New Conference re-alignment thread

[Saulbadguy]

The old one has AIDS.

Anyways, Chip Brown from Orangebloods.com reports OU may apply to the Pac-12 by the end of the month.

Oklahoma will apply for membership to the Pac-12 before the end of the month, and Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit, a source close to OU's administration told Orangebloods.com.

Even though Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said Friday the Pac-12 was not interested in expansion at this time, OU's board of regents is fed up with the instability in the Big 12, the source said.

The OU board of regents will meet within two weeks to formalize plans to apply for membership to the Pac-12, the source said.

Messages left Sunday night with OU athletic director Joe Castiglione and Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder were not immediately returned.

If OU follows through with what appears to be a unanimous sentiment on the seven-member Oklahoma board of regents to leave the Big 12, realignment in college athletics could be heating back up. OU's application would be matched by an application from Oklahoma State, the source said, even though OSU president Burns Hargis and mega-booster Boone Pickens both voiced their support for the Big 12 last Thursday.

There is differing sentiment about if the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors are ready to expand again after bringing in Colorado and Utah last year and landing $3 billion TV contracts from Fox and ESPN. Colorado president Bruce Benson told reporters last week CU would be opposed to any expansion that might bring about east and west divisions in the Pac-12.

Currently, there are north and south divisions in the Pac-12. If OU and OSU were to join, Larry Scott would have to get creative.

Scott's orginal plan last summer was to bring in Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and put them in an eastern division with Arizona and Arizona State. The old Pac-8 schools (USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State) were to be in the west division.

Colorado made the move in June 2010, but when Texas A&M was not on board to go west, the Big 12 came back together with the help of its television partners (ABC/ESPN and Fox).

If Oklahoma and Oklahoma State were accepted into the Pac-12, there would undoubtedly be a hope by Larry Scott that Texas would join the league. But Texas sources have indicated UT is determined to hang onto the Longhorn Network, which would not be permissible in the Pac-12 in its current form.

Texas sources continue to indicate to Orangebloods.com that if the Big 12 falls apart, the Longhorns would consider "all options."

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe held an emergency conference call 10 days ago with league presidents excluding Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M and asked the other league presidents to "work on Texas" because Beebe didn't think the Pac-12 would take Oklahoma without Texas.

Now, it appears OU is willing to take its chances with the Pac-12 with or without Texas.

There seemed to be a temporary pause in any possible shifting of the college athletics' landscape when Baylor led a charge to tie up Texas A&M's move to the Southeastern Conference in legal red tape. BU refused to waive its right to sue the SEC over A&M's departure from the Big 12, and the SEC said it would not admit Texas A&M until it had been cleared of any potential lawsuits.

Baylor, Kansas and Iowa State have indicated they will not waive their right to sue the SEC.

It's unclear if an application by OU to the Pac-12 would draw the same threats of litigation against the Pac-12 from those Big 12 schools.

Stay tuned.

[Bearcat]

It's one thing to want a conference to do well versus actively rooting for rival teams in the name of conference pride.

And it's plain silly to think Big 12 teams should all be rooting for each other in the name of the Big 12 not disbanding, since over a decade later it still hasn't happened.


As far as college vs pro, I think a case could be made that there's actually less reason to care about NFL divisional rivalries these days (as opposed to say the old school Chiefs/Raiders games where you could physically assault players from the other team).

You go to high school and hate the cross town high school... then you go to college and hate the college that's miles apart or in the next state over. And you know people who go to those schools and find reasons to hate them, too.

I personally have very little reason to hate the Broncos or people in Denver, especially in the past 20+ years... and even less so for people in LA or Oakland or Vegas or wherever the Raiders will be playing in 10 years.

College sports transcend the up and down years... Auburn can suck and still ruin Alabama's entire season. Broncos suck for a decade or more and..... meh? Maybe they win in October one year?

[RustShack]

I root for the Big12 in football and March madness. Obviously if Kansas and Iowa State matched up in the tournament I’d root against Kansas. But yeah the Big12 needs all the wins it can get post season. I always rooted for Oklahoma or Cincinnati in the playoffs. Hoped TCU and/OR Baylor would have gotten in the first ever playoff.

I think it’s more important than ever now that someone emerges in the new Big12 and wins some playoff games or more.

[Kiimo]

I definitely rooted for Baylor in the college basketball championship game but a lot of that is screw Gonzaga and their pretender paper tiger asses

[DJay23]

If I invest myself in rooting against your team during the entire season, then **** your team in the playoffs too.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by DJay23

If I invest myself in rooting against your team during the entire season, then **** your team in the playoffs too.

It’s a sliding scale of hate. I did root for Baylor in the Championship. They haven’t really ever been a threat other than that year. And it really is amazing what Drew has been able to do from going from covering up murder to a contender (at the time). And **** Gonzaga and whoever the media darling is.

I was rooting for Tech against Puke. I rooted hard there.

I rooted for TCU against Zona too. **** them they deserve that shit too.

But I laughed as hard as anybody at MU getting dumped by Norfolk State. I was thrilled when Durants UT team choked it out. Same with Griffins OU team.

Odds are I’m rooting for Big 12 against Puke or Carolina or whatever team is particularly annoying.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It’s a sliding scale of hate. I did root for Baylor in the Championship. They haven’t really ever been a threat other than that year. And it really is amazing what Drew has been able to do from going from covering up murder to a contender (at the time). And **** Gonzaga and whoever the media darling is.

I was rooting for Tech against Puke. I rooted hard there.

I rooted for TCU against Zona too. **** them they deserve that shit too.

But I laughed as hard as anybody at MU getting dumped by Norfolk State. I was thrilled when Durants UT team choked it out. Same with Griffins OU team.

Odds are I’m rooting for Big 12 against Puke or Carolina or whatever team is particularly annoying.

Exactly... Baylor's just about the least hatable team in the Big 12. I've wanted them to do well in football in the past just to **** over Texas and OU, and for years watching Drew waste away talent was more sad than anything.

It really comes down to the Big 8 + Texas. There might be a lesser-than-two-evils situation or maybe I want a team to advance so Kansas has a shot at them... but, those were the schools I grew up hating.

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

It's one thing to want a conference to do well versus actively rooting for rival teams in the name of conference pride.

And it's plain silly to think Big 12 teams should all be rooting for each other in the name of the Big 12 not disbanding, since over a decade later it still hasn't happened.


As far as college vs pro, I think a case could be made that there's actually less reason to care about NFL divisional rivalries these days (as opposed to say the old school Chiefs/Raiders games where you could physically assault players from the other team).

You go to high school and hate the cross town high school... then you go to college and hate the college that's miles apart or in the next state over. And you know people who go to those schools and find reasons to hate them, too.

I personally have very little reason to hate the Broncos or people in Denver, especially in the past 20+ years... and even less so for people in LA or Oakland or Vegas or wherever the Raiders will be playing in 10 years.

College sports transcend the up and down years... Auburn can suck and still ruin Alabama's entire season. Broncos suck for a decade or more and..... meh? Maybe they win in October one year?

KU football is too pathetic to get worked up about.

K State and Missouri basketball is too pathetic to get worked up about.

So I don't really see the Jayhawks as having a good rivalry.

But I do want the Big 12 to crush other conferences in BB because more top ranked teams mean more nationally televised games for KU.

[DJay23]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

It’s a sliding scale of hate. I did root for Baylor in the Championship. They haven’t really ever been a threat other than that year. And it really is amazing what Drew has been able to do from going from covering up murder to a contender (at the time). And **** Gonzaga and whoever the media darling is.

I was rooting for Tech against Puke. I rooted hard there.

I rooted for TCU against Zona too. **** them they deserve that shit too.

But I laughed as hard as anybody at MU getting dumped by Norfolk State. I was thrilled when Durants UT team choked it out. Same with Griffins OU team.

Odds are I’m rooting for Big 12 against Puke or Carolina or whatever team is particularly annoying.

I guess I'll say that I will root for a conference team from an upset standpoint, like TCU/Arizona, but not because TCU was Big XII, rather because I always want the low seeds to win to help out KU.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by Raiderhader

There is an argument to be made for it in college sports (I don’t subscribe to it but, it is a legitimate argument) but, there is no logical reason for it the pros.

Agreed.

I don't like it but I understand the reasoning. A playoff spot can be dependent on how conference mates performed in previous playoff spots or OOC games.

Fortunately, as an Army fan, I don't have to worry about that.

We just show up and beat Missouri in bowl games.

[KChiefs1]

John Canzano:

I cringed when I heard UCLA and USC announce they were leaving the Pac-12 Conference in 2024. I’m a traditionalist and I lamented the loss the more than 100 years of conference history.

I was also initially skeptical when I heard politicians might get involved in an attempt to block UCLA’s departure to the Big Ten Conference. But the more I talk with lawmakers, the more I believe the Bruins’ biggest athletic battle this season will take place in Sacramento.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom isn’t happy that he didn’t know about UCLA’s departure. Maybe it’s posturing, maybe not. But what’s clear is that Newsom is fired up and wondering why the move wasn’t discussed and debated with the University of California Regents.

More than one athletic department source at UCLA confessed to me that they were surprised the defection news didn’t leak a few weeks before the announcement.

Mike Baumgartner is a former State Senator in Washington. He’s served on a variety of educational and sports committees. He’s closely following the development and sees some troubles forming on the horizon for the Bruins.

“The UC Regents themselves didn’t know what UCLA was up to and no public vote was taken,” Baumgartner said. “It’s still unclear what the majority of them think, but they could do anything from stop it outright to vote to make UCLA athletics subsidize and financial damage to Cal.”

A subsidy would be an interesting compromise. It would penalize UCLA and bolster Cal, but it wouldn’t ease the anxiety of the bondholders of the UC system. The Bruins stand to rake in somewhere between $75 million to $100 million in annual media rights revenue under the Big Ten’s TV deal with Fox. Would having to share revenue with Cal give UCLA pause? Or just serve as a speed bump?

Baumgartner’s alliance is with the Washington schools. But his expertise puts him in a unique position here. He knows the back channels and understands the dynamics better than most. He cautioned me to not listen too carefully to Political Science professors who are busy going on the record with various news outlets saying the Newsom doesn’t have the authority to block the move.

“Nobody knows less about how politics actually works than poli-sci professors,” Baumgartner said. “The leverage a Governor has over a public university is immense. If Newsom doesn’t want UCLA to go, they won’t be going.”

I’m sort of interested to see how the Bruins would perform in football in the Big Ten. They’ve been to one bowl game in the last six seasons and haven’t played in a Rose Bowl since 1998.

Chip Kelly went 8-4 last season and I think his team is going to be competitive again this season, but how many games would UCLA win in a typical Big Ten football season?

TV money is great. And you’d rather not be left behind in college football’s minor leagues(ACC/Big 12), but I can tell you the remaining 10 universities in the Pac-12 are buzzing about how challenging football will be for the Bruins.

6-6?

7-5?

What’s “making it” in the Big Ten for the Bruins’ football program? UCLA has won more than seven games only once in the last six seasons while playing in the Pac-12.

If the resolution here ends up being a heavy subsidy, it’s possible UCLA is facing a lose-lose situation. If UCLA leaves for the Big Ten, gets its teeth kicked in, spends significant revenue on the extra travel, and has to cut Cal a check at the end, is that really a win?

Said Baumgartner: “UCLA’s leadership will be cowering for forgiveness.”

I’ll update with more as this develops.


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[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Another idiot writer who can't see the big picture.

CFB is quickly becoming Tier 1 or Tier Irrelevant. The PAC 12 payouts will ensure that every remaining member will join Tier Irrelevant.

USC and UCLA have won by leaving. The future records be damned. They are on the right side of the future separation.

[KChiefs1]

After listening to SEC Commissioner Greg Sankey today I believe the new playoff format is probably rolled out in 2024/25 when the new tv contracts are renegotiated.

I think there will be 4 major conferences with an 12 team playoff. The SEC/B1G champs & runner ups getting byes with 8 at large teams filling out the field.

SEC sticks with 16, B1G sticks with 16.

The remaining PAC 10 members invite BYU, Texas Tech, Baylor & Okie State to join. There is a history there with 3 of those teams flirting with the PAC. This is KU & KSU’s best bet for a conference if offered.

ACC decides to expand to 20, landing UCF, Cincinnati, WVU, and Notre Dame.

That would essentially leave the Big 12 as KU, KSU, Houston, TCU & Iowa State.

KU has been rumored to have reached out to the ACC, B1G, and SEC but they are still on the sidelines of realignment.

Unfortunately, besides a basketball program with a very shady recent history, they don’t have anything to sell besides their AAU membership. KSU is probably screwed.

I believe it was Andy Maples who suggested KU join the Big East except for football and become an independent in football.

Scary times in the state of Kansas.

I think the whole KU/KSU narrative is a testament to how investment in infrastructure is more important than actually success on the court/field.


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[KChiefs1]

John Canzano:

The Big 12 reportedly informed the Pac-12 on Monday evening that it’s not interested in merging.

A few quick thoughts…

• I’m not shocked. I felt like a Big 12 + Pac-12 merger was wishful thinking. There’s strength in numbers, sure. But ultimately this is about fit and I struggled to see how those two conferences would mesh in a way that worked for both entities.

• The Pac-12 (minus USC and UCLA) will have 12.5 million television households in its remaining markets. The Big 12 currently has only 10.2 million TV homes, but will expand to about 15 million after the additions of BYU, Central Florida, Cincinnati, and Houston. Keep those numbers in mind.

• The ACC has 28.2 million households. It’s TV markets are superior to the Big 12 and its not close. Also, the ACC already has a partnership with ESPN, which covets inventory in the Pacific Time Zone.

• I’ve wondered for a while how the Big 12 might fit in a new deal between ESPN and the Pac-12. Answer: It really doesn’t.

• The Big 12 and Pac-12 university presidents and chancellors didn’t feel like a seamless fit. Those who lead the Pac-12 campuses fashion themselves academics and lined up with the Big Ten over the years because of that.

• I’ve been writing and talking about a “loose partnership” between the Pac-12 and the ACC for a couple of weeks. I still believe this is headed in that direction.

• The Big 12’s television contract isn’t up until 2025. The Pac-12’s expires in 2024, but it has opened negotiations early. Those in the industry tell me this difference shouldn’t have been a deal breaker but it’s being cited as one of the reasons.

Bob Thompson, the former president of Fox Sports Networks, told me on Monday night, “If the Big 12 TV partners agreed to open negotiations early that could easily happen before 2024. Nothing precludes an early negotiation as long as parties agree.”

So it just sounds like a merger wasn’t a good fit.

Added Thompson: “So now we see if somebody plays ‘Let’s poach some teams.’”

• There was early speculation that the Big 12 might chase Arizona State, Arizona, Utah and Colorado. But media reports about that were shot down by my Pac-12 sources. I won’t speak for all four of those schools, but the prevailing sentiment from athletic directors within the Pac-12 is that the remaining 10 universities will stick together and ride out the current media rights negotiations together. I’ll make some calls and report back with updates.

• Phoenix’s TV market has 2.1 million households. I’ve wondered for a while if ASU might try to leverage the Pac-12 for a larger share of the next media rights deal. That said, I have a difficult time actually seeing ASU bolt for the Big 12.

• The Big 12 programs that I think the Pac-12 (and ESPN) would be most interested in are: Kansas, Baylor, TCU and Houston. If the Pac-12 goes hunting, I expect those universities to be primary targets. This is 100-percent about potential television revenue.

• I included Kansas because I think ESPN would covet men’s basketball matchups featuring the ACC’s Duke and North Carolina and the Pac-12’s Arizona and Oregon. Kansas would be an interesting addition.

• The Pac-12 is in an exclusive negotiating period with the ESPN and Fox. That window expires on Aug. 4, but I’m told the parties could come to an agreement before then.

• ESPN is the likely bidder here. Think about what that network needs. It has to think about the restless members in the ACC and how it might get them some additional revenue right now. A partnership with the Pac-12 makes sense to me. Sharing revenue with the Big 12 (Read: more mouths to feed) doesn’t.

• Pac-12 Media Day is July 29 in Los Angeles. Commissioner George Kliavkoff needs something to sell to the public during that event. I expect he’ll have something of substance. I don’t think we’re going to have to wait until Aug. 4.

More as this develops…


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[TribalElder]

California might sue to block the two cali schools from leaving the pac 12

[FloridaMan88]

Notre Lame could help the Big 12 get a lucrative new TV contract from NBC… maybe.

Notre Dame targeting $75 million annual media rights payout in quest to remain independent. Big 12 would be used to enhance contract with NBC. https://t.co/Do0GY2YbwU https://t.co/zuourq7GJZ

— Dennis Dodd (@dennisdoddcbs) July 18, 2022