Chiefs This team will 1000x better without Todd Haley - Page 9

CoMoChief · 08-08-2012, 10:49 PM

I truly believe that. I also believe that when players like/respect a coach, they tend to play very hard for them.

I think more so in football than any pro sport, the head coach on a football has to have the ability to lead, to direct, to drive the ship etc. Romeo Crennel, a lot like DV, will let his coaches coach. I seriously doubt Haley was that way. He was a control maniac on offense.

For ****s sake he Fired the OC just weeks before the regular season. I mean you just have to sit back and ask yourself what kind of person does Haley have to be to make a silly, borderline insane decision like that? Everything they've worked on in the summer at TC, they're just going to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch for Week1? Haley's was an insane control freak. What do you think the players thought about that? I mean that would be like working on a huge project for weeks for a huge potential client or something at work and the project due date is only a couple days away and your project mngr comes in and just shoves everything off of the table and says "let's do this instead". If shit like that pisses you off how do you think the players felt? This is the part where the HC has to be competent enough to be able to drive the ship. Have consistency in the locker rooms, film rooms, being on the same page etc.

He couldn't handle having someone else coach the offense. HE had to do it, because he thinks the Arizona Cardinals got to the SB because of him. The passing game under his era didn't do ****ing dick in Kansas City and as much as I can't stand the fact that Cassel is our QB and wish for something better, I also can't sit here and say that it's entirely his fault. Haley didn't think much of Cassel. The proof was there in his face on the sidelines. Haley's father even talked about how he thought Cassel was just average at best and it would be a safe bet to assume that Todd Haley and Dick Haley have had conversations about that. You tend to adopt what your parents believe and Todd's father was his door into the NFL world. If Dick thought Cassel was average wouldn't you think Todd thought that as well?

We all know that Matt Cassel was a Pioli decision and Haley was forced fed Cassel. What else is Haley going to do? Quit? It's his first NFL head coaching gig, he was a ****ing hand puppet. Haley probably had little to no faith in Cassel from the get go and combine that with Haley's temper you get a horrible coaching environment. Combine that with the whole Chan Gailey situation, Larry Johnson, horrible Oline and WR talent or lack thereof and well you have a complete cluster**** mess on offense. The only thing good at all that season was Jamaal Charles.

In 2010 when Charlie Weis came to KC, the offense became much better. Another Pioli move, Weis was a proven name, a OC players could respect We ran the ball like hell and Cassel didn't turn over the ball. He wasn't great by any means, and the true fans love the get off to his TD/INT ratio, but that didn't tell the entire story on Cassel's season that year. He still threw shitty underthrown high school girl passes, had shitty completion%, barley threw for 3,000 yards and his yards per completion was just sub average at best (ranked 18th in NFL). Over half of his TD's were to Bowe. We are all aware of Cassel's inability to read defenses and progress through his WR options. He locks on for too long, holds onto the ball for too long and gets sacked a lot. Cassel loves getting sacked, in fact he's good at doing it. Here's where he's ranked in the NFL:

2008: 1st
2009: 4th
2010: 18th (not bad, but not great either. And then you have to consider how much we ran the ball).
2011: 5th (projected)
- Cassel played in 9 games and was sacked 22 times, averaging 2.4 sacks a game. Over a 16-game period that gives a total of 39.1 (or 39) sacks for a full season, which would have ranked Cassel 5th in the NFL.

But the most important thing about Cassel that season was that he rarely turned the ball over, which was huge and a reason why we won 10 games that year. If you win the turnover battle you win games, it's as simple as that. With a proven OC it at least gave Cassel a better coaching environment to work within. Give him a couple receiving options and a strong running game and you can have success in this league with a good defense on the other side creating turnovers and scores. It's been done before. It's not what I'd prefer. I'd prefer to have an elite QB for 10yrs and consistently be a playoff contender and SB threat like the Colts, Patriots and now Giants and Packers. This is now a QB-driven league. When you want to win the Matt Cassel game manager's way, you need more pieces to fall in place and you need to have a little more luck. Elite QB's make other players around them better. Matt Cassel has to have the players around him, make him better. Elite QB's are the ones that thrive while under pressure and have the ability to lead drives to TD's, put points on the board when needed to win games. Cassel can't do that. You could count the number of times he's single handedly drove the offense down field, coming from behind to set up for a winning score (TD or FG) and still have enough fingers to smoke a j.

We were seeing some success on offense thanks to the help of the shitty division that is the NFCWest. But when it came down to playoff time Haley had to intervene once again with his egotistical and maniac behavior and strip another highly regarded OC from his playcalling duties. This time it was during the Chiefs first home playoff games since 2003. The game wasn't a 24-7 halftime blowout, it was ****ing 10-7 and we were 100% in the game. Weis would then move on to the Univ. of Florida for the same position, stating that it was family reasons were the reason for the departure. Now, being that he's now moved back to the area coaching what has to be one of the worst football factories in the country, do yo honestly believe his statement? I sure as **** don't. He was probably tired of Haley's shit. There were reports during the season and in camp that these guys butted heads and one could see why. Weis and Haley worked together in the same office while w/ the NYJ. Weis went on to the Pats and won Superbowls and became a household name, and then went on to be the HC at one of college football's most prestigious programs, Notre Dame. I don't care what people say there is going to be natural headbutting just because of those 2 ego's and what they've been able to accomplish. It's not weird to assume that Weis probably felt like he was 10000% more qualified for the job than Haley was.

Again you have to ask yourself, why would a NFL coach do something like that? Stripping away playcalling duties from your highly regarded, resume-filled OC during the franchise's biggest playoff game in 7 years at halftime in a close game? The answer is because Todd Haley was (a) way in over his head in being a head coach in the NFL and (b) a Bill Parcels wanna-be egotistical control freak that couldn't handle someone else running the offense. When he was hired he was asked the question who's going to run the offense, and he gave some bullshit cliche' answer with a shit eating grin on his face, the kind of look that a little 9-yr old kid makes when you ask him/her who his school crush is. Then came the Bill Muir era, as Todd Haley needed a puppet of his own. I don't think anyone truly believed Muir was capable of orchestrating an entire offense alone. Haley called the shots, and Muir said **** it and took naps upstairs in the coordinators booth.

Point being this is going to be a much better season offensively for the Chiefs. Daboll isn't exactly great, but I also believe it's the players that make the plays and he has a lot to work with. There's more consistency with the coaching staff, a better environment. The players want to play for their coach which is always good. Haley's temper and attitude is what eventually got the best of him. I don't know what he said to Bowe that ultimately led to him getting canned but what I do know is that it had to be something bad enough to where Bowe would tell his agent about it and for Pioli to tell Haley to knock it off. And when you think about it that's completely acting like an immature goon and it's not acting like a professional NFL head coach or leader... and you don't think other players heard that? I bet that kinda shit went on all the time and there comes a time that it happens too much and players will develop the "tune-out switch". A player will have a hard time respecting a coach if the coach doesn't respect them.

Maybe Haley acts like he does because he lives in a house full of women. Doesn't he have like 4 daughters or something?

I know there are a lot of "IF's" but the Chiefs do have a chance to be a good sleeper's pick this season.

-Better Oline (hopefully) leads to better play/confidence in Cassel.
-Better consistency/chain of command in the lockeroom with coaching staff will probably lead to better game preparation.
-Better weapons on offense (assuming Bowe comes back and can hit the ground running)
-Being healthy is HUGE
-Potentially great defense

On a positive note, this team almost won the ****ing division last season considering everything the Chiefs had gone through. There are a lot more positives than there are negatives regarding this season's Chiefs team and that's something we haven't been able to say for a long time.

Peyton Manning makes things extremely challenging this season. But I don't think he'll be as good with Denver as he was the Indy. Not because of his neck but because of the unfamiliarity. He completely ran the show in Indy and did it repeatedly for a very long time. There will be an adjustment period and even though I don't think he neck will be an issue, that certainly doesn't mean that it won't be, he has yet to be blasted by Hali and Houston. But he is that damn good and I would never count him out.

But I think everyone should look on the bright side and that this team will be better simply due to the fact that we no longer have some egotistical nutcase driving the ship.

Pasta Little Brioni · 08-09-2012, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think it's rather ridiculous that people would scrutinize what a head coach tries to do to win behind a QB who doesn't belong on an NFL roster, let alone start.

I understand why he may not have wanted to start Stanzi. And no, I don't think you can put most of the blame on Haley for Palko being on the roster because Pioli had every right to at least force Haley's hand to make that decision. He didn't. In fact, it probably is consistent with Bob Gretz's story that Pioli and Hunt were purposefully short-handing Haley so they could find new reasons to fire him.

There is no excuse having all those guys out on the field at the same time....none. How the **** are those guys going to get seperation??

**DeezNutz** · 08-09-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I think he's going to do very well in Pittsburgh.

Bold statement with a franchise QB in place.

Hammock Parties · 08-09-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

When your QB can't throw more than 10 yards, you have to be some dumb things with your personnel package to make it work. Especially when your alternative is to hand the ball off to a 3rd string RB.

It's pretty obvious what Haley was doing there.

There's no good reason to have a bunch of shit on the field all at once.

Brock · 08-09-2012, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

When your QB can't throw more than 10 yards, you have to be some dumb things with your personnel package to make it work. Especially when your alternative is to hand the ball off to a 3rd string RB.

Jesus.

CoMoChief · 08-11-2012, 10:55 AM

O.city · 08-11-2012, 11:01 AM

I think Haley supporters were put to rest last night.

Mr. Laz · 08-11-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

This is when people get ridiculous about making counter-arguments.

Nobody is giving "love" to Todd Haley. They are just defending against people like you that exaggerate how bad someone is. Most people who defend Haley, like myself, will say that he did a lot of really good things, did some stupid things, but all in all the team got better under his watch so he didn't deserve to be treated the way he was. And that, quite possibly, with a supportive front office and some time to learn how to coach, he could be a very good football coach.

It's a joke to say that the team improved under Crennel, but not acknowledge that the disciplinary culture helped motivate those defensive players to improve. And it's insane to say that the offense sputtered without Haley without once mentioning that maybe losing Jamaal Charles for 2011 might have had a LOT more to do with the offensive struggles and that Weis would have struggled just as mightily.

I think he's going to do very well in Pittsburgh. And I think he'll mature into a very good head coach some day under a front office that doesn't micromanage him.

*cough*bullshit*cough*

Mr. Laz · 08-11-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I think Haley supporters were put to rest last night.

no ... they will continue to bullshit around until/unless we play well in the regular season. Even then they will look for if's/and's/but's ...

ShowtimeSBMVP · 08-11-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I think Haley supporters were put to rest last night.

Not really...Last year was **** up cause of lock out. Plus Pioli spent money and got Crennel real players this season. Name 1 year under Haley when he got players like Hillis, Winston, Boss, Elam,Quinn and Routt.

KChiefs1 · 08-11-2012, 11:06 AM

Haley was/is a douche.

CaliforniaChief · 08-11-2012, 11:06 AM

What we saw last night is what first team offense is SUPPOSED to look like, especially against a lesser defense.

It just draws attention to how out of sync and inept our offense was under Haley.

**Ming the Merciless** · 08-11-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliforniaChief

What we saw last night is what first team offense is SUPPOSED to look like, especially against a lesser defense.

It just draws attention to how out of sync and inept our offense was under Haley.

Absolutely 100%. I think what it also points out (to me) is that a head coach (at least 99.9% of them) should stay out of the play calling business and get good people who he can WORK WITH to run the offense. Apparently Haley was not capable of this and fiddle ****ed too much with it and didnt trust his generals.

O.city · 08-11-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Not really...Last year was **** up cause of lock out. Plus Pioli spent money and got Crennel real players this season. Name 1 year under Haley when he got players like Hillis, Winston, Boss, Elam,Quinn and Routt.

We had packages last year, where Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin were all on the sidelines.

Last night was night and day. Haley micromanaged too much and wouldn't delegate.

Mr. Laz · 08-11-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsandO'sfan

Not really...Last year was **** up cause of lock out. Plus Pioli spent money and got Crennel real players this season. Name 1 year under Haley when he got players like Hillis, Winston, Boss, Elam,Quinn and Routt.

oh bullshit ... complete and utter bullshit

last year EVERY dam team had the exact same lockout issues. Many had worse issues because they were changing more personnel/coaches etc.

people bitch about not spending for Carr and now you are saying the spent for Routt etc? Hillis,Boss,Elam and Quinn are just medium level type guys.

Routt and Winston are the only significant money and you could say that Carr/Routt is a wash so Winston is the only real money spent.

You're so full of shit.

All the people who said the only problem with this team was Cassel were completely and utterly WRONG.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 08-11-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

We had packages last year, where Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin were all on the sidelines.

Last night was night and day. Haley micromanaged too much and wouldn't delegate.

Just like Crennel is doing with the D? Crennel has 6 First round picks and 2 2nd round picks. Haley Had Cassel.

08-08-2012, 10:49 PM
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7712254	This team will 1000x better without Todd Haley I truly believe that. I also believe that when players like/respect a coach, they tend to play very hard for them. I think more so in football than any pro sport, the head coach on a football has to have the ability to lead, to direct, to drive the ship etc. Romeo Crennel, a lot like DV, will let his coaches coach. I seriously doubt Haley was that way. He was a control maniac on offense. For **s sake he Fired the OC just weeks before the regular season. I mean you just have to sit back and ask yourself what kind of person does Haley have to be to make a silly, borderline insane decision like that? Everything they've worked on in the summer at TC, they're just going to wipe the slate clean and start from scratch for Week1? Haley's was an insane control freak. What do you think the players thought about that? I mean that would be like working on a huge project for weeks for a huge potential client or something at work and the project due date is only a couple days away and your project mngr comes in and just shoves everything off of the table and says "let's do this instead". If shit like that pisses you off how do you think the players felt? This is the part where the HC has to be competent enough to be able to drive the ship. Have consistency in the locker rooms, film rooms, being on the same page etc. He couldn't handle having someone else coach the offense. HE had to do it, because he thinks the Arizona Cardinals got to the SB because of him. The passing game under his era didn't do ing dick in Kansas City and as much as I can't stand the fact that Cassel is our QB and wish for something better, I also can't sit here and say that it's entirely his fault. Haley didn't think much of Cassel. The proof was there in his face on the sidelines. Haley's father even talked about how he thought Cassel was just average at best and it would be a safe bet to assume that Todd Haley and Dick Haley have had conversations about that. You tend to adopt what your parents believe and Todd's father was his door into the NFL world. If Dick thought Cassel was average wouldn't you think Todd thought that as well? We all know that Matt Cassel was a Pioli decision and Haley was forced fed Cassel. What else is Haley going to do? Quit? It's his first NFL head coaching gig, he was a ing hand puppet. Haley probably had little to no faith in Cassel from the get go and combine that with Haley's temper you get a horrible coaching environment. Combine that with the whole Chan Gailey situation, Larry Johnson, horrible Oline and WR talent or lack thereof and well you have a complete cluster mess on offense. The only thing good at all that season was Jamaal Charles. In 2010 when Charlie Weis came to KC, the offense became much better. Another Pioli move, Weis was a proven name, a OC players could respect We ran the ball like hell and Cassel didn't turn over the ball. He wasn't great by any means, and the true fans love the get off to his TD/INT ratio, but that didn't tell the entire story on Cassel's season that year. He still threw shitty underthrown high school girl passes, had shitty completion%, barley threw for 3,000 yards and his yards per completion was just sub average at best (ranked 18th in NFL). Over half of his TD's were to Bowe. We are all aware of Cassel's inability to read defenses and progress through his WR options. He locks on for too long, holds onto the ball for too long and gets sacked a lot. Cassel loves getting sacked, in fact he's good at doing it. Here's where he's ranked in the NFL: 2008: 1st 2009: 4th 2010: 18th (not bad, but not great either. And then you have to consider how much we ran the ball). 2011: 5th (projected) - Cassel played in 9 games and was sacked 22 times, averaging 2.4 sacks a game. Over a 16-game period that gives a total of 39.1 (or 39) sacks for a full season, which would have ranked Cassel 5th in the NFL. But the most important thing about Cassel that season was that he rarely turned the ball over, which was huge and a reason why we won 10 games that year. If you win the turnover battle you win games, it's as simple as that. With a proven OC it at least gave Cassel a better coaching environment to work within. Give him a couple receiving options and a strong running game and you can have success in this league with a good defense on the other side creating turnovers and scores. It's been done before. It's not what I'd prefer. I'd prefer to have an elite QB for 10yrs and consistently be a playoff contender and SB threat like the Colts, Patriots and now Giants and Packers. This is now a QB-driven league. When you want to win the Matt Cassel game manager's way, you need more pieces to fall in place and you need to have a little more luck. Elite QB's make other players around them better. Matt Cassel has to have the players around him, make him better. Elite QB's are the ones that thrive while under pressure and have the ability to lead drives to TD's, put points on the board when needed to win games. Cassel can't do that. You could count the number of times he's single handedly drove the offense down field, coming from behind to set up for a winning score (TD or FG) and still have enough fingers to smoke a j. We were seeing some success on offense thanks to the help of the shitty division that is the NFCWest. But when it came down to playoff time Haley had to intervene once again with his egotistical and maniac behavior and strip another highly regarded OC from his playcalling duties. This time it was during the Chiefs first home playoff games since 2003. The game wasn't a 24-7 halftime blowout, it was ing 10-7 and we were 100% in the game. Weis would then move on to the Univ. of Florida for the same position, stating that it was family reasons were the reason for the departure. Now, being that he's now moved back to the area coaching what has to be one of the worst football factories in the country, do yo honestly believe his statement? I sure as don't. He was probably tired of Haley's shit. There were reports during the season and in camp that these guys butted heads and one could see why. Weis and Haley worked together in the same office while w/ the NYJ. Weis went on to the Pats and won Superbowls and became a household name, and then went on to be the HC at one of college football's most prestigious programs, Notre Dame. I don't care what people say there is going to be natural headbutting just because of those 2 ego's and what they've been able to accomplish. It's not weird to assume that Weis probably felt like he was 10000% more qualified for the job than Haley was. Again you have to ask yourself, why would a NFL coach do something like that? Stripping away playcalling duties from your highly regarded, resume-filled OC during the franchise's biggest playoff game in 7 years at halftime in a close game? The answer is because Todd Haley was (a) way in over his head in being a head coach in the NFL and (b) a Bill Parcels wanna-be egotistical control freak that couldn't handle someone else running the offense. When he was hired he was asked the question who's going to run the offense, and he gave some bullshit cliche' answer with a shit eating grin on his face, the kind of look that a little 9-yr old kid makes when you ask him/her who his school crush is. Then came the Bill Muir era, as Todd Haley needed a puppet of his own. I don't think anyone truly believed Muir was capable of orchestrating an entire offense alone. Haley called the shots, and Muir said it and took naps upstairs in the coordinators booth. Point being this is going to be a much better season offensively for the Chiefs. Daboll isn't exactly great, but I also believe it's the players that make the plays and he has a lot to work with. There's more consistency with the coaching staff, a better environment. The players want to play for their coach which is always good. Haley's temper and attitude is what eventually got the best of him. I don't know what he said to Bowe that ultimately led to him getting canned but what I do know is that it had to be something bad enough to where Bowe would tell his agent about it and for Pioli to tell Haley to knock it off. And when you think about it that's completely acting like an immature goon and it's not acting like a professional NFL head coach or leader... and you don't think other players heard that? I bet that kinda shit went on all the time and there comes a time that it happens too much and players will develop the "tune-out switch". A player will have a hard time respecting a coach if the coach doesn't respect them. Maybe Haley acts like he does because he lives in a house full of women. Doesn't he have like 4 daughters or something? I know there are a lot of "IF's" but the Chiefs do have a chance to be a good sleeper's pick this season. -Better Oline (hopefully) leads to better play/confidence in Cassel. -Better consistency/chain of command in the lockeroom with coaching staff will probably lead to better game preparation. -Better weapons on offense (assuming Bowe comes back and can hit the ground running) -Being healthy is HUGE -Potentially great defense On a positive note, this team almost won the **ing division last season considering everything the Chiefs had gone through. There are a lot more positives than there are negatives regarding this season's Chiefs team and that's something we haven't been able to say for a long time. Peyton Manning makes things extremely challenging this season. But I don't think he'll be as good with Denver as he was the Indy. Not because of his neck but because of the unfamiliarity. He completely ran the show in Indy and did it repeatedly for a very long time. There will be an adjustment period and even though I don't think he neck will be an issue, that certainly doesn't mean that it won't be, he has yet to be blasted by Hali and Houston. But he is that damn good and I would never count him out. But I think everyone should look on the bright side and that this team will be better simply due to the fact that we no longer have some egotistical nutcase driving the ship.
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08-11-2012, 10:55 AM	#125
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $7712254	bump __________________
Posts: 39,242

08-11-2012, 11:01 AM	#126
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $-545936	I think Haley supporters were put to rest last night.
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08-11-2012, 11:06 AM	#130
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	Haley was/is a douche. __________________
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08-11-2012, 11:06 AM	#131
CaliforniaChief #RIPAce Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: So Cal Casino cash: $10695899	What we saw last night is what first team offense is SUPPOSED to look like, especially against a lesser defense. It just draws attention to how out of sync and inept our offense was under Haley.
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