Problem with the bench press metric.

aturnis · 02-23-2014, 08:07 PM

There is obviously a problem with the typical number of reps metric. Is there a simple solution?

I was thinking, would it make sense to measure the distance from a player's chest to a fully extended rep, then multiply number of reps by that distance to get total distance the weight was moved?

Just throwing something out there.

OldSchool · 02-23-2014, 08:12 PM

That test isn't to test their actual strength. It's to see which prospect puts in the time in the weight room to get better. Helps the coaches to distinguish between who slacks off and who is coming in with a great work ethic in terms of physically preparing themselves for the game. The number only really matters if it is alarmingly low. IE, less than 20 reps for OL and DL players is a red flag no matter how long their arms are. Teams look at the numbers and compare it to the tape; is the strength, or lack of strength, reflected on the field?

planetdoc · 02-23-2014, 08:21 PM

pretty much. that being said hali lifted only 18x, and jared aalen 13x. they both turned out ok.

In58men · 02-23-2014, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetdoc

pretty much. that being said hali lifted only 18x, and jared aalen 13x. they both turned out ok.

Is this true?

planetdoc · 02-23-2014, 08:53 PM

Their bench press numbers are listed on their wiki as well as multiple sites such as:

nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=12471&draftyear=2006&genpos=DE
nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58444&draftyear=2004&genpos=DE

As for them turning out "ok", I personally think that is an understatement. They are both multiple year probowlers. Hali has 73.5 sacks and 27 forced fumbles for his career, while Allen has 128.5 career sacks and 29 forced fumbles. I think most would say they are better than "ok", but that is a subjective opinion.

Statistically I could make the case that they are better than average at their respective positions.

Direckshun · 02-23-2014, 08:54 PM

The press is probably the least important Combine exercise there is.

It would honestly make more sense to have everybody do leg presses, with the possible exception of linemen.

I'm not a fan. It's one of those things teams use jut to see how much work they'll need for a given prospect, which is pretty well known before they even sit down on the bench.

Unless a guy totally tanks it, it's one of those things where it's pretty neat if they do well, but I don't care too much if they don't.

jonzie04 · 02-23-2014, 09:18 PM

seems a bit silly to change one of the most basic lifts, and one of the oldest lifts in the history of lifting. a few things that should be done though is the enforcing of a more strict form. I saw a lot of guys hump pressing rather than bench pressing. it doesn't have to be as strict as a pause on the chest but it should be a controlled. touch and go. I honestly thought some of those guys were going to cave their chests in. another thing I would like to see is an increased amount of weight for lineman. it seems a bit silly for 160lb DB to be tested on the same weight as a 350lb offensive lineman. I say let the fatties rep 315. lets see what their raw strength is vs their endurance.

planetdoc · 02-23-2014, 09:26 PM

bench press at 225 is a test of muscular endurance more than strength.
Deadlift/squat would be a better test of strength.

xztop123 · 02-23-2014, 09:46 PM

It probably somewhat hurts the players progress as an athlete since they have to dedicate time to this lift...

More important stuff is like bone size (steelers measure bones) and leg press

OldSchool · 02-23-2014, 10:28 PM

No, if you really wanted to test their strength/power as it relates to football, see how many reps of power cleans/hang cleans they can do with 225 pounds instead of bench. That would be something that I would see as a better measuring tool.

aturnis · 02-23-2014, 11:27 PM

I disagree that it's worthless. Shows a guys endurance in upper body power.

Will he have the arm strength to put space between he and the defender and shed the block or not.

Can he do it well? Can he do it for an entire game?

Jakemall · 02-23-2014, 11:28 PM

Start with 225 and throw on 20# at each rep until they stop.

Sorter · 02-24-2014, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldSchool

No, if you really wanted to test their strength/power as it relates to football, see how many reps of power cleans/hang cleans they can do with 225 pounds instead of bench. That would be something that I would see as a better measuring tool.

Sr. Roberto:

Jakemall · 02-24-2014, 12:51 PM

Here's another thing I'd like to see fixed... All players must perform all timed running drills in full gear (keep it uniform and put them in QB gear).

**RealSNR** · 02-24-2014, 01:55 PM

So Clowney ran a 4.53 40 at 6'5 266 lbs, but only did 21 reps on the bench press.

You're saying no big deal, but I'm sure every team in the top 3-4 picks including the Texans is saying the same thing.

02-23-2014, 08:07 PM
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Problem with the bench press metric. There is obviously a problem with the typical number of reps metric. Is there a simple solution? I was thinking, would it make sense to measure the distance from a player's chest to a fully extended rep, then multiply number of reps by that distance to get total distance the weight was moved? Just throwing something out there.
Posts: 13,873

02-23-2014, 08:12 PM	#2
OldSchool MVP Join Date: Sep 2013 Casino cash: $10035212	That test isn't to test their actual strength. It's to see which prospect puts in the time in the weight room to get better. Helps the coaches to distinguish between who slacks off and who is coming in with a great work ethic in terms of physically preparing themselves for the game. The number only really matters if it is alarmingly low. IE, less than 20 reps for OL and DL players is a red flag no matter how long their arms are. Teams look at the numbers and compare it to the tape; is the strength, or lack of strength, reflected on the field?
Posts: 12,727

02-23-2014, 08:21 PM	#3
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	pretty much. that being said hali lifted only 18x, and jared aalen 13x. they both turned out ok.
Posts: 2,174

02-23-2014, 08:53 PM	#5
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	Their bench press numbers are listed on their wiki as well as multiple sites such as: nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=12471&draftyear=2006&genpos=DE nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58444&draftyear=2004&genpos=DE As for them turning out "ok", I personally think that is an understatement. They are both multiple year probowlers. Hali has 73.5 sacks and 27 forced fumbles for his career, while Allen has 128.5 career sacks and 29 forced fumbles. I think most would say they are better than "ok", but that is a subjective opinion. Statistically I could make the case that they are better than average at their respective positions.
Posts: 2,174

02-23-2014, 08:54 PM	#6
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2113447	The press is probably the least important Combine exercise there is. It would honestly make more sense to have everybody do leg presses, with the possible exception of linemen. I'm not a fan. It's one of those things teams use jut to see how much work they'll need for a given prospect, which is pretty well known before they even sit down on the bench. Unless a guy totally tanks it, it's one of those things where it's pretty neat if they do well, but I don't care too much if they don't.
Posts: 59,688

02-23-2014, 09:18 PM	#7
jonzie04 MVP Join Date: Feb 2014 Casino cash: $5716817	seems a bit silly to change one of the most basic lifts, and one of the oldest lifts in the history of lifting. a few things that should be done though is the enforcing of a more strict form. I saw a lot of guys hump pressing rather than bench pressing. it doesn't have to be as strict as a pause on the chest but it should be a controlled. touch and go. I honestly thought some of those guys were going to cave their chests in. another thing I would like to see is an increased amount of weight for lineman. it seems a bit silly for 160lb DB to be tested on the same weight as a 350lb offensive lineman. I say let the fatties rep 315. lets see what their raw strength is vs their endurance.
Posts: 6,779

02-23-2014, 09:26 PM	#8
planetdoc Veteran Join Date: Apr 2012 Casino cash: $9995865	bench press at 225 is a test of muscular endurance more than strength. Deadlift/squat would be a better test of strength.
Posts: 2,174

02-23-2014, 09:46 PM	#9
xztop123 Veteran Join Date: Apr 2013 Casino cash: $1320609	It probably somewhat hurts the players progress as an athlete since they have to dedicate time to this lift... More important stuff is like bone size (steelers measure bones) and leg press
Posts: 2,100

02-23-2014, 10:28 PM	#10
OldSchool MVP Join Date: Sep 2013 Casino cash: $10035212	No, if you really wanted to test their strength/power as it relates to football, see how many reps of power cleans/hang cleans they can do with 225 pounds instead of bench. That would be something that I would see as a better measuring tool.
Posts: 12,727

02-23-2014, 11:27 PM	#11
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	I disagree that it's worthless. Shows a guys endurance in upper body power. Will he have the arm strength to put space between he and the defender and shed the block or not. Can he do it well? Can he do it for an entire game?
Posts: 13,873

02-23-2014, 11:28 PM	#12
Jakemall Veteran Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Los Angeles Casino cash: $10010313	Start with 225 and throw on 20# at each rep until they stop.
Posts: 2,454

02-24-2014, 12:51 PM	#14
Jakemall Veteran Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Los Angeles Casino cash: $10010313	Here's another thing I'd like to see fixed... All players must perform all timed running drills in full gear (keep it uniform and put them in QB gear).
Posts: 2,454

02-24-2014, 01:55 PM	#15
RealSNR Special Teams ACE!!! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Where the hell is SNR Casino cash: $-1314792	So Clowney ran a 4.53 40 at 6'5 266 lbs, but only did 21 reps on the bench press. You're saying no big deal, but I'm sure every team in the top 3-4 picks including the Texans is saying the same thing.
Posts: 93,281