Chiefs ****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread**** - Page 98

Sofa King · 09-07-2023, 09:08 PM

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-18-2023, 11:11 AM

Couple of things:

First, mea culpa for my brain thinking one thing but not being able to present it properly - looking back it makes all the sense in the world why some of you were getting in my ass last night.

There's nothing wrong with Andy's "scheme" - he's a ****ing offensive genius, and his offensive mind is not what I was meaning to question last night.

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how to put it, so I'll just ask the question:

Why is it so difficult to produce as a young WR in Andy's offense and it's not for others across the league who have shown success? We've seen McVay's offense be pretty damn successful - and they are pulling guys out of the late rounds putting up more numbers in two games than Skyy Moore has in 20+. You're telling me McVay's offense is so much easier to learn that a 5th round pick can immediately come in and ball the **** out, while our 2nd round pick with more talent is getting 12 snaps a game?

It seems like pisspoor planning to rebuild the WR room while a SB window is open knowing that it typically takes years for young WR's top perform in Andy's offense.

I posted this in the spring and didn't hear much argument about it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Growing your own is fine - but the entire WR room at once while a SB window is open?

Right now you're looking at Toney - assuming he can stay healthy - and a WHOLE LOT of question marks.

Or, if you want to be a pessimist, you can assume Toney won't be able to stay healthy (he hasn't once in his career) and you have NOTHING but question marks.

They need some sort of a presence besides Kelce - MVS ain't it.

Sure enough, guess who's been hurt twice already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

I trust Veach as well - but expecting a guy that's never stayed healthy to stay healthy, and expecting a guy that did next to nothing in his rookie year have a massive breakout - it's a risk I'd rather they not take and potentially waste a prime Mahomes season.

This isn't even as much about Hopkins as it is the position in general - they need *someone* they can not only count on, but that will take some attention away from Kelce in that room - and I'm sorry - but we're going to have to be insanely lucky for it to be someone currently on the roster.

I'm glad they're addressing the position in the draft, but knowing that you're not getting much out of them for the first couple of years? We can't possibly be surprised that the offense is struggling, we're depending on MVS and Watson for ****s sake. I can't believe we didn't bother bringing in "an adult in the room" as Twisted put it to stabilize things while these guys develop. If you're not gonna do that, then play the ****ing kids and take your lumps, instead of taking your lumps with MVS and Watson and slowing the development of your youngsters.

Rice was sold to us as DeAndre Hopkins Jr. ****ing treat him like it then - dude ain't gonna get better playing 12 snaps a game behind Watson and MVS. Now isn't the time to slowroll his development.

**dirk digler** · 09-18-2023, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Couple of things:

First, mea culpa for my brain thinking one thing but not being able to present it properly - looking back it makes all the sense in the world why some of you were getting in my ass last night.

There's nothing wrong with Andy's "scheme" - he's a ****ing offensive genius, and his offensive mind is not what I was meaning to question last night.

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how to put it, so I'll just ask the question:

Why is it so difficult to produce as a young WR in Andy's offense and it's not for others across the league who have shown success? We've seen McVay's offense be pretty damn successful - and they are pulling guys out of the late rounds putting up more numbers in two games than Skyy Moore has in 20+.

It seems like pisspoor planning to rebuild the WR room while a SB window is open knowing that it typically takes years for young WR's top perform in Andy's offense.

I posted this in the spring and didn't hear much argument about it:

I'm glad they're addressing the position in the draft, but knowing that you're not getting much out of them for the first couple of years? We can't possibly be surprised that the offense is struggling, we're depending on MVS and Watson for ****s sake. I can't believe we didn't bother bringing in "an adult in the room" as Twisted put it to stabilize things while these guys develop. If you're not gonna do that, then play the ****ing kids.

Rice was sold to us as DeAndre Hopkins Jr. ****ing treat him like it then - dude ain't gonna get better playing 12 snaps a game behind Watson and MVS. Now isn't the time to slowroll his development.

Veach will explain it better than anyone here could.

Brett Veach from August 30th on the young wide receivers. https://t.co/hit0OIc0a0 pic.twitter.com/fxEhngZLbL
— Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) September 18, 2023

**lewdog** · 09-18-2023, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26

I will say it again, I can't believe we're sitting here with Mahomes and what looks like a legitimate top 5 defense, and people are shitting their pants because our young WRs are having some growing pains.

I don't think I've ever been this confident in a Mahomes team.

Mahomes and an elite defense is a ****ing cheat code. What a bunch of ****ing pussies some of you are.

This is me.

You are me.

We’re still going to win and win a lot.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-18-2023, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Veach will explain it better than anyone here could.

Brett Veach from August 30th on the young wide receivers. https://t.co/hit0OIc0a0 pic.twitter.com/fxEhngZLbL
— Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) September 18, 2023

Can't watch at work - break it down for me.

O.city · 09-18-2023, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC

I agree to not use a 1st on a guy like Kincaid, who seems to be a better version of Noah Gray but still not anywhere in the same stratosphere as Kelce.

The Chiefs do need another TE though and I think that needs to be a priority. In fact I think RB and TE is needed bc McKinnon and Kelce are old and closer to uncertainties at this point.

We're not oblivious to the fact that we need a LT, but I do think that Donovan Smith is serviceable as a fall back option.

I think we all agree on the bottom line here: Clyde sucks, McKinnon is old and we need a rotation around RB, as we do with TE bc Kelce is 35 next year with Gray being in a contract year (we won't keep him).

I think bulking those positions with quality is needed. IMO a 2nd rd TE would fit nicely

One of these things is not like the others though.

TE and RB? Sure, grab some 3rd round guys or UDFA's and go from there

LT? That one gonna require some doin.

O.city · 09-18-2023, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Can't watch at work - break it down for me.

THey've got packages for them early, as they develop they'll go from package guys to every down guys.

O.city · 09-18-2023, 11:23 AM

I don't get the way he does with young WR's but it's a "he knows more than me" thing I just chalk it up to.

Guys get better by playing. You only learn so much watching.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-18-2023, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The offense over the last 5 years has been the best in the game.

The defense has spent a good part of those last 5 years being a tire fire.

Where would YOU have us allocating the largest chunk of our draft capital, ace?

We clearly needed to fix the D. It appears we have largely done so. In the process we've seen some misfires on offense that will almost certainly sort themselves out by the end of the season and we'll STILL have a top 5 scoring unit. And if that's not the case, the amount of capital we've put into the D over the last several seasons will allow us to address the O this coming offseason.

This is how it works when you have limited capital. You attack areas that need to be attacked and then as the disparity between offense/defense starts to level off, you can be more even in how you approach the two.

Pretending like we should've thrown as much capital in the draft at the league's top ranked offense as we do one of it's worst ranked defenses is kinda silly...

And that has been acknowledged plenty. Yeah we had to fix our defense. But you’re also recognizing that in doing so we had to short shrift fixing the offense which goes against saying we’ve been throwing lots of resources at the offense.

Now… I would be good with top 10 defense vs top 3-5 if it meant more stacking the offense. And I disagree that being great meant we should have largely ignored positions like OT and WR for years (we should have at least looked at lots of value ideas the minute we signed Sammy Watkins). But whatever. Can’t get mad at the results and if this defense now allows us to pivot to offense in coming years, great. I’m cool with that. if this is the year to see how many young WRs we can build a base around… great. But that is different from saying this is aggressive or that the main hurdle is just to find jujus replacement equivalent.

**dirk digler** · 09-18-2023, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Can't watch at work - break it down for me.

Super Complicated, so many tweaks to routes and aligments and so much verbiage in the playbook that it takes young WR's awhile to get going. So they give the young WR's specific packages to get them going and over the course the season move from doing specific packages to every down WR's.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-18-2023, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

THey've got packages for them early, as they develop they'll go from package guys to every down guys.

So as I mentioned, "scheme" was the wrong word to use.

Maybe "mindset" is the right one.

They have the mindset that they have to ease young WR's in. I'd love to know why that is the case here and not in other organizations.

I keep using Nacua as a comp, for obvious reasons. McVay's offense is complicated too. You're telling me he's more talented than Rashee Rice?

I don't buy it. Give the kid more than 12 snaps a game and let him show you why you took him in R2.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-18-2023, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't get the way he does with young WR's but it's a "he knows more than me" thing I just chalk it up to.

Guys get better by playing. You only learn so much watching.

Bingo.

O.city · 09-18-2023, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

So as I mentioned, "scheme" was the wrong word to use.

Maybe "mindset" is the right one.

They have the mindset that they have to ease young WR's in. I'd love to know why that is the case here and not in other organizations.

I keep using Nacua as a comp, for obvious reasons. McVay's offense is complicated too. You're telling me he's more talented than Rashee Rice?

I don't buy it. Give the kid more than 12 snaps a game and let him show you why you took him in R2.

Well....as has been said, he will. It's been 2 weeks.

MahomesMagic · 09-18-2023, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15

Couple of things:

First, mea culpa for my brain thinking one thing but not being able to present it properly - looking back it makes all the sense in the world why some of you were getting in my ass last night.

There's nothing wrong with Andy's "scheme" - he's a ****ing offensive genius, and his offensive mind is not what I was meaning to question last night.

Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out how to put it, so I'll just ask the question:

Why is it so difficult to produce as a young WR in Andy's offense and it's not for others across the league who have shown success? We've seen McVay's offense be pretty damn successful - and they are pulling guys out of the late rounds putting up more numbers in two games than Skyy Moore has in 20+. You're telling me McVay's offense is so much easier to learn that a 5th round pick can immediately come in and ball the **** out, while our 2nd round pick with more talent is getting 12 snaps a game?

It seems like pisspoor planning to rebuild the WR room while a SB window is open knowing that it typically takes years for young WR's top perform in Andy's offense.

I posted this in the spring and didn't hear much argument about it:

Sure enough, guess who's been hurt twice already?

I'm glad they're addressing the position in the draft, but knowing that you're not getting much out of them for the first couple of years? We can't possibly be surprised that the offense is struggling, we're depending on MVS and Watson for ****s sake. I can't believe we didn't bother bringing in "an adult in the room" as Twisted put it to stabilize things while these guys develop. If you're not gonna do that, then play the ****ing kids and take your lumps, instead of taking your lumps with MVS and Watson and slowing the development of your youngsters.

Rice was sold to us as DeAndre Hopkins Jr. ****ing treat him like it then - dude ain't gonna get better playing 12 snaps a game behind Watson and MVS. Now isn't the time to slowroll his development.

Its not coaching.

Puka is just a better WR than Skyy Moore

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-18-2023, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Super Complicated, so many tweaks to routes and aligments and so much verbiage in the playbook that it takes young WR's awhile to get going. So they give the young WR's specific packages to get them going and over the course the season move from doing specific packages to every down WR's.

Yep, Andy has the only complicated playbook in the league.

I'm sure McVay's is just color by number which allows a 5th round rookie to go bonkers.

chiefzilla1501 · 09-18-2023, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Same as the Chris Jones debate.

You don't replace guys that are playing at a HoF level. You simply go get quality players wherever you can and adjust accordingly.

And as has been noted, Reid can make a viable TE from some pretty spare parts. I mean a guy like Engram would be a multiple time Pro Bowler here, IMO.

Irv Smith is likely to be a FA again this off-season and is 25 yrs old - you get him signed to a 3 year deal and you'll be just fine as you need to throttle TK back a bit or have him go in shorter bursts.

Then if a toolsy guy like Whyle or Tucker Kraft falls into 'bargain' range in the 3rd/4th round - okay, start taking some swings here and there.

But "OHMIGOD WE HAVE TO REPLACE KELCE SO DRAFT DALTON KINCAID!!!!" just doesn't make sense to me.

Kincaid won't be Kelce. He won't be close to Kelce. He may be good, but he ain't gonna be 'set every record there is to set' good. So don't waste your time trying to replace a guy you aren't going to be able to replace.

But that’s the thing. At positions like TE or WR, these are positions where the #2 can always be on the field. It’s actually ideal because you can develop them while being patient at the same time. It’s why many teams have been stockpiling WRs for years. It’s why I want to get ahead of these things instead of waiting to fix an entire unit in one offseason.

With as much as we love 12 and 13 personnel an extra TE isn’t a bad way to go

09-07-2023, 09:08 PM
Sofa King Bump it Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: South Dakota Casino cash: $-200000 VARSITY	**Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread** They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.
Posts: 23,455

09-18-2023, 11:23 AM	#1462
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-525936	I don't get the way he does with young WR's but it's a "he knows more than me" thing I just chalk it up to. Guys get better by playing. You only learn so much watching.
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