Haley, Pioli Smelling Like Herm, Carl

[Hammock Parties]

Haley, Pioli Smelling Like Herm, Carl

US Presswire		| More Two weeks ago, HBO aired top-secret Hard Knocks footage of Carl Peterson lifting his kingly posterior free of a chair and releasing the kind of odor one can only produce after failing to win a playoff game for 13 years. Through the unique smell-o-vision feature on my new television (scent is the most powerful memory trigger), I was instantly reminded of what it takes to ruin an NFL team.
I honestly thought that smell would never again define the Chiefs, at least not while Scott Pioli and Todd Haley are in charge. But after Sunday’s season opener, the stench emanating from the broadcast was undeniably familiar – someone was farting around at Arrowhead Stadium again. It’s only one game, but the 34-point beatdown the Bills laid on the Chiefs was so reminiscent of something cooked up by Peterson and Herm Edwards during their final season we can’t ignore it. It was 2008, the third year of Edwards’ tenure, and his team was supposed to be making progress. Following a rousing 33-19 win over the Denver Broncos – the first Chiefs win in 13 games – there was a glimmer of hope. That hope was destroyed a week later in Carolina. The 34-point beatdown the Panthers laid on Kansas City erased any doubts as to the degree of progress the Herm ‘N Carl Chiefs were making. There was none. A 1-10 finish to the 2008 season confirmed what everyone suspected the day the Panthers beat up on Kansas City. The Chiefs, after three years under the same general manager and head coach, were one of the worst teams in football and had no quarterback, no identity and little fan support. Do you see what’s happening here? We’re in year three of a new regime and the Chiefs are evoking memories of the previous one. Haley and Pioli are smelling a lot like Herm and Carl at this point. When a team gets blasted by 34 points after supposedly spending an entire offseason focused on one game, “The Patriot Way” echoes like the empty rhetoric behind “you play to win the game.” Here’s the really scary part – at this point, the comparisons between the regime that emptied Arrowhead and the one that was supposed to fill it back up go way beyond one game. • • • The offensive coordinator nightmare In three years, Edwards had two offensive coordinators – Mike Solari and Chan Gailey. In three years, Haley has had three offensive coordinators – Gailey, Charlie Weis and Bill Muir. In both cases, bad things have happened when the head coach couldn’t leave well enough alone and had to meddle. The Chiefs already appear to be missing Weis. US Presswire In Edwards’ case, after a relatively successful 2006 season, he felt the need to strip KC’s offense of its aggressiveness. He dumbed down the Air Coryell playbook to the point where the Chiefs stopped throwing the ball down the field and became one of the most predictable offenses in football. The results – the league’s worst running game and 31st ranked offense – were not pretty. Haley? His collaboration with Charlie Weis a year ago resulted in a completely shocking turnaround for quarterback Matt Cassel. But Haley, according to one report, felt the need to strip Weis of his playcalling duties at halftime of last season’s Wild-Card disaster, resulting in one of the worst-quarterbacked playoff games we’ve ever seen from a Chiefs passer. With Weis now gone for good, the Chiefs have suffered through a lackluster preseason and an opener in which Cassel literally set a record for inept passing. The results are not pretty, just as they weren't pretty when Haley dumped Gailey just before the 2009 regular season started. In both cases, we’re dealing with a head coach who couldn’t avoid meddling with offensive coordinators to the detriment of his team. Identity crisis There was no mistaking Edwards’ identity as a head coach. He wanted to win games with defense. Embarrassingly enough for Herm, his defense got worse and worse the longer he paced the sidelines at Arrowhead Stadium. The Chiefs allowed 315 points his first season, 335 his second, and an abysmal 440 his last. When it became obvious the Chiefs were a complete defensive disaster early in 2008, it was the biggest strike of all against Edwards. What good was he as a head coach if he couldn’t implement the most basic part of his football identity? What is Todd Haley’s identity? The passing game. From his early days as a wide receivers coach to passing game coordinator with the Dallas Cowboys to offensive coordinator with the high-flying Arizona Cardinals, Haley’s identity is throwing the football. Undoubtedly, he knows the modern NFL is being dominated by teams who can strike fear in opponents with the passing game. What’s scary about the Chiefs’ passing game? Mostly how bad it is. A year ago, the Chiefs were 30th in passing. Haley lost a playoff game because his passing game disappeared against a Baltimore Ravens team that, embarrassingly, wasn’t even particularly adept at rushing the passer. This season, Haley’s Leonard Pope-based passing game is actually making his predecessor’s look good. At least Herm, via Gailey, got the ball to Tony Gonzalez and Dwayne Bowe. In both cases, we’re dealing with a head coach who can’t implement the most vital part of his football identity. A shallow roster When Carl Peterson sat down to review his 2007 Chiefs’ roster, evidently this thought popped into his head: “Chris Terry and Kyle Turley at right tackle? That side of the line looks solid!” Peterson thought wrong. The results of his decision to enter the year with virtually nothing at right tackle – no proven starter, no quality depth - proved disastrous. The Chiefs started three different right tackles that year due to injury and performance issues. Turley was far too brittle to make it through an entire season, Terry far too awful, Svitek too inexperienced. Kansas City’s offensive line was terrible, and it proved to be the worst part of a horrible year. Thanks to Pioli, the Chiefs have a situation at safety. US Presswire But Peterson isn’t the only Kansas City football executive who can’t supply quality depth at an important position. Scott Pioli has been building his team for three offseasons, but somehow has managed to assemble a roster devoid of any real depth at the interior offensive line positions or at safety. One injury to Eric Berry has created a giant hole in Kansas City’s deep secondary. Pioli’s decision to stick with Jon McGraw and Sabby Piscitelli (already gaining fame for his ability to blow coverages after just one game) as backups appears horribly inept. McGraw's Kansas City legacy as a special teams player/defensive liability is well documented. The true horror is his new partner in crime. According to Pro Football Focus, Piscitelli was not just a bad player, but one of the ten worst safeties (including backups) in the entire league two years ago, missing more tackles (20) than any other defender in football. So why would he deserve a roster spot among "The Right 53," let alone be considered a top backup? Piscitelli is so bad, Chiefs fans on the internet have already created 37 derogatory nicknames either based on his odd name or simply his ability to miss tackles. The Chiefs’ safety position is in real trouble. While Peterson managed to make headlines by starting a special-teams player (Devard Darling) at wide receiver in 2008, Pioli may surpass him if he insists on platooning two special teams players (McGraw and Piscitelli) at starting strong safety for the balance of the 2011 season. Do we even want to contemplate what happens in the event of an injury to Casey Wiegmann, Ryan Lilja or Jon Asamoah? Pioli’s depth chart literally lists ONE player – rookie Rodney Hudson – as the backup at left guard, center and right guard. In both cases, we’re dealing with a football executive who has massively neglected the depth of a roster despite having multiple seasons to build it. • • • There’s no question at this point. Consider all the similarities, throw in an embarrassing first-round playoff loss for each regime, and two-plus years of Haley and Pioli is definitely taking on an odor not unlike Eau De Herm. How do the Chiefs pass the sniff test for the rest of the season? There are 15 more games. That’s plenty of time to turn things around. Perhaps the Chiefs' offense will be fine, Cassel will flourish and poor safety play won't destroy the defense. But things have to change quickly, and here’s why: Almost immediately after the 2008 Chiefs were blown out by 34 points, they let another team humiliate them in the next game. The Tennessee Titans took that honor after KC's bye week, 34-10. At that point there was no doubt – Carl and Herm had to go, and everything had to be blown up. You would hope we’re not at that point with this regime just yet, but a difficult game this weekend in Detroit looms large. A repeat of last Sunday, and the smell will only get stronger.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Here's what Pioli inherited:

Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe
Branden Albert
Brian Waters
Barry Richardson

Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jovan Belcher
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers

That's half of the current starters. HALF.

You can probably add Jon McGraw to that list now, too, since he's going to be a starter.

Players who Herm inherited who were starters in his third year.

Larry Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson

Herm inherited a bunch of shit that had to be replaced.

and so what, you want people to believe this team was good?

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Carl barely deserves any credit. That guy is the reason this team fell into the shitter. Nobody's saying anything about Herm deserving credit. We're talking about the Herm era.

But if we're talking credit, Kuharich should get credit for the personnel, and Herm should get credit for forcing the youth movement.

And while Herm doesn't deserve 100% credit for draft picks made during that era, he definitely deserves some. Coaches are very involved with the personnel process. Especially given that Kuharich and Herm were mostly on the same page.

Haley's a far better coach. But I've said for years and years that Herm got a lot of shit he didn't deserve, but that he was easily the best guy to start the process of turning this team around.

Herm was the best guy to turn this around because he was possibly the only coach who could **** up so badly he could get Carl fired AND land us multiple top 10 picks. So in that regard... yeah. Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom to start climbing back up and Herm was the perfect coach to put us at rock bottom.

[WhiteWhale]

Also, wasn't Belcher a UFA pick up in 2009 or was he on the practice squad in 08?

I don't remember him being here until 09.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

I agree that Haley/Pioli inherited more young talent.

A better TEAM from top to bottom? Not chance. The team never improved under Edwards. Not season to season,and not game to game. They never, at any point, showed even a slight sign of progress.

Why did we replace kennison with bradley? Was he better?

Why did we replace Hall with Eddie Drummond? Was he better?

Why did we replace Casey with Rudy Assmonger? Was he better?

Why in the blue **** did Tony Richardson NOT retire a Chief?

Allen didn't leave KC because he was a bad pick,and we made no effort at all to replace his production which resulted in the worst pass rush in NFL history.

The holdovers obviously would not have been as young, but if you replace 7 minor positions with inferior players (younger or not) and the whole team gets worse.

Herm inherited a roster with few quality young players ( Allen and DJ) but lots of solid veteran talent. Much of which he chose to run off before he found a suitable replacement.

Haley inherited a team with a half dozen guys with good potential, but most of them were underachievers. The bottom 30 though was FAR worse than what herm inherited.

That's my opinion anyway.

Herm didn't run off Jared Allen. Let's make that perfectly clear. That was 190% Carl Peterson. We all know this.

Hall didn't do anything after he left. Richardson and Casey looked like they were close to done but hung on longer than expected. Kennison was finished.

Why did these decisions happen? You could ask the same questions about why we started Bobby Wade. Or Vrabel. Or O'Callaghan.

Herm/Kuharich had zero cap space and a limited number of draft picks. You can't expect anybody to turn a team in that much disarray with ONLY the draft.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Also, wasn't Belcher a UFA pick up in 2009 or was he on the practice squad in 08?

I don't remember him being here until 09.

Yeah you're right. I was thinking of Studebaker.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Herm was the best guy to turn this around because he was possibly the only coach who could **** up so badly he could get Carl fired AND land us multiple top 10 picks. So in that regard... yeah. Sometimes you gotta hit rock bottom to start climbing back up and Herm was the perfect coach to put us at rock bottom.

Dude, that is a TOTAL load of BS. The team was a sinking ship before Herm got there. Don't act like Herm was the one who brought them there. The team hit rock bottom because between 1995 and 2007, Carl Peterson was arguably the worst drafter in the NFL. And they had the oldest roster in the NFL. And to top it all off, they made "band aid" moves for 5 years, which put them in one of the worst cap situations in the NFL.

But by all means, let's blame that on the head coach. Nevermind that the head coach was screaming up and down to tear that team apart and rebuild while our stubborn GM insisted on forcing Herm to play veterans. And yes, it's widely believed that it was Herm who forced Clark Hunt to let him blow the team up. And thank god he did.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

He didn't control personnel. I have no idea why Chiefs fans think he had 100% control over personnel but he didn't.

Its very doubtful many fans thought that, but if herm didnt have atleast a strong hand in drafting, why did he inherit a bunch of crap yet end up leaving us half of the current starters this far along into the new regime?

Count me out of the herm vs. todd debate, it is no debate imo, i'll take haley every single time as a Head Coach and i still believe in most of what he's selling, despite the fact that he HAS proven to be beyond 'meddlesome' with oc's, to this teams detriment.

Give herm his due, this team collected more talent under him in three years than in the preceding eight, you cant say he didnt strongly influence those drafts.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by scott free

Its very doubtful many fans thought that, but if herm didnt have atleast a strong hand in drafting, why did he inherit a bunch of crap yet end up leaving us half of the current starters this far along into the new regime?

Count me out of the herm vs. todd debate, it is no debate imo, i'll take haley every single time as a Head Coach and i still believe in most of what he's selling, despite the fact that he HAS proven to be beyond 'meddlesome' with oc's, to this teams detriment.

Give herm his due, this team collected more talent under him in three years than in the preceding eight, you cant say he didnt strongly influence those drafts.

Yup.

But one correction... doubt anybody is actually debating Herm vs. Haley. Haley is clearly a superior coach. And he's done a lot of really good things during his tenure. I believe what he's selling too. Frankly, I still believe that right now it's looking like the problem isn't the coach, but the QB the coach was given.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

but the QB the coach was given.

The sooner Pioli quietly admits defeat on this one, the better.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Haley is clearly a superior coach.

He should work on proving that.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Frankly, I still believe that right now it's looking like the problem isn't the coach, but the QB the coach was given.

There's definitely some truth in there, but as much as I'd like to, you can't blame 41-7 solely on the QB.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

There's definitely some truth in there, but as much as I'd like to, you can't blame 41-7 solely on the QB.

I think 41-7 was due to a coaching gamble that didn't pay off. A mistake for sure, but not one I'm going to get too hung up about. Or it could be because it's the 3rd system in 3 years. I don't really know.

I think most of us would feel pretty good if Haley can coach and start getting some stability from the QB position.

[FloridaMan88]

The #'s don't lie...

2 seasons and 1 game into the third season for the Herm/Carl regime and the Haley/Pioli regime:

Herm/Carl: 13-21 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 8 points in playoff lost)
Haley/Pioli: 14-20 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 7 points in playoff lost)

Both regimes had their only playoff seasons with the NFC West on the schedule.

The book on Haley is pretty clear now... his ego has destroyed any chance of the Chiefs attracting/retaining high quality assistant coaches and having any legit championship aspirations.

The book on Pioli is now being exposed and it is exposing Pioli as a FRAUD. Pioli's 2009 draft looks like an epic disaster and his 2010 draft has huge holes in it (see the second round draft picks). The most productive players on the roster are mostly players drafted by Carl (Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, etc.) Pioli also has yet to sign an impact free agent.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

The #'s don't lie...

2 seasons and 1 game into the third season for the Herm/Carl regime and the Haley/Pioli regime:

Herm/Carl: 13-21 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 8 points in playoff lost)
Haley/Pioli: 14-20 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 7 points in playoff lost)

TRUTH BOMB

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

The #'s don't lie...

2 seasons and 1 game into the third season for the Herm/Carl regime and the Haley/Pioli regime:

Herm/Carl: 13-21 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 8 points in playoff lost)
Haley/Pioli: 14-20 (0-1 in the playoffs, scored 7 points in playoff lost)

Both regimes had their only playoff seasons with the NFC West on the schedule.

The book on Haley is pretty clear now... his ego has destroyed any chance of the Chiefs attracting/retaining high quality assistant coaches and having any legit championship aspirations.

The book on Pioli is now being exposed and it is exposing Pioli as a FRAUD. Pioli's 2009 draft looks like an epic disaster and his 2010 draft has huge holes in it (see the second round draft picks). The most productive players on the roster are mostly players drafted by Carl (Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, etc.) Pioli also has yet to sign an impact free agent.

I'm not as worried about Haley. I still think he's a good coach, and I think he's more than capable of of running the offense. But none of this spit the time bullshit. He needs to hire a bunch of capable assistants, have his assistants coach and game plan, then he needs to take absolute control of playcalling.

Pioli's done fine with this team. This team has become pretty deep while barely spending a dime. I don't think we should overreact and say that this team is in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes. They won't end up even close. But what's pretty clear is that in year 3 of the Pioli experiment, this team isn't nearly as good as it should be, and that falls on what looks like the wrong decision in picking our QB.

The good news is, I truly think this team is a QB away from being contenders. The bad news is... well... they're a great QB away from being contenders.