****Our Wide Receivers Suck- Official Thread****

[Sofa King]

They can’t get open, they drop passes in their hands, their jet sweeps are slow and terrible. These guys are not good.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

There is always a dance between us dictating where the offense wants to go and also taking what the defense gives us. The defense wants to take something away, we’ll target something else. If that something else don’t stick, then we get stuck. The hope is at some point there are too many things to focus on that the offense can pick their poison.

And we haven’t been there yet consistently which is why we’ve had our share of struggles past the initial script. I don’t think we drew up plays for Justin Watson but the eagles funneled plays to him by taking everything else away. Against the raiders on the other hand the chiefs were very intentionally funneling plays to the big 3. And the raiders didn’t adapt much so we kept attacking with that formula.

Did we unlock something by finding new ways to get Pacheco and rice involved in the passing game that allows us now to pick our poison? I don’t know but I hope so. I also imagine most other teams will go back to bracketing kelce, keeping everything in front of them versus the run and with physical man coverage. Things Vegas didn’t really emphasize. So we will see where that takes us.

There's nothing at all new about Pacheco's passing game usage other than we threw him the ball. That outlet pass to the back in the flat is a staple of Andy Reid's offense since there's been such a thing, and it's almost always there. Bryan Westbrook made a career of it. It's been there all season long, we just weren't taking it.

If you've got two safeties deep against 3 WR's (or 2 TE's) and/or one deep and you're doubling Kelce, that pass to the back in the flat should be easy money. Sometimes you need to take the easy money, and that will open up other opportunities later.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

That’s how a female argues.

Especially when he uses the passive agressive emojis

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

There's nothing at all new about Pacheco's passing game usage other than we threw him the ball. That outlet pass to the back in the flat is a staple of Andy Reid's offense since there's been such a thing, and it's almost always there. Bryan Westbrook made a career of it. It's been there all season long, we just weren't taking it.

If you've got two safeties deep against 3 WR's (or 2 TE's) and/or one deep and you're doubling Kelce, that pass to the back in the flat should be easy money. Sometimes you need to take the easy money, and that will open up other opportunities later.

His persistence to overcomplicate shit like this is hialrious

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by staylor26

His persistence to overcomplicate shit like this is hialrious

It's like...anything positive has to have been some huge sea change in strategy. No, dude, they just played better, smarter football.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

It's like...anything positive has to have been some huge sea change in strategy. No, dude, they just played better, smarter football.

You keep saying this as if we weren’t funneling plays to our top targets. You’re talking what… maybe 1-2 checkdowns to Pacheco? The majority of his receptions were designed screens. The majority of Rices targets, which were way higher than ever before, were designed screens or mesh concepts designed to get him into space. Sprinkle in some throws with kelce as primary read and a lot of runs. That was probably 75% of our offense. And i believe it was one of the lowest air yards we had per attempt of any game. But yeah none of that was by design.

What else did we do? We gave skyy a few easy easy scripted targets and he made good yards out of it. We got Watson the ball after he bounced back from getting clobbered in the end zone. The one guy outside the big 3 who stepped up was Noah gray as a checkdown. That’s it. You keep saying we executed better as if to ignore that the guys making all the mistakes weren’t even targeted. Of course when you don’t throw the ball to the guys making all the mistakes they’re not going to make mistakes. Skyy/Mvs/Watson totaled 7 targets and the majority of those were quick screens or throwaways.

[old_geezer]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Blame the lights at Arrowhead for the drops?

This is neat from @DataWithBliss -- the dropped pass rate at night at Arrowhead is the only stadium/game time combination in the NFL over 10%@cheetah was right -- it's hard to catch in Kansas City at night
https://t.co/W8J9JxUgVE pic.twitter.com/7nst50hj5w

— Michael Lopez (@StatsbyLopez) November 29, 2023

I would argue that it's not hard to catch a pass at Kansas City in the night; We just need to find some receivers that can catch the damn ball.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chief Pagan

So I've mostly been in the WR suck camp but I've mostly not been in the Veach made a mistake camp.

Outside of whiffing on Skyy (every GM has busts), what were any other of his clear mistakes based on the information he had at the time?

There's a thing called a salary cap and a draft.

If Toney had been reasonably healthy, he might have won some games for us and most of you would be talking about V's brilliance. It's still certainly possible that Toney might be a game changer in the post season. Or outside of last years post season, he might be a gamble that didn't pay off.

When you are trying to have a SB level team, year after year, you can't stick with a conservative strategy even when anchored by Mahomes. Especially at Mahomes salary. You certainly can't afford to pay your SB level team market rate or only draft high floor/low ceiling players.

I guess you could have gone more all-in this year when you have CJ and Kelce and just live with rebuilding years later.

But otherwise, without hindsight, Veach has to roll the dice on all his decisions. So he went cheaper at WR. That a dice roll doesn't go his way is not automatically a 'mistake'.

This is more like a poker game where you got to play the odds. For instance, how much investment is your QB2 worth? Well, how many games in the middle of the season do you expect Mahomes to miss?

He paid a premium for Taylor at RT, but I think that was reasonable based on not having either starting tackle at the start of FA.

I don’t buy that. Veach saw the success last year on the dollar WR model and tried to replicate it. Can’t blame him too much for it. but we aren’t talking Justin Jefferson money. The issue was being cheap to the point where we’re talking about 1-3 year $10m contracts as if they’re back breaking. We haven’t even begun to tap into daddy’s credit card the way most teams do to keep the window open. We took a gamble and we probably shouldn’t have. That’s ok. Even a brilliant guy like veach isn’t infallible and we’re plenty good everywhere else that we’re still in great shape. Ok, so use our top men to adapt for now and address it in the offseason.

Sure I agree we had to pay for offensive players in some spots. I’d also suggest that our emphasis on defense, while obviously working well, also came at the expense of having to pay for offensive skill positions we couldn’t fill in the draft. We could have benefited from an additional TE (Ertz would be a hell of a get). We paid a bandaid contract to donovan smith because we haven’t drafted a starting OT. And we’re getting close to decision time on all 3 interior OL being on rookie contracts. That’s why some of us feel like we sometimes rely too much on the crutches of mahomes and Reid’s greatness, but I feel confident this offseason we’re gonna give them ingredients to cook again.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

That’s how a female argues.

You should tell us more based on your high estrogen levels and soy intake.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don’t buy that. Veach saw the success last year on the dollar WR model and tried to replicate it. Can’t blame him too much for it. but we aren’t talking Justin Jefferson money. The issue was being cheap to the point where we’re talking about 1-3 year $10m contracts as if they’re back breaking. We haven’t even begun to tap into daddy’s credit card the way most teams do to keep the window open. We took a gamble and we probably shouldn’t have. That’s ok. Even a brilliant guy like veach isn’t infallible and we’re plenty good everywhere else that we’re still in great shape. Ok, so use our top men to adapt for now and address it in the offseason.

Sure I agree we had to pay for offensive players in some spots. I’d also suggest that our emphasis on defense, while obviously working well, also came at the expense of having to pay for offensive skill positions we couldn’t fill in the draft. We could have benefited from an additional TE (Ertz would be a hell of a get). We paid a bandaid contract to donovan smith because we haven’t drafted a starting OT. And we’re getting close to decision time on all 3 interior OL being on rookie contracts. That’s why some of us feel like we sometimes rely too much on the crutches of mahomes and Reid’s greatness, but I feel confident this offseason we’re gonna give them ingredients to cook again.

Yeah, I get some of the older fans long for the days of D-FENCE!!! but not maximizing a generational talent like Mahomes is just sad.


But I guess lots of punting, mediocre football, and hoping the other team makes a mistake seem to be themes of the 2023 season.

With Mahomes in his prime I would prefer to score 35-40 a game and see if other teams can try to match.

Have the defense be fast, cheap, and young and make sure the offense can destroy people.

But now bringing back the Alex Smith plays for offense with Mahomes throwing to ???? seems to make people happy.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

It's like...anything positive has to have been some huge sea change in strategy. No, dude, they just played better, smarter football.

When zilla gets up on the stump, just forget about it and walk away lol

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Yeah, I get some of the older fans long for the days of D-FENCE!!! but not maximizing a generational talent like Mahomes is just sad.


But I guess lots of punting, mediocre football, and hoping the other team makes a mistake seem to be themes of the 2023 season.

With Mahomes in his prime I would prefer to score 35-40 a game and see if other teams can try to match.

Have the defense be fast, cheap, and young and make sure the offense can destroy people.

But now bringing back the Alex Smith plays for offense with Mahomes throwing to ???? seems to make people happy.

Meanwhile, this bundle of sticks has been shitting his pants over the Ravens, a team with a RB at QB, a rookie WR1 with the same production as Rice, and a great defense.

You honestly can't make this shit up.

[staylor26]

5 straight AFCCGs, 3 SB appearances, 2 rings, and we're in the drivers seat for the 1st seed today, but we're not "maximizing a generational talent like Mahomes".

****ing moron.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by old_geezer

I would argue that it's not hard to catch a pass at Kansas City in the night; We just need to find some receivers that can catch the damn ball.

Except

A) it's a 7 year sample size,
B) it's for BOTH teams at Arrowhead, including the away team
C) the same sample size checks out at dead average for day games at Arrowhead.

So yeah - strong theory.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Chief Ten Beers

When zilla gets up on the stump, just forget about it and walk away lol

Meh, the same can be said for all in the collective. It's just that Zilla has a different opinion from them.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Yeah, I get some of the older fans long for the days of D-FENCE!!! but not maximizing a generational talent like Mahomes is just sad.


But I guess lots of punting, mediocre football, and hoping the other team makes a mistake seem to be themes of the 2023 season.

With Mahomes in his prime I would prefer to score 35-40 a game and see if other teams can try to match.

Have the defense be fast, cheap, and young and make sure the offense can destroy people.

But now bringing back the Alex Smith plays for offense with Mahomes throwing to ???? seems to make people happy.

Exactly. Go scorched earth with Mahomes!