Lord of the Rings - Rings of Power

[BigRedChief]

Premieres Sept. 2nd

[Megatron96]

I have not heard good things about this, unfortunately. I was kind of looking forward to it.

[ToxSocks]

I don't care about black dwarves or gay elves (lets be honest, elves are pretty gay even if they're "straight").

I didn't read any of the books nor am i invested in the lore.

I just hope they can deliver a competent story that keeps me engaged. To which i must say i am doubtful of.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I don't care about black dwarves or gay elves (lets be honest, elves are pretty gay even if they're "straight").

I didn't read any of the books nor am i invested in the lore.

I just hope they can deliver a competent story that keeps me engaged. To which i must say i am doubtful of.

I've read all the books and I still don't care if dwarves are black or elves are gay. Tolkien wasn't concerned about it either - it's immaterial to the story actually.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

GRRM has felt obligated to comment on it, actors on the show commented, casting director had to defend the casting choices, etc. You could just say you didn’t realize that Game of Thrones got heat for the exact same thing you said wouldn’t happen to Lord of the Rings. Clearly LotR would have faced similar and probably increased criticism. It’s not hard to change a viewpoint with new information.

Martin "felt obligated" lol he responded to a post on his blog, on which he is famous for interacting with fans, back in 2014.

I literally Googled "George Martin responds to lack of diversity on Game of Thrones" and half of the hits referenced that one response to a fan's post. In fact, that search doesn't even result in a full page worth of relevant links; there were some articles about stuff that had nothing to do with GoT.

Of the few legitimate articles I found, you're talking about a couple pieces by Vanity Fair and Teen Vogue along with John Boyega and Will I Am saying they aren't satisfied with the casting choices of the show (who gives a shit what they think?).

I'm sorry, man, but this just doesn't move the meter.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Martin "felt obligated" lol he responded to a post on his blog, on which he is famous for interacting with fans, back in 2014.

I literally Googled "George Martin responds to lack of diversity on Game of Thrones" and half of the hits referenced that one response to a fan's post. In fact, that search doesn't even result in a full page worth of relevant links; there were some articles about stuff that had nothing to do with GoT.

Of the few legitimate articles I found, you're talking about a couple pieces by Vanity Fair and Teen Vogue along with John Boyega and Will I Am saying they aren't satisfied with the casting choices of the show (who gives a shit what they think?).

I'm sorry, man, but this just doesn't move the meter.

Just admit you didn’t know this occurred at all. This shouldn’t be that hard. And that it’s pretty ridiculous to not think more louder criticism would have occurred with LotR given differences between almost ten years ago and now. You want to minimize GRRM but Wall Street Journal and many others picked up and wrote on the GRRM stuff and lack of diversity in general. That’s how these things start. Small then grow. And that was in 2014. Imagine the difference between now and then. And it’s not nothing when the person responsible for casting has to defend her casting choices. It would have been much louder now.

Missandie, “It definitely caused me to reflect a lot more — about race and diversity more generally," she said. "At the end of the day, if there’s ever a show on the level of Game of Thrones again, representation has to be part of the conversation from the beginning. That way, there’s no single person who has to represent every other person of color."

I’m not saying it was some huge trending scandal. It occurred despite not really having a leg to stand on given the source material. It would have been much louder and at the forefront had LotR done similar. I don’t think it’s good or bad, just the way it is, and they made a choice to accept one source of criticism over another.

[AdolfOliverBush]

If the "diversity" of the cast bothers you, take comfort in knowing that the humans in LOTR are almost exclusively white. That means pretty much all minorities were exterminated before "Fellowship of the Ring". Get out your Jergens and enjoy!

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Just admit you didn’t know this occurred at all. This shouldn’t be that hard. And that it’s pretty ridiculous to not think more louder criticism would have occurred with LotR given differences between almost ten years ago and now. You want to minimize GRRM but Wall Street Journal and many others picked up and wrote on the GRRM stuff and lack of diversity in general. That’s how these things start. Small then grow. And that was in 2014. Imagine the difference between now and then. And it’s not nothing when the person responsible for casting has to defend her casting choices. It would have been much louder now.

Missandie, “It definitely caused me to reflect a lot more — about race and diversity more generally," she said. "At the end of the day, if there’s ever a show on the level of Game of Thrones again, representation has to be part of the conversation from the beginning. That way, there’s no single person who has to represent every other person of color."

I’m not saying it was some huge trending scandal. It occurred despite not really having a leg to stand on given the source material. It would have been much louder and at the forefront had LotR done similar. I don’t think it’s good or bad, just the way it is, and they made a choice to accept one source of criticism over another.

Sure, if it makes you feel better. I told you I had to Google it. I thought that was a tacit admission that I was unaware of much criticism.

That wasn't my argument though. I already told you an article or two here and there isn't much of a bar. I was specifically talking about outrage and scandal:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

The LoTR trilogy came out less than 20 years ago. The Hobbit trilogy came out within the last 10 years.

I don't recall a lot of outrage or scandal with either of those so I doubt there would have been much for this show.

I watched Game of Thrones and loved it. My gf who is not white watched it and loved it. I was put on the show by my two roommates, neither of which (whom?) were white. One of them had three brothers who also loved the show. My dad is black af and he loved the show (he also loved LoTR).

I'm pretty plugged in to the streets. I've had so many discussions about the show and not a single one ever mentioned the lack of diversity.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

I'm pretty plugged in to the streets. I've had so many discussions about the show and not a single one ever mentioned the lack of diversity.

Ah, this is your error. I'm not sure I've ever encountered a black person who complained about diversity in a TV show or movie.

It's usually whiny whites doing the whining about diversity or representation.

[staylor26]

My problem with this isn’t that they have black elves or dwarves, it’s that it feels forced and inorganic.

For instance, The Batman has a black Catwoman and Commissioner Gordon, but watching the trailer and knowing Matt Reeves and those 2 actors, he didn’t cast them because they were black. They’re logical castings.

I feel the same way about Idris Elba being 007. That’s a great casting if it happens.

But when I heard the rumors that DC/WB wanted to make a “black Superman movie” with Michael B. Jordan, it sounded terrible before it even started.

If you’re going into it thinking “I want to have black dwarves and elves”, it’s likely more about your politics than coming from a place of trying to make something good. Race shouldn’t matter.

I get the sense that whoever is running this show did it purposely, which is always a red flag.

There’s natural diversity, and then there’s diversity for the sake of diversity.

It doesn’t bother me to the point that I can’t still enjoy the show, but it gives me concerns that the show won’t be good.

I’d love for them to prove me wrong.

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider

Ah, this is your error. I'm not sure I've ever encountered a black person who complained about diversity in a TV show or movie.

It's usually whiny whites doing the whining about diversity or representation.

I mentioned earlier that I think the crowds you run in probably have an effect on what's loudest to you.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by staylor26

If you’re going into it thinking “I want to have black dwarves and elves”, it’s likely more about your politics than coming from a place of trying to make something good. Race shouldn’t matter.

I get the sense that whoever is running this show did it purposely, which is always a red flag.

There’s natural diversity, and then there’s diversity for the sake of diversity.

it gives me concerns that the show won’t be good.

I hear that.

[mr. tegu]

Honestly I would rather see an entire group of elves or dwarves or whatever made up of a different race as opposed to token ones here and there. That feels more natural just given how small geographically isolated populations work. I liked how Wakanda and Black Panther was in that regard.

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by ThaVirus

Sure, if it makes you feel better. I told you I had to Google it. I thought that was a tacit admission that I was unaware of much criticism.

That wasn't my argument though. I already told you an article or two here and there isn't much of a bar. I was specifically talking about outrage and scandal:



I watched Game of Thrones and loved it. My gf who is not white watched it and loved it. I was put on the show by my two roommates, neither of which (whom?) were white. One of them had three brothers who also loved the show. My dad is black af and he loved the show (he also loved LoTR).

I'm pretty plugged in to the streets. I've had so many discussions about the show and not a single one ever mentioned the lack of diversity.

Yeah in the real world normal people don’t care much about things like this. Normal people who talk to other people in real life definitely are not a good barometer for useless internet criticism occurring.

[Otter]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I don't care about black dwarves or gay elves (lets be honest, elves are pretty gay even if they're "straight").

I didn't read any of the books nor am i invested in the lore.

I just hope they can deliver a competent story that keeps me engaged. To which i must say i am doubtful of.

They're doing a remake and many of us read the books and watched the original movies. Show some respect to the original if you're going to use the title.

I read both Wiseguy and watched Goodfellas. One of my favorite stories of all time.

How about if someone remade the story with Robert De Niro's character as a cross dresser, Joe Pesci's character as a flaming gay (ala Richard Simmons), Henry Hill as a transvestite, and Big Paulie as a crippled bi-sexual.

Respect the lore if you're going to use the title or don't piggyback off it.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Otter

Respect the lore if you're going to use the title or don't piggyback off it.

They just need a vessel to carry their message to the masses...