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View Poll Results: Who would win in a fight between Bruce Lee and Mike Tyson in his prime? | |||
Bruce Lee |
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264 | 62.41% |
Mike Tyson |
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159 | 37.59% |
Voters: 423. You may not vote on this poll |
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#856 | |
Quit your bullshit
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Boxers are mindless oafs, but 'martial artists' are ninja wizards. |
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#857 | |
In Search of a Life
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Tyson is in the new Ip man 3. Reviews so far said he did a nice job even though he has the voice of a 10 year old girl with a cold. He even speaks Cantonese in the film. The fight seen between him and Ip man would probably be the closest we will ever see to something with Lee - since Ip Man was considered one of the best of his era and trained Lee. Of course Lee went on to train with lots of Masters in all kinds of self defense techniques-including boxing, fencing and used that to develop his own art form. |
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#858 | |
left blank intentionally
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#859 | |||||
On to Baltimore
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Wall 'o text
I've already said I think Tyson would win a boxing match, but that is his area of expertise. It's too easy to dismiss Lee's fighting ability because he was also an actor that didn't fight anyone professionally. He never even wanted to get into the fight game, but he did fight some skilled fighters. Here's an eyewitness account of a boxing match with an amateur boxing champ while they were both in high school (a boxer named Gary Elms):
This is from a classmate of Gary Elms'(Rolf Clausnitzer) Quote:
More on the Elms fight: Quote:
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Ring: Tyson Mat: Tyson Octagon: Lee Cage: Lee Pretty much a push for me. I think the MMA match would kinda look like the latest Dillashaw/Cruz tilt, with Lee playing the part of the hard to hit Cruz.
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#860 | |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Moreover, it's just absurdly disingenuous to compare Tyson before prison to Tyson after. The guy that lost to Lewis and Holyfield was a shell of himself. Nobody - absolutely nobody - will ever argue that Tyson had one of the greatest careers in boxing. He didn't - he wasted an incredible amount of talent and really stopped developing by the time he was about 21-22 yrs old. But even by then, he'd become an absolute force. Yeah, the 80s were a shit time for heavyweight fighting, but Tyson's skills during that era were simply inarguable. He wasn't some slug like Listo keeps trying to argue and yes, Tyson in his prime absolutely would've crushed Marciano - who fought in an era where defense didn't matter and picked on guys who were part-time fighters, Ali - a gimmicky fighter who couldn't have stood up to Tyson's power and who couldn't have just outlasted him like he did an out of shape Foreman. Foreman was the lumbering oaf you're trying to paint Tyson as who probably couldn't have even gotten a glove on him (though I think Foreman's probably the hardest puncher we've seen). Maybe Foreman could've baited an older Tyson into a slugfest, but a 21 yr old Tyson would've just toyed with him. Prime Frazier, OTOH, I think would've given him a damn tough fight. They say styles make fights and Frazier's absolutely a guy that could've given Tyson some trouble. He was very similar to Tyson in how he moved and would look for those windows to nail you with a hook. Frazier wasn't the athlete Ali was but he was more technically sound and more powerful. Ali had the better career than Frazier, but I think Frazier is the tougher matchup for Tyson.
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#861 |
In Search of a Life
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Lee Vs. Norris Way of the Dragon
http://www.spike.com/video-clips/roh...s-chuck-norris YES THIS IS A MOVIE FIGHT-probably one of the best ever recorded for a movie at that time. This shows each fighters techniques in regular speed and a slow motion view-which highlights Lee's footwork. It shows many points brought up on here-Lee taking several hard strikes, Lee's speed, and breaking Norris's arm and knee-then finally a classic MMA move to end the fight. Norris is no Tyson!!!!! Yes but in his day- was a Champion and a well respected fighter. Norris was defeated in his first two tournaments, dropping decisions to Joe Lewis and Allen Steen and three matches at the International Karate Championships to Tony Tulleners. By 1967 Norris had improved enough that he scored victories over the likes of Lewis, Skipper Mullins, Arnold Urquidez, Victor Moore, Ron Marchini, and Steve Sanders. Norris would be a two time winner at S. Henry Cho's All American Championship.[14] In early 1968, Norris suffered the tenth and last loss of his career, losing an upset decision to Louis Delgado. On November 24, 1968, he avenged his defeat to Delgado and by doing so won the Professional Middleweight Karate champion title, which he held for six consecutive years.[9] In 1969, he won Karate's triple crown for the most tournament wins of the year, and the Fighter of the Year award by Black Belt magazine. Norris made history in 1990 when he was the first Westerner in the documented history of Tae Kwon Do to be given the rank of 8th Degree Black Belt Grand Master.[15] In 1999, Norris was inducted into the Martial Arts History Museum's Hall of Fame. On July 1, 2000, Norris was presented the Golden Lifetime Achievement Award by the World Karate Union Hall of Fame Lee vs Kareem - Game of Death THIS IS A MOVIE Fight- it shows how Lee overcomes a massive size disadvantage. Kareem was one of the greatest athletes of his generation and all time NBA point leader. Lee trained him. In the fight Lee-once again uses knee strikes, foot stomps, kicks in the groin and finishes the fight with a MMA choke out. Classic David vs Goliath fight. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...4E4&FORM=VIRE2 Lee vs Robert Wall - Enter the Dragon THIS IS A MOVIE FIGHT- Lee shows his speed against a strong striker and Champion. Lee shows off his amazing punching speed, elbow strike, power kicks to the head, groin kick, huge power kick to send Wall flying and finishes with a double foot stomp. Robert Alan "Bob" Wall is an American actor and martial artist. Wall is a former karate champion. Among the martial arts Bob Wall has studied Okinawa-te karate under Gordon Doversola. In 1966, Wall along with karate champion Joe Lewis opened the famous Sherman Oaks Karate Studio in Sherman Oaks, California. In 1968 Lewis sold his share https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...E26&FORM=VIRE8 Yes these are all movie fights- but it does show Lee's arsenal of kill shots. Speed, power, MMA finish moves, and bone breaking strikes to take fighters out quickly. Here is some rare footage to show it was not all Movie Magic, https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...87&FORM=VIRE15 Look at the heavy bag about to break off the chain- that is amazing power. The power in his one-inch punch. The speed and footwork. Look at him destroying some guy wearing a black belt in a live fight / tournament. Wins easily. |
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#862 |
Quit your bullshit
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Movie clips! I love this place!
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#863 | |
In Search of a Life
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Quote:
I also have to question what role Don King had in the bums he set up for Tyson. Some of these guys dropped like a loaf of bread with the first jab and even though they did not look hurt, had zero intention of standing up. Was it because of Tyson fierce style and image or were they paid off-which was a narrative that followed Don King throughout his career. Without those classic fights and wins against the Best in the division-you can't consider Tyson one of the greatest of all time-and that is the point this guy is making. |
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#864 |
In Search of a Life
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Yes and it is stated MOVIE FIGHTS. Unfortunately these and the rare footage are all we have to judge by. I am sure all the personal testimony from his students and world champions he trained with-won't matter to you guys- so I didn't include them.
You still think Lee was some kind of karate-chop actor and nothing will ever change that. ![]() |
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#865 | |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
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Quote:
But man, what I wouldn't give to drop an 19 yr old Mike Tyson into 1965 and see what happens. It wouldn't just be Ali and Frazier, but Foreman, Holmes in his prime, Ken Norton and even a guy like Quarry would've been an entertaining fight. For 15 years you'd could've had a different headline fight every single year. As for Lewis - he had a reach advantage on Tyson, to be sure, but Tyson was the heavier, stronger, more compact fighter. Remember that Tyson was operating at about 210-215 lbs at 5'10'' in his prime. For perspective, that's about the same weight Foreman and Ali carried when both men were about 5 inches taller; that's some seriously powerful, compact mass. Beyond that, Tyson's power and quickness in tight spaces allowed him to even use his shorter stature to his advantage. He'd get inside on those longer fighters and take the action to them. That's why I don't think he'd struggle with Ali as much as he would with Frazier. I think he could use Ali's length against him. It again gets back to a fundamental frustration I have in these discussions - this argument that Tyson was some fire-breathing idiot in the ring. He wasn't; Tyson had a plan and he was as calculating and savvy a technical fighter as there was during his era. The problem was that the further away he got from his training with D'Amato and the more King influenced him, the less of a boxer he became and he turned into the puncher that people will now diminish. That's not who prime Tyson was. And while I agree with the top 10 lists that won't give him credit for what he could've been had he been in a different era and/or maintained his edge longer, it doesn't take away from the greatness that he possessed in his prime.
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#866 | |
Say hello to my little friend
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#867 | |
Mostly Ignored
Join Date: Jul 2013
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Quote:
Point being, people exaggerate. That's how a lot of the Bruce Lee mystique has been built. There are no actual records or videos of a Bruce Lee fight, are there? There is video proof of actual Tyson fights, where he displays strength, scary speed for his size, and technical fighting ability. Last edited by TimBone; 01-27-2016 at 05:41 PM.. |
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#868 | |
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Excellent post. I agree-I think Tyson would fare much better in that generation than this one. Here is a discussion on Mike Tyson vs Klitschko brothers? https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...8160450AANOCQX Here is the answer right from Tyson's mouth. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...BAB&FORM=VIRE4 |
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#869 |
Mostly Ignored
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Post #861 was beautiful Halfcan, just beautiful.
I have to assume you're trolling at this point. |
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#870 | |
Sauntering Vaguely Downwards
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbia, Mo
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Quote:
Credit to Tyson - the dude's become remarkably self-aware with time. It only makes me that much more pissed off at what King did to him during the late 80s. In the rare moments you get him actually talking about boxing, you see just how smart he was in that arena. I think he's right - the Klitschko's are just such a rare combination of length and power that I don't even think Tyson could've done much with them. The best chance he would've had would've been psychological. Prime Tyson still scared the shit out of people and if Tyson would've come out with that charging, aggressive style and got the brothers going backwards at all, he could've beat 'em. But I don't think Vitali would be nervous boxing a rhinoceros. Wlad? Eh, maybe. Maybe on the right day.
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"If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags." |
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