ever again, he gets the $325 million. Miami doesn't have an out clause after 6 years.
If any franchise on Earth needs to get ****ed with a decade-plus albatross of a contract it's that ownership group.

I hope that Stanton has a long, productive career, but if he totally craters then I'll smile knowing karma finally slid its meaty cock into Loria's dirtbag ass.
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Old 11-18-2014, 08:38 AM   #3915
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So in terms of Heyward, do you approach him about an extension now or wait?
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