Is Trevor Lawrence a bust and vastly overrated?

[scho63]

This is really shocking to me how this guy has fallen off a cliff and the Jags are really in decline.

I don't follow them with a microscope to look at every injury or player transaction but what the hell has happened to them?

Is Doug Pederson not really great?
Was Trevor overrated from the start?
Is it all about a bad team and no weapons?
Key injuries?

He is looking bad, throwing bad picks, missing guys all over.

Almost playing like Zach Wilson

Can someone tell me how he is 0-8 in his last 8.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ToxSocks

2 1sts and a quasi 1st (2nd that we traded down on) is in fact an pretty damn good attempt at trying to address the issue.

And K-Pass was in the Mahomes draft, wasn't he? That's another 2nd.

Tanoh -- 2nd
Speaks -- 2nd
Clark -- 1st and 2nd
GK -- 1st
FAU -- 1st

Name a spot that we've plowed that much draft capital since we drafted Mahomes. There just isn't one. Hell, there's not a position that's particularly close as I think about it.

We've sunk a SHITLOAD into our DEs over the last several years and have precious little to show for it. Especially if GK plateaued and is mostly just a pretty solid SDE going forward.

And even that small return is gonna start to go backwards if we extend GK to a big money contract and he proves incapable of anchoring a pass-rush if/when Jones starts to decline.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

If you've already checked out on FAU then yeah, it's looking pretty dire.

He can't get off the line, man.

It's perplexing as all hell, but it's still there after over a year in the system. I just don't get it.

He's not a write off because it's seemingly such an easy fix and there are tools there if he gets it handled. But for such a seemingly simple problem, he sure hasn't seemed to make strides on a solution.

And the more time passes without it getting fixed, the more of that rookie contract value we torch.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And K-Pass was in the Mahomes draft, wasn't he? That's another 2nd.

Tanoh -- 2nd
Speaks -- 2nd
Clark -- 1st and 2nd
GK -- 1st
FAU -- 1st

Name a spot that we've plowed that much draft capital since we drafted Mahomes. There just isn't one. Hell, there's not a position that's particularly close as I think about it.

We've sunk a SHITLOAD into our DEs over the last several years and have precious little to show for it. Especially if GK plateaued and is mostly just a pretty solid SDE going forward.

And even that small return is gonna start to go backwards if we extend GK to a big money contract and he proves incapable of anchoring a pass-rush if/when Jones starts to decline.

It's weird to that it's not really a prospect type thing. All those guys are different type of guys, outside of GK none have really amounted to much.

Just weird. I dunno what it is or means

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Clark trade was quite a bit of capital. And FAU hasn't amounted to much.

I'm hard pressed to find a position they've put MORE draft/cap capital into in the Mahomes era than DE. They've damn sure put more into it than they have OT.

They've put a lot into OT though? Especially since they've only really been trying since Fisher and Schwartz got seriously injured in the same year.

Equivalent of a mid second for Brown Jr.
Second for Suamataia
Thirds for Niang and Morris
20 million AAV for Taylor.

[DJ's left nut]

Dee Ford is the closest we've had to a true impact pass-rusher to come into the organization in the Reid era. And we all know how he'll be remembered.

It's just not a great track record at all. To my eyes it's far worse than the WR room and people decided that Veach 'can't draft WRs' two years ago.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

They've put a lot into OT though? Especially since they've only really been trying since Fisher and Schwartz got seriously injured in the same year.

Equivalent of a mid second for Brown Jr.
Second for Suamataia
Thirds for Niang and Morris
20 million AAV for Taylor.

Which is roughly half what they've put into DE when you account for Clark's contract.

And when we had an opportunity to re-sign Wylie for a deal akin to the Danna deal, we didn't so much as make an effort. Meanwhile we seemed more than happy to bring Danna back.

We are putting a LOT more into the position than we are OT.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

He can't get off the line, man.

It's perplexing as all hell, but it's still there after over a year in the system. I just don't get it.

He's not a write off because it's seemingly such an easy fix and there are tools there if he gets it handled. But for such a seemingly simple problem, he sure hasn't seemed to make strides on a solution.

And the more time passes without it getting fixed, the more of that rookie contract value we torch.

Hey, I'm not disagreeing at all. FAU seemed like another situation where they settled for a position of need like Moore.

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Which is roughly half what they've put into DE when you account for Clark's contract.

And when we had an opportunity to re-sign Wylie for a deal akin to the Danna deal, we didn't so much as make an effort. Meanwhile we seemed more than happy to bring Danna back.

We are putting a LOT more into the position than we are OT.

Right. About half checks out. They've been serious about OT since 2021. That's when both Fisher and Schwartz got injury settlements IIRC.

[Pepe Silvia]

He’s a woman.

[scho63]

Good discussions via the tangent direction.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Hey, I'm not disagreeing at all. FAU seemed like another situation where they settled for a position of need like Moore.

I don't think it's exactly the same.

I think they probably figured "eh, it's a technique flaw; we'll coach it out of him..."

And he played so much of that quasi 3-tech stuff at K-State when they were in odd fronts that maybe they thought he'd been coached as more of a 2-gapper so explosion off the line wasn't something he'd been asked to demonstrate.

It seemed like something that was easily addressed. Then you could work on the bend and hand-fighting to get a real nice player on your hands.

I honestly think they're as stumped by it as we are. Because that's something that'll show up in practice pretty easily and they know that it's pretty much a problem that makes the kid unplayable.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by scho63

Good discussions via the tangent direction.

Yeah - I think the discussion on the original subject ran its course.

"Is Lawrence overrated?"

"Well duh"

"Oh...moving on then"

[Sassy Squatch]

Basing it more on the knowledge the Chiefs were clearly trying to move up for someone with multiple teams but it never materialized.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Basing it more on the knowledge the Chiefs were clearly trying to move up for someone with multiple teams but it never materialized.

If it was Mazi Smith, as suggested, that wouldn't have worked out much better.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I don't think it's exactly the same.

I think they probably figured "eh, it's a technique flaw; we'll coach it out of him..."

And he played so much of that quasi 3-tech stuff at K-State when they were in odd fronts that maybe they thought he'd been coached as more of a 2-gapper so explosion off the line wasn't something he'd been asked to demonstrate.

It seemed like something that was easily addressed. Then you could work on the bend and hand-fighting to get a real nice player on your hands.

I honestly think they're as stumped by it as we are. Because that's something that'll show up in practice pretty easily and they know that it's pretty much a problem that makes the kid unplayable.

I just don't understand how it's STILL a thing? It seems pretty easy to correct, like.....what are we missing here?