***Official Car and Gearhead Thread***

[BigRedChief]

Seems like we need one on here to talk cars, mods and the coolness of your or their car.

Interested? Chime in

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by KC native

Won't that drive air temps up and kill a lot of performance? (not an expert on turbo location, I just know how they work and like them bcuz MOAR BOOST!)

Good thinking. We have a solution for that. We received the car with the Turbo's and motor already placed, and that was our first concern. I did some research on melting points for the Nylon carpet etc and we came to the conclusion that this will in fact be a massive problem. Air Flow to the Turbo's won't be an issue, Heat generated by the turbos would be.

We were able to actually mount the turbo's further away from the Trans compared to how we received it. This caused a problem with air flow, as now the Turbos were too close to the frame rails. The solution to that was to....this might sound weird and it's hard to explain w/o pictures.....the solution was to redesign the Frame rail and essentially turn the frame rail into a boxed air Plenum.

It sounds funky, but when you see it, it's really freaking neat.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

You guys are lucky, Mrs. Radar is the exact opposite.
Got her a hotrod toy ’57 Ford and when she drives it, which isn’t very often, she drives it like a grandma, burns the shit out of the clutch driving it everywhere 2nd. But her Jeep Liberty she drives like a maniac. Drives me crazy.

Mrs. BRC saw a bright blue challenger shaker in the parking lot when I went to pick up my ride. Now she wants one too.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

This next car is going to be amazing when it's done. Supercharged 5.0 Coyote....Detroit Speed-style front/rear suspension...lots of mods on this one....first pic shows the frenched tail lights.

I've heard that those quad-link rear suspensions can be quite a bitch if you're not driving the car that hard. I guess it has something to do with 'snap back' when it's bringing the back end back in line at low speeds; it just creates far more lateral jerk than most people are really after in a tourer.

Now if you're running auto-cross they're a necessity, but what's the general consensus you've seen on how happy people tend to be with those when they're just building a roadster?

[ToxSocks]

If your concern, KC, is that the Turbo's will get too hot, i wouldn't worry about it. Where they're located is completely open air. It's very similar to a Squire's STS rear mounted design.

Our main issue was making sure that they didn't make the cabin uncomfortably hot. The Turbos will be wrapped in Heat Shield as well.

Twin Turbo 5.0 Coyo Mod motor in a 2700lb car....this thing is going to be a kick in the nuts, even if we turn the boost down, which we most likely will. We'll turn up the boost for the Dyno when the the time comes just so the customer can have a Big Dick dyno sheet, then we'll likely turn the boost down to around 7lbs so it's a more practical driver.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Good thinking. We have a solution for that. We received the car with the Turbo's and motor already placed, and that was our first concern. I did some research on melting points for the Nylon carpet etc and we came to the conclusion that this will in fact be a massive problem. Air Flow to the Turbo's won't be an issue, Heat generated by the turbos would be.

We were able to actually mount the turbo's further away from the Trans compared to how we received it. This caused a problem with air flow, as now the Turbos were too close to the frame rails. The solution to that was to....this might sound weird and it's hard to explain w/o pictures.....the solution was to redesign the Frame rail and essentially turn the frame rail into a boxed air Plenum.

It sounds funky, but when you see it, it's really freaking neat.

Nice. I want to see the pics.

I was referring to the boosted air temps (heat soak) though. Where's the intercooler going to be placed?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I have to have an automatic (700R4) in mine so the wife can drive it and when she does, she limp wrists the thing so badly that it legitimately makes the car angry. The shift points/shift kit are set for a little more aggressive driving and when she goes out there and soft shoes it, it makes those shifts even rougher than they already are. At this point I'm half tempted to just drop a Muncie rock crusher in it so she just won't even try any more.

Then I'll take over and she'll get all bitchy because I ran the tread off it. Woman!! It ain't a ****in' hybrid! It's a noisy, smelly, ill-handling, hard-starting rattle trap with fewer safety features than our daughter's Power Wheel. The only saving grace is that the designers were kind enough to make sure that the steering column actually pierces your chest in the event of an accident so you won't suffer or have to fully grasp that you just murdered a unicorn - it's the Chevy 'euthanasia' package that came standard on all late 60s era muscle cars.

It gets 8 MPG and needs premium fuel. It can't be taken out in the rain and even if you wanted to take it out in the snow it probably wouldn't start. I've spent more maintaining it this year than I've spent in the 4 years I've owned my Sedan and that thing has 80,000 miles on it. There is NOTHING sensible about this vehicle and I'm getting shit from you right now for breaking the back end loose?!?!?! Get the **** outta here with that...

Yep, had some of the same conversations. It's not just transportation to point A. I'm not going to race it, I'm not going 185mph on the highway. I know its not sensible to have a car with those capabilities but not use them on a regular basis. She says just get something sensible. SENSIBLE! GTFO............ The heart wants what the heart wants.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I've heard that those quad-link rear suspensions can be quite a bitch if you're not driving the car that hard. I guess it has something to do with 'snap back' when it's bringing the back end back in line at low speeds; it just creates far more lateral jerk than most people are really after in a tourer.

Now if you're running auto-cross they're a necessity, but what's the general consensus you've seen on how happy people tend to be with those when they're just building a roadster?

We would NEVER suggest it to our customers. But, this customer had already purchased the suspension prior to delivering the car to us. Both front and rear suspension...the consensus around our shop is that it's shitty.

Here's a few issue we have with it:

1. The Rear suspension control arms drop way too low, forcing the customer to have to run a minimum 18" wheel, otherwise it wont clear the arm. Secondly, the track width pushes the wheel out further than stock (a big no-no on a car with an already limited wheel house).

2. The front suspension uses those Corvette Spindles....which are freaking huge. Same problem as the 1st, forced to run a large wheel, and again pushes the wheel base out, on top of being heavy.

3. The freaking spindles, being from a Vette, still had the stupid GM bolt pattern, meaning we had to redrill and stud the Spindle for the appropriate pattern. Otherwise, the customer woulda had a Ford bolt pattern on the rear and a GM pattern on the front. Stupidest thing ever.

If we had our choice, that suspension wouldn't be on the car.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by KC native

Nice. I want to see the pics.

I was referring to the boosted air temps (heat soak) though. Where's the intercooler going to be placed?

The Customer dropped off a 28"x13"x3.5" Intercooler to be front mounted behind the grill.

We're not sure that that'll suffice though. Haven't gotten that far in the project to worry about it yet.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

The Customer dropped off a 28"x13"x3.5" Intercooler to be front mounted behind the grill.

We're not sure that that'll suffice though. Haven't gotten that far in the project to worry about it yet.

Yea, I'm thinking heat soak is going to be a big problem with where those are (I could be very wrong though. I'm fairly new to the turbo world). Going to have exhaust, the transmission, and the turbos themselves all putting off good amounts of heat.

It's going to look awesome though lol

[ToxSocks]

As far as how it drives, DJ, i don't know. Like i said, we would never put our customers into that suspension if given the choice because of its inherent issues. It really is a beastly suspension that doesn't fit the car as well as other suspensions do. The thing is, we get these high roller customers who just go shopping for the most expensive, impressive looking stuff they can find....but that doesn't mean it's the BEST stuff.

Hell, we retro-fitted the front suspension off a 3-series BMW and put it into a '66 and it was less hassle than that shit is. No joke.

I'd put the Global West stuff in there before that stuff, and Global West isn't even our favorite.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by KC native

Yea, I'm thinking heat soak is going to be a big problem with where those are (I could be very wrong though. I'm fairly new to the turbo world). Going to have exhaust, the transmission, and the turbos themselves all putting off good amounts of heat.

It's going to look awesome though lol

I'll snap some pics of the undercarriage next time it's on the rack. It's all routed pretty nicely, huge 3.5" tubes.... I doubt it'll be an issue.

We built a a Twin Centrifugal supercharged 392 with twin intercoolers that ran into twin Viper throttle bodies top mounted, above the Valve Covers.....people said it couldn't be done and was ineffecient....never once had an issue with it and it was making around 900hp at the wheels on less than 10lbs of boost.

Also, sometimes design trumps functionality in cars like these. Gotta remember, these cars belong to 60-70 year old men who are gonna take it out once in a blue moon and show it off. Our main concern is that it can be driven comfortably, so these cars will be de-tuned.

These cars will never see a race track.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

As far as how it drives, DJ, i don't know. Like i said, we would never put our customers into that suspension if given the choice because of its inherent issues. It really is a beastly suspension that doesn't fit the car as well as other suspensions do. The thing is, we get these high roller customers who just go shopping for the most expensive, impressive looking stuff they can find....but that doesn't mean it's the BEST stuff.

Hell, we retro-fitted the front suspension off a 3-series BMW and put it into a '66 and it was less hassle than that shit is. No joke.

I'd put the Global West stuff in there before that stuff, and Global West isn't even our favorite.

The DSE stuff just sounds overbuilt to hell and gone.

Like I said, it seems like the Autocross guys swear by the stuff because as you noted - it's heavy duty stuff. You could drive the sucker hard into a corner without working about snapping a rod. And sure, weight matters in those races but when you're now working with 700+ HP, suddenly the trade-off of an extra 15-20 lbs for the added durability seems worthwhile.

If I ever just fell into some money and felt like re-building the suspension, I think I'd probably just go Hotchkis all-around after doing some homework (I'd love to find someone that could do a Guldstrand 'round here but it's almost certainly unnecessary). I will say that you are as vehemently anti DSE as anyone I've seen, but they do some geared towards the hardest driving and I'm just not going that route with it.

[KC native]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I'll snap some pics of the undercarriage next time it's on the rack. It's all routed pretty nicely, huge 3.5" tubes.... I doubt it'll be an issue.

We built a a Twin Centrifugal supercharged 392 with twin intercoolers that ran into twin Viper throttle bodies top mounted, above the Valve Covers.....people said it couldn't be done and was ineffecient....never once had an issue with it and it was making around 900hp at the wheels on less than 10lbs of boost.

Also, sometimes design trumps functionality in cars like these. Gotta remember, these cars belong to 60-70 year old men who are gonna take it out once in a blue moon and show it off. Our main concern is that it can be driven comfortably, so these cars will be de-tuned.

These cars will never see a race track.

I know. It hurts my heart though.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The DSE stuff just sounds overbuilt to hell and gone.

Like I said, it seems like the Autocross guys swear by the stuff because as you noted - it's heavy duty stuff. You could drive the sucker hard into a corner without working about snapping a rod. And sure, weight matters in those races but when you're now working with 700+ HP, suddenly the trade-off of an extra 15-20 lbs for the added durability seems worthwhile.

If I ever just fell into some money and felt like re-building the suspension, I think I'd probably just go Hotchkis all-around after doing some homework (I'd love to find someone that could do a Guldstrand 'round here but it's almost certainly unnecessary). I will say that you are as vehemently anti DSE as anyone I've seen, but they do some geared towards the hardest driving and I'm just not going that route with it.

It really is over engineered. Most people don't need something like that and it cuts into your build budget. It's a pain in the ass to install compared to pretty much every other suspension we've used and created problems that other suspensions don't create. Problems that end up costing the customer more money.

Our favorite suspension is made by Gateway Performance Suspensions. It's light, uncomplicated and handles incredibly well. It's a McPherson Strut conversion for the front with a proprietary Power Rack and Pinion (not some rebuilt, remanufactured rack) and a triangulated 3-Link in the rear.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by KC native

I know. It hurts my heart though.

Don't worry, you'll love that car i made the naming thread for. That car is going to be all about functionality....it's going to be made to drive the piss out of it....non-forced induction though. All motor.

That's why we're really looking forward to that one. We rarely get to build cars like that.