2012 Kansas City Royals Repository Thread

[alnorth]

2012 Slogan: Our Time

A better, more accurate 2012 Slogan: It is Finally Next Year
(from Great Expectations)

An alternative slogan if you don't like that one: Someone has to win this crappy division
(from alnorth)

With the beginning of a new year, it is time for the 2012 version of the Royals Repository Thread. We've got Hosmer, we've got a 2011-dominating Gordon, we've got Moose, we've got hopefully a killer bullpen, we've got a stereotypical slow slugging DH, we've got easily one of the best defensive shortstops in the AL, we've got a promising catcher in Salvador Perez. Hell, we've got offense and promising prospects galore.

We do not have starting pitching.

Oh yeah, we've also got this:



Get ready for, (as of January 2012 anyway), one of the most confusing puzzles of a baseball season in recent Royals history. Will they suck? Maybe, I don't know. Will we be given a year of 0.500 baseball? Possibly, I don't know. Will they win the division and go to the playoffs for the first time in 27 years? For the first time in a long time, it could happen, I don't know. 92 losses, 92 wins, or anything in between would not surprise a lot of us.

Everything goes here except Gameday threads and really big news. If a giant story breaks, the Royals achieve some awesome milestone, or we sign/lose a highly significant player/coach/mascot/whatever, then it might also deserve its own thread. This being Chiefs Planet, please do not clutter the board with new threads about trivial Royals news or you will only annoy those who come here for just Chiefs football. If you aren't sure and its not a Gameday thread, it goes here.

What sort of stuff often goes here? SPchief explained it well, so I'll just copy that:

If you locate something of interest.. ANYTHING.. deals on apparel, best ways in/out of the stadium, giveaways, great stories from this season or from seasons gone by, rumors, trades, anything.... feel free to post it here.

[DaWolf]

ESPN's Keith Law called the deal a "heist" for Tampa Bay Insider, and some chat board posters engaged in the inevitable potshots by force of habit. Friedman is revered among the armchair know-it-all crowd, and Kansas City GM Dayton Moore is a convenient punching bag, and this latest deal helped perpetuate that narrative.

If the five email responses I received from baseball executives late Sunday night are any indication, the reaction within the baseball industry is more nuanced. A National League general manager called the deal "bold on both sides," but liked it more from Kansas City's end. An AL talent evaluator also favored the Royals, in part because he suspects Myers might not be as good as the hype.

Two other personnel people were decidedly pro-Tampa Bay. "The Royals got owned on this one," said an NL executive, who marveled at Friedman's huge haul of young talent. Another National League talent evaluator praised Moore for his chutzpah, but not so much for his baseball judgment.

"My initial view was basic shock that Dayton did this," the evaluator said, "especially with so much pitching on the free-agent market. But they have a hard time getting pitching there. They gave up a lot to go all-in, so I applaud the effort. But I'm still shocked."

Finally, an American League general manager said he likes the deal for both clubs.

"I don't get all the online angst towards Kansas City," said the GM. "I am a Shields fan. I also respect that Tampa does their homework."

Myers, 22, hit 37 homers in the minors last year and is widely regarded as a "can't-miss" prospect. If he plays up to expectations, he will combine with Evan Longoria to give Tampa Bay two big right-handed threats in the middle of the order for years to come.

That said, it's always dicey predicting the outcome for prospects. For some perspective, I took a spin through the 2006 Baseball America Prospect Handbook to reflect on other highly-acclaimed hitters. The names Jeremy Hermida, Brandon Wood, Ian Stewart, Lastings Milledge, Andy LaRoche, Andy Marte, Conor Jackson, Daric Barton, Joel Guzman, Felix Pie and Jeff Clement appeared prominently. Wrap your mind around that assemblage of unfulfilled potential and try to say with any degree of certainty that Wil Myers is a lock to be a superstar.

The truth is, Moore was in a disadvantageous position because of a combination of bad luck and questionable drafting more than the lack of a coherent game plan. If the Royals had enjoyed even a modicum of success with Luke Hochevar, John Lamb, Montgomery and Danny Duffy, they wouldn't have been forced to raid the farm for Shields, a 31-year-old workhorse who is signed for two more years before he becomes eligible for free agency.

After the Royals went a disappointing 72-90 in 2012 for their 17th losing season in 18 years, Moore seems to realize he doesn't have much time for his so-called "process" to produce more tangible results.

"No, it's not easy to give up prospects," Moore told the Kansas City Star. "But it's important that we start winning games."

http://espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove12/st...as-city-royals

[bobinkc]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Dodgers fan here.

What should I know about Greinke?

Mental case who has underperformed all but one year. Not worth what you are going to pay him. By a long shot.

[Strongside]

Reporter: "Zack, are you concerning yourself with all of the recent hype? The talk about you possibly winning the Cy Young. Is that bothering you at all?"

Greinke: "Not really. I’ve been playing this World of Warcraft game."

[Strongside]

Reporter: "Zack, are you concerning yourself with all of the recent hype? The talk about you possibly winning the Cy Young. Is that bothering you at all?"

Greinke: "Not really. I’ve been playing this World of Warcraft game."

[warpaint*]

Meyers is going to be an absolute star.

Why not keep him, dump Francour, and sign Anibal Sanchez? Probably could get him for similar $. He is not the pitcher Shields is but we're not getting fleeced and mortgaging the best prospect in the game who's going to be up THIS year. Not to mention giving up Odorizzi TOO!

I am very frustrated by this. Just another cluster**** by the Royals.

All in the name of DM saving DM's job.

Disgusting.

[stevenidol]

Originally Posted by bobinkc

Mental case who has underperformed all but one year. Not worth what you are going to pay him. By a long shot.

[htismaqe]

What position has the ability, all by itself, to stop a losing streak before it becomes the 11-12 game monster Royals fans have become accustomed to?

Shields is probably worth more to the Royals than even his WAR suggests...

[Robo-Chachi]

Originally Posted by warpaint*

Meyers is going to be an absolute star.

Why not keep him, dump Francour, and sign Anibal Sanchez? Probably could get him for similar $. He is not the pitcher Shields is but we're not getting fleeced and mortgaging the best prospect in the game who's going to be up THIS year. Not to mention giving up Odorizzi TOO!

I am very frustrated by this. Just another cluster**** by the Royals.

All in the name of DM saving DM's job.

Disgusting.

Sanchez has to choose to sign here. Maybe the signs were he wasn't willing to do that. We would have had to give him 6-7 years to even have a chance. That's a lot of years to be tied to a pitcher.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Pestilence

Dodgers fan here.

What should I know about Greinke?

As physically gifted as he is mentally unpredictable in terms of approach, focus, and drive.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by Strongside

Reporter: "Zack, are you concerning yourself with all of the recent hype? The talk about you possibly winning the Cy Young. Is that bothering you at all?"

Greinke: "Not really. I’ve been playing this World of Warcraft game."

[mr. tegu]

In other news, this thread seems to be collapsing under its own weight.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

What position has the ability, all by itself, to stop a losing streak before it becomes the 11-12 game monster Royals fans have become accustomed to?

Shields is probably worth more to the Royals than even his WAR suggests...

If this trade causes the Royals to be viewed positively by future FAs, thus making them more likely to sign (think Pudge move by Detroit), that will be a huge ancillary benefit.

This angle isn't getting enough play.

That said, DM is still dumb as ****.

[Hootie]

I think people are a little too wrapped up in this WAR stuff. I like the stat, I get it...

but for the love of God last year we went on a huge losing streak to start the year...and then we evened out...and did it with Hosmer being terrible, Frenchy being god awful...no Cain or Perez for an extended period of time and simply ATROCIOUS starting pitching.

The fact of the matter is, regardless of how shitty we feel about losing Myers (and the dude was gonna be my favorite player)...we did gain a top tier starter and another guy with major league stuff...we're also *knock on wood* going into the season with Cain and Perez AND perhaps maybe Hosmer can go back to being the player he was his rookie year? Our guys are still so young we have no idea if they can take some big steps as well...and we have two holes in our lineup...so does just about every other team in baseball, if not more.

So really...did we lose the deal? Maybe. Probably.

But are we a hell of a lot better now compared to last year? Oh, yes. For sure.

Would we have been better with Myers over Frenchy! I'm sure we would be as well...

but when it comes down to it, pitching wins. Every single time.

[duncan_idaho]

WAR Predictions for 2013 KC rotation:

1) James Shields - 4.0 WAR (I think fwar is better for pitchers, and he's over 4 in each of the past two years)
2) Jeremy Guthrie - 2.5 WAR (this is in line with his production in Baltimore. Given a full season in KC, I think he slightly over-performs that.
3) Ervin Santana - 2.0 WAR (This is the toughest one to hedge. At his best, he's a 4 WAR guy. But he also can be a negative, like he was a season ago)
4) Wade Davis - 2.0 WAR (Another tough one... his most productive seasons were as a reliever or in partial duty. Projecting a little here and expecting to pitch like a solid 3/4 guy.
5) Bruce Chen - 1.5 WAR (Has been consistently in this ballpark for KC)

Compare that to last season's rotation, which was headed by Chen's 1.2 WAR, the negative value of Hochevar, and a bunch of replacement level guys.

It's a bonus. Not enough to get the Royals there by itself, but an upgrade nontheless.

If Hosmer and Moustakas aren't productive this year, none of this likely matters.

[warpaint*]

Originally Posted by Robo-Chachi

Sanchez has to choose to sign here. Maybe the signs were he wasn't willing to do that. We would have had to give him 6-7 years to even have a chance. That's a lot of years to be tied to a pitcher.

Oh for sure but he hasn't signed anywhere yet so we really don't know.

Regardless my biggest frustration is overpaying.

Hellickson, Moore, or Price would have been better.