Call Your Shot: Who’s the Chiefs first selection in the 2020 Draft

[staylor26]

I’m going with Kristian Fulton, CB, LSU

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by staylor26

This I definitely don’t agree with. He’s rock solid in coverage and has a knack for getting his hands on the ball.

However, the 1st is too early for him IMO.

I think he's a good player, like I could see him being a little bit better than Damian Wilson was for us last year, but he isn't a guy that moves with the fluidity and start and stop skills as some of the other backers.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

I’d be happy with him in the third if we miss out on Murray, Queen or Gay.

We should just use our first 2 picks on Queen and Gay because nothing would be funnier than having a Gay Queen on defense.

[DJ's left nut]

Can I again speak to this "The Chiefs need more draft picks!!" narrative?

Again - the Chiefs have a pick in each round through the first 5. The 49ers, by contrast, have no picks in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds. They have 2 5s, a six and 2 7s.

Those are throwaway picks for a SB organization w/ a deep roster. They have 5 picks on day 3 that flat out don't !#@#ing matter for a good team because 3rd day picks are going to struggle like crazy to make the roster.

The Rams and Steelers and Texans and Bears all have more picks than the Chiefs and their picks mostly suck. This idea that we have less capital than the Bills because the Bills have 7 picks is silly.

The Chiefs aren't in an amazing draft position, no. They aren't the Dolphins or anything crazy like that. But they also returned almost an entire SB roster and had a great rookie class last year. The idea that they need to just go get as many picks as they can is folly. They need as many good players as they can get and adding 3rd day picks to move down 10-12 spots isn't going to do that.

If you can snag a pick in the 3rd round to trade back a handful of spaces - go ahead and do that. But anything in the 5th or later is worthless to this roster and this team. Those are wild cards and you can use UDFA and street FAs to fill those roster spots just as effectively.

If there's a surplus of teams looking to move down and the 'value' is being suppressed because of it, take advantage of that. Look to move UP at that point. But don't just fall prey to this idea that more = better. If the value isn't there, don't move back and end up drafting Spithood instead of Olshanski so you can get some late round pick that turns into Samie Parker.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Can I again speak to this "The Chiefs need more draft picks!!" narrative?

Again - the Chiefs have a pick in each round through the first 5. The 49ers, by contrast, have no picks in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds. They have 2 5s, a six and 2 7s.

Those are throwaway picks for a SB organization w/ a deep roster. They have 5 picks on day 3 that flat out don't !#@#ing matter for a good team because 3rd day picks are going to struggle like crazy to make the roster.

The Rams and Steelers and Texans and Bears all have more picks than the Chiefs and their picks mostly suck. This idea that we have less capital than the Bills because the Bills have 7 picks is silly.

The Chiefs aren't in an amazing draft position, no. They aren't the Dolphins or anything crazy like that. But they also returned almost an entire SB roster and had a great rookie class last year. The idea that they need to just go get as many picks as they can is folly. They need as many good players as they can get and adding 3rd day picks to move down 10-12 spots isn't going to do that.

If you can snag a pick in the 3rd round to trade back a handful of spaces - go ahead and do that. But anything in the 5th or later is worthless to this roster and this team. Those are wild cards and you can use UDFA and street FAs to fill those roster spots just as effectively.

If there's a surplus of teams looking to move down and the 'value' is being suppressed because of it, take advantage of that. Look to move UP at that point. But don't just fall prey to this idea that more = better. If the value isn't there, don't move back and end up drafting Spithood instead of Olshanski so you can get some late round pick that turns into Samie Parker.

The only reason that I could see us needing more picks is because Veach likes to move around. And that’s harder to do when you only have 5 picks. Now maybe he only comes out of this draft with 4 players because he trades away a 4th or 5th to move up for a player.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

The only reason that I could see us needing more picks is because Veach likes to move around. And that’s harder to do when you only have 5 picks. Now maybe he only comes out of this draft with 4 players because he trades away a 4th or 5th to move up for a player.

There are going to be UDFA's that have better careers than the 6th and 7th round picks so I'm not worried.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I think he's a good player, like I could see him being a little bit better than Damian Wilson was for us last year, but he isn't a guy that moves with the fluidity and start and stop skills as some of the other backers.

I think you’re selling him short. Dude is a former safety and is much more of a natural in coverage than any LB we had playing significant snaps last year.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

There are going to be UDFA's that have better careers than the 6th and 7th round picks so I'm not worried.

Always.

The limiting factor for this team is ultimately going to be roster spots. It's a championship team that made it a point to bring back as many key contributors as possible.

If you try to squeeze guys like Washington and Ta'amu on this roster, we're talking about maybe 5 'open' roster spots. And sure, there are always a few surprise cuts of veteran players but those were contributors last year - they're not gonna be replaced by some 5th round pick. That's where you backfill from your 1st and 2nd day picks to create some cap space.

The back of this roster is just gonna be awfully tight and when you consider guys on future deals we had last year, practice squad stashes we've forgotten about (Fortson, Senat), IR guys we squirreled away like Lovett (and Speaks) - well there just isn't a shitload of room.

If you take 3 or 4 players on the 3rd day, the odds of them being any more likely to matter long-term than guys we squirreled away on the PS last year or can sign as priority UDFAs this year are just damn remote.

We're fine. Are there consequences of having fewer late picks? Sure - but The Franchise got the key one; Veach is just more limited on his trade-ups. That isn't a consequence that's alleviated by taking whatever you can get to move down from 32, risking your return and punting a cheap 5th year all in the name of trying to scoop up back of the roster chaff.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Always.

The limiting factor for this team is ultimately going to be roster spots. It's a championship team that made it a point to bring back as many key contributors as possible.

If you try to squeeze guys like Washington and Ta'amu on this roster, we're talking about maybe 5 'open' roster spots. And sure, there are always a few surprise cuts of veteran players but those were contributors last year - they're not gonna be replaced by some 5th round pick. That's where you backfill from your 1st and 2nd day picks to create some cap space.

The back of this roster is just gonna be awfully tight and when you consider guys on future deals we had last year, practice squad stashes we've forgotten about (Fortson, Senat), IR guys we squirreled away like Lovett (and Speaks) - well there just isn't a shitload of room.

If you take 3 or 4 players on the 3rd day, the odds of them being any more likely to matter long-term than guys we squirreled away on the PS last year or can sign as priority UDFAs this year are just damn remote.

We're fine. Are there consequences of having fewer late picks? Sure - but pest got the key one; Veach is just more limited on his trade-ups. That isn't a consequence that's alleviated by taking whatever you can get to move down from 32, risking your return and punting a cheap 5th year all in the name of trying to scoop up back of the roster chaff.

I believe because of the new CBA, you get 55 spots now.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I believe because of the new CBA, you get 55 spots now.

Yep. And two more active players on game day. Plus larger practice squads too.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I believe because of the new CBA, you get 55 spots now.

Flip down Spotrac and tell me how many clear spots you see up for grabs.

First 4 picks are gonna make the team. So you can probably turf guys like Ryan Hunter.

But even at 55, roster spots will be at a premium unless/until you start getting into moving on from guys who have disappointed like DoD. And are you really gonna be excited about cutting DoD in favor of some 6th round pick?

It's just shuffling deck chairs at that point. Ultimately I just don't understand the utility of devaluing your best asset in the name of acquiring redundant and/or superfluous ones.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Flip down Spotrac and tell me how many clear spots you see up for grabs.

First 4 picks are gonna make the team. So you can probably turf guys like Ryan Hunter.

But even at 55, roster spots will be at a premium unless/until you start getting into moving on from guys who have disappointed like DoD. And are you really gonna be excited about cutting DoD in favor of some 6th round pick?

It's just shuffling deck chairs at that point. Ultimately I just don't understand the utility of devaluing your best asset in the name of acquiring redundant and/or superfluous ones.

Nah I agree with you, I assume one of those spots is given to Taamu as the 3rd QB.

Where I think we could see change...I expect a RB to be drafted and with all the RBs, I think that is a wide open spot I think we could see Damian Williams and the rest of the group as all new guys. Darrell Williams Darwin Thompson they haven't earned anything at this point.

Lovett probably has a shot at Yelders spot, the 6th WR spot, backup OL per usual...LB's kinda open but there isn't a ton that's for sure.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Nah I agree with you, I assume one of those spots is given to Taamu as the 3rd QB.

Where I think we could see change...I expect a RB to be drafted and with all the RBs, I think that is a wide open spot I think we could see Damian Williams and the rest of the group as all new guys. Darrell Williams Darwin Thompson they haven't earned anything at this point.

Lovett probably has a shot at Yelders spot, the 6th WR spot, backup OL per usual...LB's kinda open but there isn't a ton that's for sure.

Kemp's rehab must have gone poorly. He was a cinch to make the roster last year and then they didn't even extend him an ERFA tender (which would've been minimum). There's gotta be a developmental WR added to the roster somehow, even if it's just Fortson. And yeah, there's gonna be some RB turnover.

But at a point they're all pretty damn fungible.

[Chief Northman]

People worried about Veach’s ability to move around, don’t forget that they anticipate having a couple compensatory picks next year. The Chiefs will likely be drafting at the bottom of rounds for the foreseeable future, so dangling a future pick or two as ammunition to move up a few spots to get a guy they want in any given round this draft can be something I expect the Chiefs to do if one of “their guys” is within reach.

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

People worried about Veach’s ability to move around, don’t forget that they anticipate having a couple compensatory picks next year. The Chiefs will likely be drafting at the bottom of rounds for the foreseeable future, so dangling a future pick or two as ammunition to move up a few spots to get a guy they want in any given round this draft can be something I expect the Chiefs to do if one of “their guys” is within reach.

Except teams know that they’re going to be picking at the end of each round.....so the value of those picks are going to be less.

[Kiimo]

Originally Posted by O.city

Some talk that Logan Wilson May sneak into the first round

Here's what I think about the best linebackers in the draft: they are all too small to play linebacker.

RANKING THE LINEBACKERS

(Photo: Grant Halverson/Getty Images)
1. ISAIAH SIMMONS, Clemson (6-3 ½, 233, 4.38, 1): Simmons redshirted in 2016, played extensively as a safety in ’17 and started as a LB/nickel back in 2018-’19. “Love the speed,” one scout said. “Love the size, the length, the versatility, coverage. I’d play him at linebacker close to the line of scrimmage. In some schemes he may be a safety. He can wear a lot of different hats. That’s what makes him so special. He can cover. He can play in the slot. He can play in the box. He can play in the deep part of the field. Even if he is your ‘sam’ backer you can play him at nickel. You can blitz him. He’s a hybrid. Love him.” He declined to do shuttle runs or drill work at the combine after testing superbly earlier in the night. “With the exception of (Joe) Burrow I might make the guy the first pick,” said a second scout. “At North Carolina, Lawrence Taylor played all over the field. Played in space and rushed the passer. I don’t want to make that comparison now because it’s been so long, but this guy can rush the passer, play on the line of scrimmage, move 12 to 15 yards down the field and cover people.” Simmons scored 12 on the 12-minute, 50-question Wonderlic test. Many understand the test has its limitations and doesn’t always provide the clearest model of intellect. Still, it’s survived because teams still view it as a valuable tool in the evaluation of players. “It’s crazy to think he had a low test score and played like five different positions at Clemson,” a third scout said. “For him to be able to handle all that stuff and perform like he did, it doesn’t match up.” Simmons is a fourth-year junior from Olathe, Kan. “You can’t play a base defense with him,” said a fourth scout. “He could be a huge hit. He could be like a satellite defender that everything revolves around. Or he’s never going to find a home and people will be left scratching their heads saying, ‘He wasn’t a safety, he wasn’t a linebacker, we could never find a home for him.’ There’s a lot of risk. If you do not have a fully engaged shared vision, oh yeah, it could go south quickly.” His arms were 33 3/8, hands were 9 5/8. “He is not a tough, physical football player,” said a fifth scout. “He’s not a hitter. Doesn’t break down well. I don’t get it. Down in and down out, he’s not a factor or a difference-maker.”

2. KENNETH MURRAY, Oklahoma (6-2 ½, 242, 4.55, 1): Murray is a third-year junior. “One of my favorite players,” said one scout. “When you plug in the player and the person you love him even more. He does everything you want. He runs the defense. I thought he was better than Roquan Smith. I don’t think he’s quite as good as a Luke Kuechly. He’ll be a Pro Bowl-type player. He didn’t cover there. They didn’t ask him to, but I think he can. He’s an explosive athlete but he’s not a physical tackler. That’s one of the only knocks I have on him.” Murray started all 42 games, finishing with 335 tackles (37 for loss) and 9 ½ sacks. “He can run the show,” a second scout said. “Just a little bit lacking on instincts and angles. But he’s big, fast and a hell of a kid. He loves football. Great locker-room guy.” Murray is a tremendous testing athlete, too. He scored a Wonderlic of 21. “He’s sideline-to-sideline,” a third scout said. “Inside, he tries to take on. He’s just not the strongest. He’s more of a slip-and-dip type, which is what you’re playing with now. As far as a modern-day linebacker, he has those traits. Covers well.” Murray is from Missouri City, Texas.

3. PATRICK QUEEN, LSU (6-0, 229, 4.50, 1-2): Queen is a third-year junior who wasn’t even starting until Michael Divinity was suspended early in the season. “I think Queen’s the second-best player in the draft,” said one scout who designated Chase Young as No. 1. “Well-built. Explosive runner. Guy makes plays. He’s not an Alpha dog. That’s OK as long as the ‘mike’ can run it.” Divinity called the defense before the suspension and the more experienced Jacob Phillips played an instrumental role next to Queen. “He’s not going to be Ray Lewis mentality,” another scout said. “It hasn’t been his thing to this point because he’s only been a one-year starter. Had he started for more than one year I think he would have grown into that role more.” Queen started just 16 games in three seasons, finishing with 131 tackles (17 ½ for loss), four sacks and no forced fumbles. He posted a Wonderlic of 24. “Divinity made the calls,” said a third scout. “That’s why it took so long for Queen to get on the field. He’s a smart kid but he’s not very vocal.” Queen is from Ventress, La. “He is a straight-line fast guy,” said a fourth scout. “Besides that, I don’t think he does much well. He’s not very athletic in space. He doesn’t break down well. He misses a ton of tackles. Not physical at all taking on and getting off blocks. I don’t think he has great instincts. In coverage, he kind of drops to spots. He’s not a man-cover athlete for being that size.”

4. ZACK BAUN, Wisconsin (6-2 ½, 238, 4.68, 1-2): Baun redshirted in 2015, backed up in ’16 and missed all of ’17 with a Lisfranc tear in his left foot. “I got guys that don’t like him but I like how he plays,” one scout said. “He’s a pretty smart dude. I like the way his motor’s always running. He’s got good hands to stack. He works to capture the edge. Size gives him a few issues. Too productive not to get drafted high.” Baun started at OLB in a 3-4 defense the past two seasons and played off the ball at the Senior Bowl, where he is listed here. “He’s going to essentially change positions,” said another scout. “The first-round stuff is kind of crazy to me. He’s a good football player but he kind of came out of nowhere if you’ve watched last year’s tape. To take a guy in the first round at a position he’s never played is kind of bizarre. You’re not talking about a tackle playing guard. You’re talking about a defensive end playing inside linebacker. That’s a whole different world.” Baun finished with 154 tackles (30 for loss) and 15 sacks. “He’s borderline-to-small to be a 3-4 outside backer,” a third scout said. “I wrote him as a ‘sam.’ He’s tough and has good strength for a guy his size.” ESPN’s Adam Schefter cited sources saying Baun tested positive at the combine for a diluted sample stemming from excessive water intake before the weigh-in (and also reported that “under the NFL’s new CBA, it will not count as a strike against him whereas it would have under the NFL’s old CBA. Therefore, teams don’t believe it will impact his draft status much.”) Baun posted a Wonderlic of 24 and is from Brown Deer, Wis.

5. JORDYN BROOKS, Texas Tech (6-0, 240, 4.52, 2-3): Brooks moved to MLB as a senior after starting the first three seasons on the outside. “I kind of like him,” said one scout. “He can get off the spot and runs to the ball. He can chase. He can cover. He’s got exceptional quickness. He can drop his hips, change directions, explode and make a tackle in space. Modern-day linebacker. He’s top 50 for sure.” He’s the first LB mentioned by a scout when asked to pick out the heaviest hitter. He posted a Wonderlic of 10. “I don’t think (running a defense) comes natural to him, but he worked at it,” one scout said. Another scout disagreed, saying there was no way he could direct and call a defense. “No, no, no, no, no,” he said. “But he’s a good player. Real tough. He’s been hurt, we don’t have that much medical on him and he’s 5-11. I don’t like that (10 test).” Has had two shoulder operations and finished with 367 tackles (33 for loss) and seven sacks. He’s the first All-American LB for the Red Raiders since Zach Thomas in 1995. “Kind of thick, active, play-hard,” a fourth scout said. “He can do enough in the pass game.” Brooks is from Houston.

6. WILLIE GAY, Mississippi State (6-1, 243, 4.47, 3): Gay is a third-year junior with a mere six starts in 31 games. Besides an impressive 40 at the combine, his 11-4 broad jump led linebackers and his hands led at 10 ½. “He blew it up at the combine,” said one scout. “He is active. He is tough. Tries to take on. Did not see the speed and change of direction on film that he displayed with the workout numbers. He does play hard. Just thought he was an old-school, inside, one-down linebacker.” He missed eight games in 2019 for academic fraud, according to scouts, and reportedly punched a teammate (QB Garrett Shrader) in the face during the leadup to the Music City Bowl, causing Shrader to miss the game because of an orbital bone injury. “You’ve got to drop him a little for the character and off-the-field stuff,” a second scout said. “He’s not a criminal, so I don’t mind him. Some issues are terminal; some aren’t. He’s just going to be maintenance for you as a rookie.” Gay posted a Wonderlic score of 14. “Has a starter’s physical ability but doesn’t have a starter’s full package,” said a third scout. “It’s a roll of the dice on him. He’s talented, but really, really inconsistent.” Gay finished with 99 tackles (11 for loss) and three sacks. He played college ball in his hometown of Starkville, Miss.

7. LOGAN WILSON, Wyoming (6-2, 238, 4.60, 3): Wilson is just the second player in the Cowboys’ history to be a three-time captain. “Really productive almost every game you put on,” one scout said. “He’s a good athlete, and he’s got prototypical NFL size. He’s got an ability to take on and use his hands. He sees the game pretty quickly.” That personnel man viewed Wilson as a starter with a chance to play every snap given pro experience. “He’s a sleeper almost, if you will,” said another scout. “He’s really good. He’s not a physical tackler, but he is tough, big and strong. He does enough of everything that matters.” He started 52 games, finishing with 421 tackles (35 for loss), seven sacks, 10 interceptions and 24 passes defensed. “Nice feel for the game,” said a third scout. “Can break down and make space tackles. Can run and cover ground.” Wilson posted a Wonderlic of 16 and is from Casper, Wyo.

8. AKEEM DAVIS-GAITHER, Appalachian State (6-1 ½, 224, no 40, 3): He started 30 of 55 games after redshirting in 2015. “Nickel backer,” said one scout. “Athletic guy with quickness, toughness and natural football skills. Will be an excellent special-teams player. Space player. Plays hard. He’s a modern-day linebacker.” Davis-Gaither was unable to run or work out at the combine because of foot surgery in March. “Not running will hurt him,” said another scout. “Never have a problem with this type of kid. Good athletic background.” His father, Keith, is WR coach at Army. He finished with 258 tackles (28 for loss) and eight sacks. “He can run,” said a third scout. “Low 4.5’s. Really high-character kid. He’s explosive on contact. He’s the new wave of NFL backer.” Davis-Gaither is from Thomasville, N.C.

9. JACOB PHILLIPS, LSU (6-3, 229, 4.64, 4): Phillips led the national champions in tackles with 113. “He had no hype at all, but he’s actually my favorite of all these linebackers,” said one scout. “He worked out well and played hard. More physical than (Patrick) Queen. Phillips is bigger, more competitive, more physical, more instinctive, more productive. Second round.” He declared a year early after playing extensively off the bench and starting 26 games the past two years. “Fifth round,” a second scout said. “I question his level of explosion. Struggles to easily open up his hips. Doesn’t show natural feel. Needs a clean path to make plays. Just enough speed. Plays high and doesn’t use his hands around blockers.” Phillips finished with 218 tackles (13 ½ for loss) and two sacks. “He won’t last to the fifth or sixth round,” a third scout said. “He started at LSU for two years. If a guy can run a defense, a guy like that is invaluable.” Phillips is from Nashville.

10. MALIK HARRISON, Ohio State (6-2 ½, 247, 4.63, 4): Harrison is a two-year starter at WLB. “People are discounting the athlete because he’s a thumper,” one scout said. “I think he can really run. That’s where people might get it wrong. At first I thought, ‘This guy’s just a two-down ‘mike.’’ The more I watched him, I think he’s got enough juice.” Finished with 205 tackles (29 for loss), 10 sacks and 10 passes defensed. “Ran better than I think people thought,” another scout said. “Really good football player. Physical. Trouble in space breaking down. Third round.” He had a 36-inch vertical jump and is from Columbus. “We think he’s a 3-4 ‘mike’ without instincts,” said a third scout. “He looks the part. Something’s missing intangibly. He’s more flash than consistent. He can’t play ‘mike’ in a 4-3.” Added a fourth scout: “I’m not impressed with him. Too slow. Tough kid, but what you going to do with him?”