Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17969247)

Would you argue that they weren't?

I mean Rice went down awfully early. Kelce was...lets just say 'conserving himself' for the sake of diplomacy. Brown was hurt all season and Worthy was a rookie who really developed nicely but still took time.

And frankly, when Mahomes DID go deep to him, he missed. Sometimes due to PM, sometimes due to Worthy. But it wasn't working so they shelved it while trying to find other ways to involve him.

I mean for 1/3 of the season or so we were running Justin Watson out there as our WR2 with Worthy at WR1.

So...I mean...yeah, I think it's fair to say our weapons were pretty piss poor.

If it's NOT weapons, is it your assertion that Reid just hates throwing it downfield now? Guy's been building passing offenses for 25 years now and since he finally has one of the best to ever do it he's decided "eh, **** it - just throw slants..." for poops and grins?

In literal decades of Andy Reid as an NFL head coach, what has given you the impression that if he COULD push the ball all over the field, he wouldn't?

I mean what's your alternative to "Our pass catchers weren't very good..." because whatever it may be, it's gonna be harder to support than "our pass catchers weren't very good"

They very clearly were not.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17969252)

It was a combination of weapons, LT play, and Pat just not playing up to his standard.

But the weapons absolutely had a lot to do with it. You take any teams WR1 AND WR2 that early in the season, and they're going to have problems.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17969257)

And they can say whatever they want, I think the Chiefs were probably surprised by how little Kelce had left in the tank.

I know they weren't exactly leaning into him much early on, but I think they always kinda thought they could. And then when the bullets started flying and he was really struggling to raise his level of play, that knocked ANOTHER leg out from under PM's stool.

The burst was waning a bit in 2023 but you still saw it. What I noticed with Kelce was mostly that he moved in straight lines more than he had in years past. And got tired more often. But there was still burst there.

This year it was just never there at all.

They had to build the plane while they were flying it and it just never had the engines to go supersonic. I don't really know how that's at all difficult for some people to grasp.

Did they not WATCH this season?

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 17969256)

If the argument was it was because of Rice, after the Baltimore season opener, the next two games WITH Rice Mahomes YPA was 6 against the Bengals then dropped below 6 against the Falcons.

I don't think it's any one thing. Probably weapons, OL.

But coaching too has to reviewed. The offense they have chosen, even when they have lesser opponents is one of the lowest attack yards in the league.

Originally Posted by pugsnotdrugs19 (Post 17969238)

If I’m being too simplistic feel free to call me out on it, I just think it’s as simple as this guys

If the Chiefs crush the draft this year, they’ll be winning the Super Bowl again next February. If they don’t, they won’t.

LT, no LT, whatever they do there I think will be good enough. But if they add another 3-4 really quality pieces in the draft that start, and let’s say two at least that have a major positive impact, they won’t be caught.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17969262)

Downfield passing concepts, schematically, are about as easy as it gets.

There's nothing new under the sun with them. You need space, time and speed. They're pretty easy to put together because you have a lot of room to work with down the field and fewer bodies to navigate. The ball's in the air longer allowing for more adjustments by pass catchers. The timing doesn't have to be as precise because there's too much that happens in the route for those to really be strict timing routes.

Downfield passing is pretty basic shit if you have the manpower to do it.
They didn't FORGET how to draw up those concepts. There's a reason they weren't using them.

I don't think it's because they wanted to neuter Mahomes. I don't think it's because, after years of believing otherwise, they decided that spreading teams out and attacking all areas of the field was now stupid. It's pretty much been fundamental to how Andy has done things his entire career -- attack EVERY blade of grass, laterally AND horizontally.

Personnel issues make all the sense in the world. And, again, Patrick. He's going to have a bigger influence over whether the ball goes down the field than the coaching staff would. They're never gonna call All-Verts and just not give him underneath options. If the reason the ball wasn't going downfield is that PM wouldn't throw it - that's NOT on the coaching staff, that's on the QB.

WR, LT and QB are all culprits I'd be looking at w/r/t the downfield passing game before I'd look at coaching. Because again, there's just nothing remotely complicated about drawing up a downfield passing attack. Executing it is where the problems come in and execution is going to be personnel 9 times out of 10.

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17969260)

Hopkins too. I don't know how much they thought he had left in the tank, but it had to be more than we got. You would think everybody talking about how slow the offense was outside of Worthy would make it easy to make the connection.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17969257)

And they can say whatever they want, I think the Chiefs were probably surprised by how little Kelce had left in the tank.

I know they weren't exactly leaning into him much early on, but I think they always kinda thought they could. And then when the bullets started flying and he was really struggling to raise his level of play, that knocked ANOTHER leg out from under PM's stool.

The burst was waning a bit in 2023 but you still saw it. What I noticed with Kelce was mostly that he moved in straight lines more than he had in years past. And got tired more often. But there was still burst there.

This year it was just never there at all.

They had to build the plane while they were flying it and it just never had the engines to go supersonic. I don't really know how that's at all difficult for some people to grasp.

Did they not WATCH this season?

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 17969266)

Where did I say it was complicated?

You say they want to attack but the numbers don't bear that out.


This can't be all weapons as I demonstrated with Rice and Worthy and Kelce on the field they were throwing for 6 YPA or less right after the season opener.

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17969270)

I don't know what the hell happened to Hopkins. He looked fine for a little bit then got to the point he was barely even playing. Wondering if that knee injury got reaggravated.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17969281)

It's not ALL any one thing. It's several things piled together and you do the best you can. I really don't understand why people don't get it.

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17969290)

Even with the problems we had, you can’t make your team one dimensional. The Eagles didn’t even care to defend the run and simply pinned their ears back which just exacerbate s the struggling QB and OL.

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic (Post 17969289)

Teams took away the verticals in 2021.

Reid came back with a strong 2022 using MVS as mostly a decoy with an offense that would go through Kelce, JuJu, and the backs.

It worked quite well as teams still played us as the Super Chiefs and we ate up the shell coverages.


Problem is we haven't done anything great since.

In 2023 teams started to walk up as they saw how terrible the weapons were. And now the easy short gains weren't so easy.


Since 2023 we look like a stale version of 2022. Dink and dunk offense that isn't that effective as teams realized we aren't actually explosive or dangerous.