Another Hermie quote that speaks volumes

[Mr. Laz]

first it was the scoring alot isn't real football it's Arena Ball.


then Herm comments about the illegal motion penalty that nullified a touchdown.

=====================
"We didn't let (Jason Dunn)get set before we went in motion," Coach Herm Edwards said. "That's what happens when you run all those shifts and motions. You have to be in tune."
=====================


yep herm .... when you run all dem dere fancy,smancy offensive plays it just means trouble.



seriously ...... instead of blaming the shifts, why don't you blame yourself for not having the team prepared to handle a pro level offense.

it's becoming increasely clear that Herm didn't want Trent Green, didn't want all the shifts and motions ...... basically just didn't want any part of the league's #1 offense that he inherited.



offense is teh debbil!!

[TEX]

That's what happens when you run all those shifts and motions. You have to be in tune."


Herm is ****ING IDIOT! Why can't he just die or something?

[splatbass]

Originally Posted by mcan

I just don't like the way the guy THINKS about football. I also don't like the way the guy throws concepts that are contrary to his philosophy under the bus.


Ask him which he would rather do:

Win a game 52-7
Win a game 17-7


I promise you that he'd take the 17-7 win. He'd consider the 52 points VULGER. That's right, VULGER! As in, IMMORAL... In fact he wouldn't even answer the question, most likely. He'd say something like, "sure it's great to score a bunch of points, throw it all over the field and take a bunch of chances with the ball... Until they intercept it and run it back for a touchdown, what then? You get up two possessions, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna ice it, take the 'W.' You don't play to score points, you play to win the game."

You PROMISE that? His record contradicts that. For example:

Oct 6, 2006 Chiefs 41 SF 0 (he didn't ice it that day, huh?)

Nov 1 2004 Jets 41 Miami 14 (he didn't ice it then either)

Dec 5, 2004 Jets 29 Texans 7 (nor then)

Dec 19, 2004 Jets 37 Seattle 14 (three times in one year!)

Oct 12, 2003 Jets 30 Bills 3

Nov 3, 2002 Jets 44 Chargers 13

Nov 17, 200 Jets 31 Lions 14

Nov 24, 2002 Jets 31 Bills 13

Dec 29, 2002 Jets 42 Packers 17

Jan 4, 2003 Wildcard Game Jets 41 Colts 0

Nov 11, 2001 Jets 27 CHIEFS 7

Nov 18, 2001 Jets 24 Miami 0

That is 12 absolute blowouts that he has coached, without shutting down his offense after getting up 2 possessions as you put it.

This is a myth about Herm that history proves wrong.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by splatbass

You PROMISE that? His record contradicts that. For example:

Oct 6, 2006 Chiefs 41 SF 0 (he didn't ice it that day, huh?)

Nov 1 2004 Jets 41 Miami 14 (he didn't ice it then either)

Dec 5, 2004 Jets 29 Texans 7 (nor then)

Dec 19, 2004 Jets 37 Seattle 14 (three times in one year!)

Oct 12, 2003 Jets 30 Bills 3

Nov 3, 2002 Jets 44 Chargers 13

Nov 17, 200 Jets 31 Lions 14

Nov 24, 2002 Jets 31 Bills 13

Dec 29, 2002 Jets 42 Packers 17

Jan 4, 2003 Wildcard Game Jets 41 Colts 0

Nov 11, 2001 Jets 27 CHIEFS 7

Nov 18, 2001 Jets 24 Miami 0

That is 12 absolute blowouts that he has coached, without shutting down his offense after getting up 2 possessions as you put it.

This is a myth about Herm that history proves wrong.

You need to get a look at Herm's total W/L record instead of cherry picking the highlights. He loses more than he wins. He took over the Jets and got 10 wins. The next year 9 wins. The next year 6 wins. Good coaches improve as they go along. Herm takes a team the other way. He is not HC material. We could use him as a DC but nothing more.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by Laz

first it was the scoring alot isn't real football it's Arena Ball.


then Herm comments about the illegal motion penalty that nullified a touchdown.

=====================
"We didn't let (Jason Dunn)get set before we went in motion," Coach Herm Edwards said. "That's what happens when you run all those shifts and motions. You have to be in tune."
=====================


yep herm .... when you run all dem dere fancy,smancy offensive plays it just means trouble.



seriously ...... instead of blaming the shifts, why don't you blame yourself for not having the team prepared to handle a pro level offense.

it's becoming increasely clear that Herm didn't want Trent Green, didn't want all the shifts and motions ...... basically just didn't want any part of the league's #1 offense that he inherited.



offense is teh debbil!!

Yes god forbid you have to practice the offense to run it.

[Logical]

Originally Posted by MOhillbilly

i dont think its as bad as KC is being made out to be in the media. yes the team has some speed needs and yeah the o-line is patch work. But i see alot of talnet on the field,atleast a hell of alot more balanced than in years past.

Dude it is just imbalanced in the opposite direction. Two quality players on an offense LJ and TGonz don't make a balanced team

[go bo]

Originally Posted by Zouk

Awesome reply. I feel thoroughly rebutted.

re-butted?

sounds kinky, tell us more...

nttawwt

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Yes god forbid you have to practice the offense to run it.

Wouldn't that require Herm to know something about offense? Probably won't happen.

[Zouk]

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

You need to get a look at Herm's total W/L record instead of cherry picking the highlights. He loses more than he wins. He took over the Jets and got 10 wins. The next year 9 wins. The next year 6 wins. Good coaches improve as they go along. Herm takes a team the other way. He is not HC material. We could use him as a DC but nothing more.

The losing record is only because he had to play his 3rd QB in his final year with the Jets. What would the Pats record be with Matt Gutierrez?

You also forgot to mention that his 4th Jets team was by far his best one - they beat the Chargers on the road in the playoffs and were a kick away from beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh to go to the AFC Championship Game.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by Zouk

The losing record is only because he had to play his 3rd QB in his final year with the Jets. What would the Pats record be with Matt Gutierrez?

You also forgot to mention that his 4th Jets team was by far his best one - they beat the Chargers on the road in the playoffs and were a kick away from beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh to go to the AFC Championship Game.

Like Herm is the only guy fighting injuries. He should have dealt with the situation. He didn't because he doesn't know how. You forgot to mention his 5th Jets team, the one that finished 4-12. The guy takes teams to new lows. He loses more than he wins. It's documented but keep flapping your gums.

[mcan]

Oct 6, 2006 Chiefs 41 SF 0
Chiefs were on fire that day. We didn't throw the ball after half time at all. They were TRYING to ice it, but we got a fumble recovery and an interception that led to a FG and an easy Larry TD run, and Dante got a punt return for a TD


Nov 1 2004 Jets 41 Miami 14
Pennington only threw 19 passes that day. They did most of this damage on the ground with TWO runners over 100 yards. They did throw long and get one early in the 3rd quarter. Chrebet's TD in the first quarter was the first TD pass that a Jets reciever had caught since week 1 that season. *this was their 8th game*


Dec 5, 2004 Jets 29 Texans 7
Texans were up 7-6 at the half. Pennington had good numbers (completed his fist 9 attempts) at the beginning, but once again Herm decided to get to the ground game in the second half to protect that 1 point lead. Curtis Martin went off for 134 yards and a TD though, and then caught a pass in the flat in the redzone that he got into the endzone on. This was not a case of an offense going for the throat. This was a case of an inept defense getting smashed by an offense that was in the tubes for a the whole month previous to this game.


Dec 19, 2004 Jets 37 Seattle 14
This game is your first good example. Pennington needed to win the confidence back of his team. He'd had a *30* quarterback rating the previous week in a loss to the Steelers. So, despite having a decent lead early in the second quarter, they continued to hit passes deep over the middle. Santana Moss had complained to the media about not getting the ball enough the week before, and so they got him 2 of Chad's 3 touchdowns. Of course, true to form, with the lead the Jets ran the ball more than twice as much as they threw it, but the TYPES of throws were different as evidenced by the gamebook, which shows numerous downfield throws, and Chad's average yards per completion was over 10 yards. That's not Herm's brand of football, but it shows what the Jets were capable of against a well coached Holmgrem team.


Oct 12, 2003 Jets 30 Bills 3
The Jets were coming out of their bye week and were 0-4. "We were desperate," (Curtis Martin after the win). However, the win was very much a defensive win. Seven Bledsoe sacks and 4 turnovers led to a couple of VERY short scoring drives of 4 yards, 18 yards, and 4 yards. They did move the ball well on the ground again, and Testaverdi was sharp with all of his 17 pass attempts for a 6.8 yard average.


The rest of these games I can't find the gamebooks of because they were so long ago. They're probably out there, I just don't want to look. Regardless, you're not really proving you're point. You're just proving that Herm has (a dozen or so times in his 103 games) put up a decent margin of victory.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...7/drz.edwards/

[mcan]

Here's the real story...

Herm Edwards' PPG averages: FOR / AGAINST
2001 Jets = 19.25 / 18.44
2002 Jets = 22.44 / 21.0
2003 Jets = 17.69 / 18.69
2004 Jets = 20.81 / 16.31
2005 Jets = 15.0 / 22.19
2006 Chiefs = 20.68 / 19.69
2007 Chiefs = 6.5 / 20.0
Career (including playoffs) = 19.1 / 19.16


*NFL PPG average = 20.64 PPG (this is both for and against)

This (20.64) is the STANDARD by which offenses and defenses should be judged on a game by game basis. Herm has only fielded one team that qualifies as a "legit" team by this measure, and that was '04 when his offense managed to "Curtis Martin" it's way to a barely better than average year. Certainly his defense was good enough that year to overcome his lack of dominating offense though, and it was his best shot at a title, as has been pointed out. He was a "kick" away.

PPG stats for recent SuperBowl winners.
2006 Indianapolis = 26.69 / 22.5
2005 Pittsburgh = 24.31 / 16.13
2004 New England = 27.38 / 16.25
2003 New England = 21.75 / 14.88
2002 Tampa Bay = 21.63 / 12.25
2001 New England = 23.19 / 17.0

[burt]

I have not given up on the season, The Chiefs or Herm. We all know it's because I am a homer. I saw an embarrassing team the first game, a better team the second game. At the beginning of the seson, I said I would be satisfied to come out of the first 4 games 1-3. I still feel that this may be the record. A very tough stretch of opponants.

With that said, I have to say, this has been a very well stated football thread, and I am honored to be a member of this board. Even though I disagree with you mcan, your stats are impressive, and irrefutable. I got Bush and support him, I got Herm and support him, regardless of statistics. I respect your bitching and complaining, especially since they are so valid. But I figure I can't change some things, so I will ride them out.....see what happens. If the Chiefs continue to play poorly, it's gonna cost me a lot of $$$....but that is my burden, not Herms.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by mcan

Here's the real story...

Herm Edwards' PPG averages: FOR / AGAINST
2001 Jets = 19.25 / 18.44
2002 Jets = 22.44 / 21.0
2003 Jets = 17.69 / 18.69
2004 Jets = 20.81 / 16.31
2005 Jets = 15.0 / 22.19
2006 Chiefs = 20.68 / 19.69
2007 Chiefs = 6.5 / 20.0
Career (including playoffs) = 19.1 / 19.16


*NFL PPG average = 20.64 PPG (this is both for and against)

This (20.64) is the STANDARD by which offenses and defenses should be judged on a game by game basis. Herm has only fielded one team that qualifies as a "legit" team by this measure, and that was '04 when his offense managed to "Curtis Martin" it's way to a barely better than average year. Certainly his defense was good enough that year to overcome his lack of dominating offense though, and it was his best shot at a title, as has been pointed out. He was a "kick" away.

PPG stats for recent SuperBowl winners.
2006 Indianapolis = 26.69 / 22.5
2005 Pittsburgh = 24.31 / 16.13
2004 New England = 27.38 / 16.25
2003 New England = 21.75 / 14.88
2002 Tampa Bay = 21.63 / 12.25
2001 New England = 23.19 / 17.0

Well I see a problem with your post - those aren't Super Bowl Champions. They're Arena League Champions because they scored too much.

[MahiMike]

The hits keep comin'.

Honestly, only reason to be a fan right now is to enjoy the soap opera that is Herm's team. Everyone in KC (including Carl and the players) knows this team is headed nowhere. The only one that's clueless is Herm himself. Why else would he be playing Huard over Croyle? He actually thinks his team can win ball games. Amazing.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by mcan

Here's the real story...

Herm Edwards' PPG averages: FOR / AGAINST
2001 Jets = 19.25 / 18.44
2002 Jets = 22.44 / 21.0
2003 Jets = 17.69 / 18.69
2004 Jets = 20.81 / 16.31
2005 Jets = 15.0 / 22.19
2006 Chiefs = 20.68 / 19.69
2007 Chiefs = 6.5 / 20.0
Career (including playoffs) = 19.1 / 19.16


*NFL PPG average = 20.64 PPG (this is both for and against)

This (20.64) is the STANDARD by which offenses and defenses should be judged on a game by game basis. Herm has only fielded one team that qualifies as a "legit" team by this measure, and that was '04 when his offense managed to "Curtis Martin" it's way to a barely better than average year. Certainly his defense was good enough that year to overcome his lack of dominating offense though, and it was his best shot at a title, as has been pointed out. He was a "kick" away.

PPG stats for recent SuperBowl winners.
2006 Indianapolis = 26.69 / 22.5
2005 Pittsburgh = 24.31 / 16.13
2004 New England = 27.38 / 16.25
2003 New England = 21.75 / 14.88
2002 Tampa Bay = 21.63 / 12.25
2001 New England = 23.19 / 17.0

Yeah, that's the problem with Herm Edwards. His extreme coaching philosophy of playing not to lose means the season is over before it begins. It simply CANNOT work. There is no hope of winning a SB.