MCU Meta Discussion

[DaFace]

The various movies obviously deserve their own threads once things actually start moving on them, but it seems like we should have a place just for general discussion about what they're planning. So here ya go.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by DaFace

I don't really think that's the case, but I am highly skeptical that we'll ever see a run like the Thanos era. They're just trying to do too much moving forward. I'm sure 90% of it will be quality content, but I just can't imagine it all tying together so well as the first 10 years did.

I kind of like how they're going to break it up into a street level threat to team up for (shame to lose Spider-Man there...), and then a different, larger cosmic level threat.

They shouldn't even try to do Thanos again. It's already been done. The trick is going to be to get that popularity doing something different. People in general aren't all that good at change...

I mean, there's a reason there's so many remakes and not that much new content. And it ain't cause there aren't great new ideas and scripts out there.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

And yet Marvel has gone in the other direction, has it not?

T'Challa and Captain Marvel have the two biggest box office returns for solo movies. (I probably don't need to sell you on Spider-Man.)

Marvel ran lead up movies to the big finale. The question is whether that's sustainable in a post-crescendo, almost completely changed, wokeverse.

Hell, Star Wars 7 made huge gate, too. It hasn't been sustained, though, and that's the issue with franchises.

[keg in kc]

Box office for episode 9 will definitely be interesting to watch.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

Marvel ran lead up movies to the big finale. The question is whether that's sustainable in a post-crescendo, almost completely changed, wokeverse.

Hell, Star Wars 7 made huge gate, too. It hasn't been sustained, though, and that's the issue with franchises.

Ant-Man was a lead up movie too, and Captain Marvel lapped him 4 times at the box office.

You need to wrap your head around the fact that despite the fact you really do not like the actress, the character, the movie, and/or nonwhitedudes, she’s super popular right now and, whatever her next box office return is, it’s likely to be bigger than every Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man movie again. Stop making excuses for it.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Ant-Man was a lead up movie too, and Captain Marvel lapped him 4 times at the box office.

You need to wrap your head around the fact that despite the fact you really do not like the actress, the character, the movie, and/or nonwhitedudes, she’s super popular right now and, whatever her next box office return is, it’s likely to be bigger than every Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man movie again. Stop making excuses for it.

You're attempting to compare apples to undersea boulders, and doing a poor job of it.

Ant-man wasn't a lead up movie. It wasn't even one of the third phase MCU movies. It sure as heck was not one of the famous "firsts". Captain Marvel was Grrrl Power! in the MCU, just as Black Panther the first black lead.

[keg in kc]

I can't speak for Direckshun, but I'm assuming he was referring to Ant-Man and the Wasp as the lead-in, since it ended with the snap and provided the deus ex machina they used to ultimately defeat Thanos.

[keg in kc]

In somewhat related news, Marvel is evidently planning on introducing "A-Force", an all female team of Avengers. Which should really come as no surprise to no one.

Link

Team is expected to include She-Hulk (starting as a series on Disney+), Captain Marvel, Valkyrie, Jane Foster's Mighty Thor, Ms Marvel (another Disney+ series) and maybe Miss America (would fill both a Latin American and LGBTQ demo...).

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I can't speak for Direckshun, but I'm assuming he was referring to Ant-Man and the Wasp as the lead-in, since it ended with the snap and provided the deus ex machina they used to ultimately defeat Thanos.

That was a sequel to a smaller 1st movie, so it's still apples to undersea boulders.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

That was a sequel to a smaller 1st movie, so it's still apples to undersea boulders.

I get that you're trying to prove a point, but if Marvel had intended for either Black Panther or Captain Marvel to act as a lead-in to the climax of Phase 3, then I think they would have given either or both of the characters a substantial role in either Infinity War or Endgame. And they did not. So if they were lead-in movies for anything, it's Phase 4, when they become the new Avengers.

Now, did they put their release date in a window where the two Avengers movies might boost their box office numbers? Absolutely.

And they did the same thing for Ant Man and the Wasp, which is the only movie we're talking about here that actually was a lead-in to either Infinity War or Endgame.

In fact, if we are comparing apples to undersea boulders, you've managed to reverse the two. Because Ant Man and the Wasp is the only one that actually fits the argument you were trying to make, as a movie definitively leading up to Endgame, whereas the two much more successful moves were not. They actually had to shoe-horn a larger presence for both Captain Marvel and Black Panther into the movies later, because their box-office numbers so far exceeded their expectations. And both characters still had minimal roles.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I get that you're trying to prove a point, but if Marvel had intended for either Black Panther or Captain Marvel to act as a lead-in to the climax of Phase 3, then I think they would have given either or both of the characters a substantial role in either Infinity War or Endgame. And they did not. So if they were lead-in movies for anything, it's Phase 4, when they become the new Avengers.

Now, did they put their release date in a window where the two Avengers movies might boost their box office numbers? Absolutely.

And they did the same thing for Ant Man and the Wasp, which is the only movie we're talking about here that actually was a lead-in to either Infinity War or Endgame.

In fact, if we are comparing apples to undersea boulders, you've managed to reverse the two. Because Ant Man and the Wasp is the only one that actually fits the argument you were trying to make, as a movie definitively leading up to Endgame, whereas the two much more successful moves were not. They actually had to shoe-horn a larger presence for both Captain Marvel and Black Panther into the movies later, because their box-office numbers so far exceeded their expectations. And both characters still had minimal roles.

I'm not sure why you're making me repeat the obvious, but here goes.


First female lead/First black lead

v.

Sequel to small first movie.


Panther right before Infinity War #1 a/k/a lead up movie
Marvel right before Infinity War #2 a/k/a lead up movie
A & W stuck in between Infinity War #1 and Marvel, thus NOT a lead up movie

And, obviously, you're still trying to make his argument about the second Ant man movie, when his post named the first.

[Direckshun]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

You're attempting to compare apples to undersea boulders, and doing a poor job of it.

Ant-man wasn't a lead up movie. It wasn't even one of the third phase MCU movies. It sure as heck was not one of the famous "firsts". Captain Marvel was Grrrl Power! in the MCU, just as Black Panther the first black lead.

Ant-Man & the Wasp absolutely was a lead-in movie. You don't have Endgame without that flick. And like I said, Cap & Black Panther lapped that film.

You're not entirely wrong in your points though, but you think those points are some kind of excuses, rather than doing what Marvel was made to do: give audiences what they want. Marvel made something in those two movies that you're portending doom about that audiences wanted to see. Audiences wanted to see a female lead wreck shit. There was a huge desire to see a nonwhite lead as well after a decade of Hero's Best Friend.

But you're completely discounting the fact that those movies, especially Black Panther, were actually super good. I can hear arguments about Captain Marvel, but Thor 2 it was not.

Is the movie going to be appealing to audiences? Will it deliver something they'll want?
Is the movie good?

Both movies answered the bell, and I suspect will continue to do so. And let's face it, the white dudes that are predicting that all this diversity will collapse the MCU inward are wrong. Diversity won't collapse it, crappy movies, if and when they come, will.

[Bowser]

A preview of Phase 4 -

https://youtu.be/hFRDkSR2OEo


(is anyone else having problems embedding videos?)

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by Bowser

A preview of Phase 4 -

https://youtu.be/hFRDkSR2OEo


(is anyone else having problems embedding videos?)

[mnchiefsguy]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Ant-Man & the Wasp absolutely was a lead-in movie. You don't have Endgame without that flick. And like I said, Cap & Black Panther lapped that film.

You're not entirely wrong in your points though, but you think those points are some kind of excuses, rather than doing what Marvel was made to do: give audiences what they want. Marvel made something in those two movies that you're portending doom about that audiences wanted to see. Audiences wanted to see a female lead wreck shit. There was a huge desire to see a nonwhite lead as well after a decade of Hero's Best Friend.

But you're completely discounting the fact that those movies, especially Black Panther, were actually super good. I can hear arguments about Captain Marvel, but Thor 2 it was not.

Is the movie going to be appealing to audiences? Will it deliver something they'll want?
Is the movie good?

Both movies answered the bell, and I suspect will continue to do so. And let's face it, the white dudes that are predicting that all this diversity will collapse the MCU inward are wrong. Diversity won't collapse it, crappy movies, if and when they come, will.

Ant-Man and the Wasp was not a true lead in movie...but it's post credit scene was. The post credit scene completely sets up Endgame. Nothing else about the movie sets up anything at all.

Diversity will not crash the MCU, but too much politics and political correctness will. Captain Marvel and Black Panther both kept pc to a relative minimum and were released at optimum spots on the calendar with no competition. Ant-Man and the Wasp was released in July with much heavier competition after a lot of folks had spent their movie budget on earlier blockbusters.

Black Panther was excellent. Captain Marvel was okay---I put it about middle of the pack, maybe slightly lower. My daughter loved Captain Marvel though, showing that different demographics can view movie quality differently...and as long as Marvel can continue to speak with different demographics in the individual character movies and remain profitable, all will be good. The key is to make sure the tentpole movies...The Avengers, etc., appeal to all of the demographics, especially the nerd fans. The nerd fans are the ones who went and saw Endgames 7-8 times in theatres and pushed it over the top.

Moviegoers have shown time and time again that they don't particularly care for politics in their popcorn movies. People expect politics when the go see All the Presidents Men, they don't expect to see politics when they go see the Avengers.

Feige and Marvel have earned enough trust that they can go off the beaten path for sure. I also believe that Feige and Marvel are smart enough to course correct should they wade too deep into the pool of politics.

Marvel made Guardians of the Galaxy work. If they can do that, they can do it with pretty much any Marvel property. They just have do it in the right way.

[007]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

You're attempting to compare apples to undersea boulders, and doing a poor job of it.



Ant-man wasn't a lead up movie. It wasn't even one of the third phase MCU movies. It sure as heck was not one of the famous "firsts". Captain Marvel was Grrrl Power! in the MCU, just as Black Panther the first black lead.

Blade