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Old 04-28-2022, 09:16 PM  
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:05 AM   #1366
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Yeah, there needs to be an exception for when the defender has established his space. Watson didn't do anything to further impede Adams - he simply held the space he'd clearly established and Adams treated him like he thought he was a camera guy...
Exactly.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:06 AM   #1367
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That's going to vary from play to play.

Question for you though. Why is it DPI if the DB doesn't get his head turned? In what universe is that some catch all? As long as he doesn't shove the WR away from the ball or impeded him from coming back....what does it matter?

Carr underthrew the ball and that catch would have been hard as **** for Adams if Watson wasn't there. It's a stupid ****ing call.
The inference drawn is that if a DB doesn't turn his head, he's not attempting to play the ball but rather body the receiver.

The problem, as you noted, is that it's become a catch-all. And that's simply not the case in all instances and wasn't the case here. Watson wouldn't have done anything differently had he turned his head - he couldn't have with Adams in full stride. He was exactly where he should've been to defend that pass.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:07 AM   #1368
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Yeah, there needs to be an exception for when the defender has established his space. Watson didn't do anything to further impede Adams - he simply held the space he'd clearly established and Adams treated him like he thought he was a camera guy...
Carr and Brady are the two best QBs at just chucking up balls for the sole purpose of getting a DPI called. And there's nothing that the DB can do. It's ****ing bullshit.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:08 AM   #1369
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Have we established yet that the misdemeanor assault charges filed against Adams weren't actually as a result of this play? Because that was more savage than anything Chris Jones did on Sunday...
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:08 AM   #1370
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Carr and Brady are the two best QBs at just chucking up balls for the sole purpose of getting a DPI called. And there's nothing that the DB can do. It's ****ing bullshit.
Mark Sanchez made an art form of it.

That year they went to the AFCCG, I swear it was in the playbook.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:12 AM   #1371
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
The inference drawn is that if a DB doesn't turn his head, he's not attempting to play the ball but rather body the receiver.

The problem, as you noted, is that it's become a catch-all. And that's simply not the case in all instances and wasn't the case here. Watson wouldn't have done anything differently had he turned his head - he couldn't have with Adams in full stride. He was exactly where he should've been to defend that pass.
Too many times you see the same amount of contact with no call as long as the head is turned.

I dont' have an answer here. It's a bad rule.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:13 AM   #1372
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Originally Posted by htismaqe View Post
Yep.

For all of the talk about pressures and win rates (Karlaftis is plus in both categories), Dunlap is currently one of the worst in the league.

via GIPHY
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:18 AM   #1373
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Too many times you see the same amount of contact with no call as long as the head is turned.

I dont' have an answer here. It's a bad rule.
It's similar to what folks say about holding calls.

"Keep your hands inside the pads and it's not a penalty..."

The **** it isn't - a hold is a hold. But it's considered an acceptable hold if you're inside their pads.

It kinda gets back to the fact that this game just moves too fast for some of these calls. So officials, rather than get it right, look for certain keys. If an O-Lineman has his hands outside the pads and turns a defenders shoulders, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a defender makes contact with a receiver and didn't turn his head, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a WR fully extends his arms before separation to make a catch, that's probably gonna be an OPI (but not if he just gives a quick chuck that could create even more separation). If a DB gets his hands above a WRs waist when he's running alongside him, look for illegal contact, even though below the waist can be just as disruptive, it won't be called.

And there's more if you think about it. If a WR's head snaps forward on contact, that's gonna be an unnecessary roughness even if there was no contact to the head. These refs use shorthands and proxies to make up for the fact that they can't actually see what's happening in real time.

It's irritating as hell. Those shorthands are right far more often than they're wrong, but that doesn't mean they aren't wrong often enough to meaningfully impact outcomes.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:20 AM   #1374
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Yep.

For all of the talk about pressures and win rates (Karlaftis is plus in both categories), Dunlap is currently one of the worst in the league.
I said it in the Dunlap thread - he was never a viable replacement for Quinn. Because even last season when he had solid production, his win rates were below average. I think I noted he was closer to Clark than league average.

Dunlap is a guy who gets some sacks, but he doesn't consistently impact plays positively. He's a pure rotational player at this point in his career and will likely see most of his production be either matchup dependent or possibly coverage sacks.

He's not a difference maker and never should have been considered as such.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:22 AM   #1375
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It's similar to what folks say about holding calls.

"Keep your hands inside the pads and it's not a penalty..."

The **** it isn't - a hold is a hold. But it's considered an acceptable hold if you're inside their pads.

It kinda gets back to the fact that this game just moves too fast for some of these calls. So officials, rather than get it right, look for certain keys. If an O-Lineman has his hands outside the pads and turns a defenders shoulders, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a defender makes contact with a receiver and didn't turn his head, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a WR fully extends his arms before separation to make a catch, that's probably gonna be an OPI (but not if he just gives a quick chuck that could create even more separation). If a DB gets his hands above a WRs waist when he's running alongside him, look for illegal contact, even though below the waist can be just as disruptive, it won't be called.

And there's more if you think about it. If a WR's head snaps forward on contact, that's gonna be an unnecessary roughness even if there was no contact to the head. These refs use shorthands and proxies to make up for the fact that they can't actually see what's happening in real time.

It's irritating as hell. Those shorthands are right far more often than they're wrong, but that doesn't mean they aren't wrong often enough to meaningfully impact outcomes.
It's just hard as shit to do man. I've watched and listened to dad talk about it for my whole life, this is his 46th year being a white hat on a high school football crew. It's easier at that level obviously, but still, there's so many gray areas.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:25 AM   #1376
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I said it in the Dunlap thread - he was never a viable replacement for Quinn. Because even last season when he had solid production, his win rates were below average. I think I noted he was closer to Clark than league average.

Dunlap is a guy who gets some sacks, but he doesn't consistently impact plays positively. He's a pure rotational player at this point in his career and will likely see most of his production be either matchup dependent or possibly coverage sacks.

He's not a difference maker and never should have been considered as such.
You guys know what has to be done. I know it's hard, I can help coach you thru the transition. It's ok.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:25 AM   #1377
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You guys know what has to be done. I know it's hard, I can help coach you thru the transition. It's ok.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:28 AM   #1378
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
It's similar to what folks say about holding calls.

"Keep your hands inside the pads and it's not a penalty..."

The **** it isn't - a hold is a hold. But it's considered an acceptable hold if you're inside their pads.

It kinda gets back to the fact that this game just moves too fast for some of these calls. So officials, rather than get it right, look for certain keys. If an O-Lineman has his hands outside the pads and turns a defenders shoulders, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a defender makes contact with a receiver and didn't turn his head, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a WR fully extends his arms before separation to make a catch, that's probably gonna be an OPI (but not if he just gives a quick chuck that could create even more separation). If a DB gets his hands above a WRs waist when he's running alongside him, look for illegal contact, even though below the waist can be just as disruptive, it won't be called.

And there's more if you think about it. If a WR's head snaps forward on contact, that's gonna be an unnecessary roughness even if there was no contact to the head. These refs use shorthands and proxies to make up for the fact that they can't actually see what's happening in real time.

It's irritating as hell. Those shorthands are right far more often than they're wrong, but that doesn't mean they aren't wrong often enough to meaningfully impact outcomes.
Yet they miss shit like Juju getting his hand held down by the Raiders defender. Somehow it’s okay to make the WR only have one hand as long as your head is turned around.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:29 AM   #1379
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We'll get there. It's a process.
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Old 10-12-2022, 10:31 AM   #1380
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You guys know what has to be done. I know it's hard, I can help coach you thru the transition. It's ok.
Where are we going to find a time machine to go back and draft Sam Williams?

Man he looked good against LA last week. Limited reps but impactful every time he was out there.
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