New Conference re-alignment thread

[Saulbadguy]

The old one has AIDS.

Anyways, Chip Brown from Orangebloods.com reports OU may apply to the Pac-12 by the end of the month.

Oklahoma will apply for membership to the Pac-12 before the end of the month, and Oklahoma State is expected to follow suit, a source close to OU's administration told Orangebloods.com.

Even though Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said Friday the Pac-12 was not interested in expansion at this time, OU's board of regents is fed up with the instability in the Big 12, the source said.

The OU board of regents will meet within two weeks to formalize plans to apply for membership to the Pac-12, the source said.

Messages left Sunday night with OU athletic director Joe Castiglione and Oklahoma State athletic director Mike Holder were not immediately returned.

If OU follows through with what appears to be a unanimous sentiment on the seven-member Oklahoma board of regents to leave the Big 12, realignment in college athletics could be heating back up. OU's application would be matched by an application from Oklahoma State, the source said, even though OSU president Burns Hargis and mega-booster Boone Pickens both voiced their support for the Big 12 last Thursday.

There is differing sentiment about if the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors are ready to expand again after bringing in Colorado and Utah last year and landing $3 billion TV contracts from Fox and ESPN. Colorado president Bruce Benson told reporters last week CU would be opposed to any expansion that might bring about east and west divisions in the Pac-12.

Currently, there are north and south divisions in the Pac-12. If OU and OSU were to join, Larry Scott would have to get creative.

Scott's orginal plan last summer was to bring in Colorado, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and put them in an eastern division with Arizona and Arizona State. The old Pac-8 schools (USC, UCLA, Cal, Stanford, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington and Washington State) were to be in the west division.

Colorado made the move in June 2010, but when Texas A&M was not on board to go west, the Big 12 came back together with the help of its television partners (ABC/ESPN and Fox).

If Oklahoma and Oklahoma State were accepted into the Pac-12, there would undoubtedly be a hope by Larry Scott that Texas would join the league. But Texas sources have indicated UT is determined to hang onto the Longhorn Network, which would not be permissible in the Pac-12 in its current form.

Texas sources continue to indicate to Orangebloods.com that if the Big 12 falls apart, the Longhorns would consider "all options."

Big 12 commissioner Dan Beebe held an emergency conference call 10 days ago with league presidents excluding Oklahoma, Texas and Texas A&M and asked the other league presidents to "work on Texas" because Beebe didn't think the Pac-12 would take Oklahoma without Texas.

Now, it appears OU is willing to take its chances with the Pac-12 with or without Texas.

There seemed to be a temporary pause in any possible shifting of the college athletics' landscape when Baylor led a charge to tie up Texas A&M's move to the Southeastern Conference in legal red tape. BU refused to waive its right to sue the SEC over A&M's departure from the Big 12, and the SEC said it would not admit Texas A&M until it had been cleared of any potential lawsuits.

Baylor, Kansas and Iowa State have indicated they will not waive their right to sue the SEC.

It's unclear if an application by OU to the Pac-12 would draw the same threats of litigation against the Pac-12 from those Big 12 schools.

Stay tuned.

[Prison Bitch]

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

If I'm the B1G, I only want ku basketball, all other sports - hard pass

BIG needs Kansas basketball more than Kansas basketball needs the BIG. There’s literally zero basketball benefit to us playing a BIG schedule. They’d benefit far more, esp with all that wintertime TV inventory.

So, something like paying KU $30m per year in exchange for us to play with you hoops only. Sounds about where it would land.

[TribalElder]

KK is a ****ing idiot

[Eleazar]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

He sad

Following is a complete list of all the programs that have had more success after leaving @Big12Conference.
1.__________
2.__________
3.__________
4.__________

The list is identical for fans that have enjoyed it more.

— kevin kietzman (@kkhasissues) July 21, 2021

That much is true, but will anyone be saying that in two or three years, when the schools that left will still be in major conferences in whatever is going to replace the NCAA, and not out in the cold?

Like Nebraska will wish they were still in the… wherever the Big 12 remnants like KSU end up?

[KChiefs1]

The Athletic:

As for the Big 12’s eight remaining schools, what future awaits them? They can stay to fight the fire. Or they can choose to run like hell.

The fate of the conference comes down to an element that has been historically elusive over its 26-year existence, something its two powerhouses just shattered:

trust

Can these eight schools stick together and operate with a shared belief that staying aligned puts more options on the table? Or does self-interest eventually win out, leading them to go off on their own and do whatever they can to find a secure new home?

The every-man-for-himself mentality is understandable. The decision-makers at Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Oklahoma State, TCU, Texas Tech and West Virginia must feel a sense of urgency to establish an escape plan as fast as possible in case the conference collapses. Their nervous fan bases expect bold leadership. Their board members will apply pressure. These athletic directors have to do their job and see what’s out there. The potential cost of inaction is legitimately scary.

But sources inside and outside the Big 12 agree the more prudent course of action for these schools, at least right now, is banding together and focusing their efforts on plotting a path to long-term survival for their Power 5 league.

In their first substantive discussions about moving forward without Texas and Oklahoma last Thursday night, Big 12 presidents and ADs agreed on that imperative. The hard question is knowing how many of them meant it. Can they maintain confidence in each other amid the flurry of rumors and dubious reports about certain Big 12 schools engaging in talks with other conferences?

“The thing we have to do as a league,” one source argued, “is the eight of us have to not panic when we see these rumors. We have to just do everything we can to stick together and go at this collectively as best we can.”

If they can do that, they can rebuild their scorched house. They can pursue expansion and work to reach consensus on the right combination of two, four or maybe even more new members to help resolve the massive vacancy created whenever Oklahoma and Texas do leave. If they can make the right moves, sources hope that could ideally keep them in ACC territory when it’s time for their new TV deal in 2025. The ACC distributed more than $30 million to each of its members in 2019-20, with about $23.8 million coming from TV revenue. Big 12 schools each received $37.7 million for that year plus their third-tier rights revenue. Others believe that’s far too optimistic an aim given what they’re losing.

The Big 12 could go in a few directions to expand, but beyond making an appeal to Arizona and Arizona State to leave the Pac-12, there are few clear Power 5 options to poach. There are plenty of candidates worthy of consideration in the AAC, starting with UCF, USF, Cincinnati and Houston. It’s too early to know what criteria will matter most to commissioner Bob Bowlsby and the league’s board of directors, but the usual factors — alumni base, market size, football competitiveness — are a safe bet.

Presidents and chancellors tend to want prestige and research institutions in these situations. They didn’t seem to take these Group of 5 schools seriously in 2016. They don’t have the luxury of being overly picky anymore, not as they fight for survival. Those four schools would add value, and there are many more out there worth exploring. If you grant them the opportunity and the resources of a Big 12 school, recent history suggests they’ll evolve and succeed. Just ask TCU.

But there are other ways. The Big 12 could pursue more creative solutions, like a Pac-12 scheduling alliance. Less likely would be a merger with that league, sources say, but ADs in the conference are throwing around all sorts of ideas these days in search of smart solutions to their predicament.

By sticking together, they can also enjoy the substantial sums of money Texas and Oklahoma will owe and the revenue shares those two won’t receive. Big 12 sources still firmly believe Texas and Oklahoma aren’t leaving until 2023 at the earliest. There’s no point in projecting how the exit negotiations will play out, but as one source reminded, “It’s gonna cost them a shit ton of money.”

And if the rest choose to stay together, they should be able to retain the Big 12’s Autonomy 5 status in a time of intense unpredictability for the future of college athletics. You don’t want to be on the wrong side of that divide. The AAC aiming to add Big 12 members is an admirable ambition. Their revenue payout to their football members for 2019-2020 averaged just under $5 million. It’s hard to imagine any current Big 12 member can get by on that kind of money, not without drastically slashing budgets and staff.

Beyond that, who besides Texas and Oklahoma can even afford to break the Big 12 grant of rights contract and pay massive financial penalties? “You can’t rush and make stupid moves along the way,” one source said. So the view inside the Big 12 is, while they’re not going to sit back idly, they have time to solve these problems before 2025. But not without cooperation.

“It’s not like there’s infighting among these eight,” one source said. “But I’m not saying in six months that might not become an issue.”

These presidents and ADs surely won’t wait that long to explore alternatives. But they’re probably not going to be thrilled by what they find out. What value would these remaining schools bring to the Pac-12, Big Ten or ACC? That’s a tough question that will seriously test whether internal perception is in line with reality.

West Virginia pursuing a more natural fit and trying to get into the ACC would certainly make sense. There’s an argument to be made that the rest should throw themselves at the ACC and Pac-12, pitching the value of planting their flag in the Texas market. The ACC is incentivized to make a move that lets them reopen the 20-year deal with ESPN that threatens to create a serious financial gap for the conference.

At the moment, though, industry sources believe the Big Ten is skeptical of the value these remaining Big 12 schools provide or that their presidents would consider them academically suitable institutions. There’s already a fear among the remaining schools, too, that the Pac-12 won’t look to add them either due to similar academic standards.

That’s not to say those conferences can’t change their stance in the months and years ahead. Maybe the threat of the SEC becoming even more powerful does set off a domino effect of some kind for their anxious Power 5 peers. But if those conferences don’t wish to step in to rescue these Big 12 members beyond the logical West Virginia-ACC pairing, that puts them in a desperate position.

They’re going to have to fight an underlying fear, too, at least in football: If the Big 12 does stay intact and calls up a few Group of 5 schools, will it be good enough? The hard thing will be anticipating and confronting how much they will have lost in terms of reputation, respect and revenue once Oklahoma and Texas are officially gone. Sure, the conference can gain some of it back by getting its champion into 12-team College Football Playoff fields and winning on that stage. But it’s difficult to forecast things like how much the next TV deal truly sets them back or how recruits will perceive this new-look league.

So suppose TCU has an opportunity in the Pac-12 or the Big Ten becomes enamored with Kansas basketball. Can any of these schools really afford to say no? This tricky dynamic is sort of like the prisoner’s dilemma: Acting in their own interest is unlikely to yield the optimal outcome for all, but they don’t know that. And this is eight decision-makers having to cooperate, not two. There are so many possible outcomes — and ways this can go poorly.

The hope among Big 12 sources is that, unlike past rounds of realignment, nobody concludes this is doomed and panics. In these tense times, we’ll see how long the fragile trust can endure.

Each of the eight eventually has a decision to make: Do you grab the extinguisher or the flamethrower?

Catch up with our coverage so far.

» Jason Kersey on Texas, Oklahoma giving Big 12 notice, officially starting process of leaving for SEC, shaking up college football
» Max Olson on the key to realignment survival for the Big 12's remaining eight schools: trust
» Jason Kersey and Sam Khan Jr. on how the departures of cornerstones Texas and Oklahoma mark the end of the Big 12 as we know it
» Chris Vannini on how conference realignment is taking away what we love about college football
» Andy Staples on why the Big Ten should consider raiding its old friend, the Pac-12
» Seth Emerson and Chris Vannini on how a 16-team SEC might approach divisions
» Nicole Auerbach and Allan Taylor on West Virginia's long-held fondness for the ACC coming back to the surface
» Matt Fortuna on how SEC commissioner Greg Sankey's true motives for supporting a 12-team Playoff coming to light
» Nicole Auerbach on the case for the AAC to come after the Big 12, not the other way around
» Stewart Mandel makes the case that Oklahoma doesn't need to tether itself to Texas
» Scott Dochterman on why the Big Ten must act quickly as we perhaps enter a new phase of nationwide realignment
» The Athletic's SEC writers react to the news
» Matt Fortuna on the evolving task ahead of new ACC commissioner Jim Phillips
» Ari Wasserman on what the addition of Texas and Oklahoma would mean for recruiting in the SEC
» Max Olson on how the Big 12 was blindsided by the report of Texas and Oklahoma looking into joining the SEC
» Seth Emerson on why mixed feelings about the news around the SEC are understandable
» Stewart Mandel’s conference realignment FAQ

[Kiimo]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

He sad

Following is a complete list of all the programs that have had more success after leaving @Big12Conference.
1.__________
2.__________
3.__________
4.__________

The list is identical for fans that have enjoyed it more.

— kevin kietzman (@kkhasissues) July 21, 2021

Holy Hat Take

[Kiimo]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

BIG needs Kansas basketball more than Kansas basketball needs the BIG. There’s literally zero basketball benefit to us playing a BIG schedule. They’d benefit far more, esp with all that wintertime TV inventory.

So, something like paying KU $30m per year in exchange for us to play with you hoops only. Sounds about where it would land.

KU basketball goes to the B1G in exchange for KU football going as well.

[Prison Bitch]

Tape loop currently running in Rust Shack’s fevered imagination:

Kansas and Iowa State upon joining the Big Ten pic.twitter.com/V9BvJMGEjY

— Ben Stevens (@BenScottStevens) July 26, 2021

[Mr. Plow]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

Tape loop currently running in Rust Shack’s fevered imagination:

Kansas and Iowa State upon joining the Big Ten pic.twitter.com/V9BvJMGEjY

— Ben Stevens (@BenScottStevens) July 26, 2021

[Sassy Squatch]

Conference 7/26/2021 12:55:00 PM

Statement from the Big 12 Conference
Story Links

Today the Big 12 Conference received notice from University of Oklahoma President Joe Harroz and University of Texas President Jay Hartzell that their universities do not intend to extend their Grant of Rights when the current agreement expires on June 30, 2025.

“Although our eight members are disappointed with the decisions of these two institutions, we recognize that intercollegiate athletics is experiencing rapid change and will most likely look much different in 2025 than it does currently,” stated Commissioner Bob Bowlsby. “The Big 12 Conference will continue to support our member institutions’ efforts to graduate student-athletes, and compete for Big 12 and NCAA championships. Like many others, we will use the next four years to fully assess what the landscape will look like in 2025 and beyond. The remaining eight institutions will work together in a collaborative manner to thoughtfully and strategically position the Big 12 Conference for continued success, both athletically and academically, long into the future.”

[MGRS13]

The big 12 isn’t a sinking ship, it’s the ****ing uss arizona. If ku and Iowa state can go to the big 10 they should be blowing on the ink to make sure it drys. Baylor TT and OKS and kstate better hope they are lucky enough to end up in the pac 12. I fear for kstate this is the beginning of the end.

[displacedinMN]

Originally Posted by MGRS13

The big 12 isn’t a sinking ship, it’s the ****ing uss arizona. If ku and Iowa state can go to the big 10 they should be blowing on the ink to make sure it drys. Baylor TT and OKS and kstate better hope they are lucky enough to end up in the pac 12. I fear for kstate this is the beginning of the end.

Merge the Big 12 and the AAC?

or Big 12 and WAC?

[kepp]

Originally Posted by RustShack

Ugh, "Bowlsby" is a name I HAVE NOT missed since moving to the SEC. The SEC moves forward while the Big12 sits still and then scrambles to control damage.

[Mizzou_8541]

Originally Posted by Prison Bitch

BIG needs Kansas basketball more than Kansas basketball needs the BIG. There’s literally zero basketball benefit to us playing a BIG schedule. They’d benefit far more, esp with all that wintertime TV inventory.

So, something like paying KU $30m per year in exchange for us to play with you hoops only. Sounds about where it would land.

Ku to ACC makes more sense to me. Seems like a great basketball fit.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Mizzou_8541

Ku to ACC makes more sense to me. Seems like a great basketball fit.

Big East makes even more sense. Dominant basketball centric conference that puts little to no value on a football program.

[ChiefsCountry]

KU football program letting Nebraska, Wisconsin or Iowa getting fat on wins is what the Big Ten needs as well. You don't always need 500 pound gorillas, you need something for them to eat as well.