Science Fiction and Fantasy Books Only Thread

[Buck]

There is a great thread in the lounge about Books in general, but to be honest, all I really want to read is Sci-Fi (including post-apocalyptic), and Fantasy.

In this OP I will compile every poster's top 3 Fantasy/SciFi suggestions if they give me them. I will try to keep the posters in alphabetical order in case you want to find someone's suggestions easier.

CP POSTER SUGGESTIONS

Baby Lee
1. Fritz Lieber's Swords Against series.
2. George R.R. Martin's SoIaF series [no brainer that will probably make tons of other lists]
3. Umberto Eco, Foucalt's Pendulum [a little more obscure/forgotten to make up for GRRM]

Frosty
1.Raymond Feist - Riftwar Saga
2.Terry Brooks - Shannara series (starting with the Knight of the Word books)
3.Tad Williams - Memory, Sorrow and Thorn

Huffmeister
(1) Dune - Frank Herbert
(2) The Stand - Stephen King (1000+ page unabridged)
(3) Starship Troopers - Robert A. Heinlein (checkout the song by Yes, too. lots of great bass)

Jawshco
1. "Book of the Long Sun" by Gene Wolfe
2. "Paradise War" by Stephen R Lawhead
3. "The Dragonbone Chair" by Tad Williams

listopencil
1. Edgar Rice Burroughs, any series
2. Robert Heinlein, everything he has written in chronological order (but read Starship Troopers first)
3. Doc Smith's Lensman series

vailpass
1. The Science Fiction Hall of Fame Volume 1, 2A & 2B books are a gold mine for sampling the evolution of sci-fi. (below)
2.The Nebula Awards and Hugo Awards (selected yearly, pick a year)
3. Years Best SF Annual publication, pick any volume from 1 to the current volume 17
See Post 142

[Mennonite]

Blood is Another Name For Hunger by Rivers Solomon
And Now His Lordship is Laughing by Shiv Ramdas



I will never read a another modern Hugo nominated story. Just an absolute joke of an award.


Black God's Kiss by C.L. Moore (Good until the end)


Stardock by Fritz Lieber
The Bazaar of the Bizarre by Fritz Lieber
The Sunken Land by Fritz Lieber
The Unholy Grail by Fritz Lieber


Three of Robert E. Howard's Solomon Kane stories:

Red Shadows
Skulls in the Stars
The Right Hand of Doom

The Tale of Hauk by Poul Anderson

The Barrow Troll by David Drake (worth a read)

The Year of the Three Monarchs by Michael Swanwick



Last, and best:

Dragon Moon by Henry Kuttner. It appeared in the January 1941 issue of Weird Tales which can be read for free at the Internet Archive.

https://archive.org/details/Weird_Ta...41-01/mode/2up

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by Mennonite

I am (foolishly) determined to read all of the Hugo nominated short stories.


Oldies:

Mack Reynolds "Status Quo"
Clifford D. Simak "Desertion"
Clifford D. Simak "Huddling Place"
Orson Scott Card "The Lost Boys" (It's a ghost story)
Gary Jennings "Myrrh" (a weak horror story)
James Patrick Kelly "Itsy Bitsy Spider"
Gene Wolfe "No Planets Strike"
Robert J. Sawyer "The Hand You're Dealt"
Karen Joy Fowler "Standing Room Only"
Andy Duncan "Beluthahatchie"
Michael Swanwick "The Very Pulse of the Machine"
Bruce Sterling "Maneki Neko"


Woke era shit:

“As the Last I May Know”, by S.L. Huang
“Do Not Look Back, My Lion”, by Alix E. Harrow
“A Catalog of Storms”, by Fran Wilde
“Ten Excerpts from an Annotated Bibliography on the Cannibal Women of Ratnabar Island”, by Nibedita Sen



The Hand You're Dealt, Itsy Bitsy Spider and The Very Pulse of the Machine are probably my three favorites of the bunch. Nothing must-read or anything.



I also re-read a couple of Hugo nominees that appeared in the Science Fiction Hall of Fame anthologies:

The Moon Moth by Jack Vance. This one is ok but it needed two things: 1) a more plausible reason why the fugitive couldn't be identified and 2) a stronger closing sentence. The story reminds me of David D. Levine's Tk Tk Tk a little bit.

A Rose for Ecclesiastes by Roger Zelazny. I like this one quite a bit. This level of quality is what I'm looking for (hoping for) when I pick up an anthology of "The Best" or "Award Winning" science fiction.

A Rose for Ecclesiastes is one of the best stories I’ve ever read. Haven’t read it in many years. Thanks for bringing this one up, I’m going to read it again.

[Mennonite]

A few more Hugo nominees:

Michael Swanwick "The Dead"
Robert Reed "Decency"
John Crowley "Gone"
Michael Swanwick "Radiant Doors"
Robert Reed "Whiptail"
Michael Swanwick "Walking Out"
Poul Anderson "Marque and Reprisal"
Pat Cadigan "Angel"
Kim Stanley Robinson "Ridge Running"
Steven Gould "Rory"
Mike Resnick "Mwalimu in the Squared Circle"



Some Sword & Sorcery short stories:

Draco, Draco by Tanith Lee
The Caravan of Forgotten Dreams by Michael Moorcock
The Adventuress by Joanna Russ
Thunder in the Dawn by Henry Kuttner
Beyond the Phoenix by Henry Kuttner
Gimmile’s Songs by Charles R. Saunders
Undertow by Karl Edward Wagner
The Stages of the God by Ramsey Campbell (writing as Montgomery Comfort)
Epistle from Lebanoi by Michael Shea
Imprint of Chaos by John Brunner
Become a Warrior by Jane Yolen
Beyond the Phoenix by Henry Kuttner
The Red Guild by Rachel Pollack
Six from Atlantis by Gene Wolfe
The Howling Tower by Fritz Lieber
The Cloud of Hate by Fritz Lieber
The Sea Troll’s Daughter by Caitlín R. Kiernan
The Sword of Welleran by Lord Dunsany
The Coral Heart by Jeffrey Ford
Path of the Dragon by George R. R. Martin
The Spawn of Dagon by Henry Kuttner
The Scarlet Citadel by Robert E. Howard
The People of the Black Circle by Robert E. Howard
The Tower of the Elephant by Robert E. Howard (reread)
The Phoenix on the Sword by Robert E. Howard (reread)
Beyond the Black River by Robert E. Howard (reread)
The God in the Bowl by Robert E. Howard
Rogues in the House by Robert E. Howard
The Frost-Giant's Daughter by Robert E. Howard (reread)
Cursed Be The City by Henry Kuttner
The Citadel of Darkness by Henry Kuttner
The Lesser Evil by Andrzej Sapkowski
Wings in the Night by Robert E. Howard
Black God's Shadow by C.L. Moore
The House of Arabu by Robert E. Howard
While the God's Laugh - Michael Moorcock


Conan:



"The Scarlet Citadel" is the best Conan story I've read so far. "The People of the Black Circle" is also pretty good. They knock my previous favorite "The Tower of the Elephant" down to the number three slot. The serialized novel "The Hour of the Dragon" is supposed to incorporate a lot of story elements of "The Scarlet Citadel" so I'm very interested in reading that one to compare the two.


Elak:

I mentioned recently that I enjoyed Henry Kuttner's "Dragon Moon" so I was looking forward to reading his three other Elak of Atlantis stories. They weren't as good as Dragon Moon, but "The Spawn of Dagon" was worth a read at least. I think the characters of Elak and his sidekick, Lycon, had potential. Unfortunately, Kuttner dropped these characters for his last two S&S stories and replaced them with a bland character called Prince Raynor. The first Raynor tale is called "Cursed Be the City" and it's actually pretty good. I can't help but think it would have been better with Elak and Lycon though.

It's nice to see a hero who isn't invincible, but Kuttner takes things too far occasionally. Both Elak and Raynor have a tendency to be too ineffectual in some of the weaker stories.

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser



Lieber does a fantastic job of coming up with cool monster concepts and none of the stories I've read have been bad. But none of them have really grabbed me either. It just feels like the heroes stumble into a random (awesome) conflict, stab the bad guys, and then move on. The stories are like candy - tasty but unsatisfying. Still, they have all been run reads.


The House of Arabu:

This is a Robert E. Howard story about a barbarian who is almost Conan but not quite. A pretty good story that seems to end abruptly at first, but kind of works due to the personality of the main character.

The rest:

"Draco, Draco" by Tanith Lee and "Gimmile’s Songs" by Charles R. Saunders are the only other non Howard/Lieber/Kuttner stories here that I think are worth reading. Both are just ok.

[Mennonite]

Jirel Meets Magic by C.L. Moore
Hellsgarde by C.L. Moore

Red Nails by Robert E. Howard (reread)
Jewels of Gwahlur by Robert E. Howard
Men of the Shadows by Robert E. Howard
The Shadow Kingdom by Robert E. Howard
Exile of Atlantis by Robert E. Howard
The Slithering Shadow by Robert E. Howard
The Pool of the Black One by Robert E. Howard
The Devil in Iron by Robert E. Howard
The Man-Eaters of Zamboula by Robert E. Howard
The Valley of the Worm by Robert E. Howard
A Witch Shall Be Born by Robert E. Howard (cool crucifixion scene and a bloodthirsty villainess but the action scenes get shortchanged)
The Black Stranger by Robert E. Howard (would have been better as a non Conan, non fantasy pirate tale)
Shadows in the Moonlight by Robert E. Howard
Kings of the Night by Robert E. Howard (short on plot but lots of action. Features both Kull and Bran Mak Morn)
The Gods of Bal-Sagoth by Robert E. Howard (this story was ok, but could have used some more fantastic/weird elements. I like the two main characters)


Shadows in the Dark - Conan pastiche by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. Pretty weak.
Legions of the Dead - Conan pastiche by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter. Could have been good, but the ending is a dud.
The People of the Summit - Conan pastiche by Björn Nyberg and L. Sprague de Camp. Not good.
The Ivory Goddess - Conan pastiche by L. Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter




I've read 4 of the 6 Jirel of Joiry stories. They have been fairly repetitive so far. The first one is about Jirel wandering through a lad of magic, the second is a follow-up where she returns to the same place, and the third story is about her wandering around a new magic land. Not a lot of physical action in any of these stories. The last one I read, Hellsgarde, is the best. It doesn't have a lot of action either, but there are some imaginative weird/horror elements that make up for it.


Robert E. Howard:

I'm getting a little burned out on his stuff. Three reasons:

1) "That's RACIST!"

I'm not offended by the racial stuff so much as I am insanely bored by it. Howard is a broken record on the subject and manage to squeeze it into almost every story it seems. This man couldn't give you a recipe for sugar cookies without slipping in a half dozen references to "degenerate Toll House cookies, tainted by dark chocolate chips."

2) He writes with "panther like quickness"!

If you read pulp stuff or old western novels you will see a lot of hack writers describe their characters as moving with "cat like quickness" or of having "the grace of a panther." It's one of the laziest, most unimaginative ways to describe a character, imo. Well, when Robert Howard was a kid his See and Say toy must have been stuck on 'Kitty' because the only ****ing similes and metaphors he can come up with to describe Conan are feline related. Over and over again - sometimes twice within the same paragraph. I know that sounds like a silly thing to complain about but imagine reading the Master and Commander books if the only way Patrick O'Brian could describe the ocean was as a "wine dark sea."

3) Civilization vs Barbarism

This is a theme that he returns to often but he never really writes a story that actually explores the topic. Shit, 90% of the characters in these stories are barbarians and the other 10% are giant snakes so it's kind of hard to understand the point he's trying to make. Either write a story to do the topic justice or drop the constant references to Conan being awesome because of his "pure elemental barbarism."

I'm gonna take a little break from the Conan stuff and then come back to read "Hour of the Dragon." I think I've probably just read too many of Howard's stories back to back and his faults have become too noticeable.


Next I read:




This was a recommendation from my local bookstore owner. It's a ten part series and I can't tell for sure yet how I'm going to like it but book one was ok. My favorite part was the battle on the staircase.

Book 2:



Still pretty good. It ends in a way that makes me eager to check out book 3.


Book 3:



The mystery deepens. And deepens. And then deepens some more. A lot of twist and turns and borders on getting a little too confusing but it still holds together. Maybe a little too talky but still interesting.

[Mennonite]

And this is where they lost me. You know how at the end of old detective books and movies the investigator will get all of the suspects into a room and then lay out, in exacting detail, what really happened? Well, this entire book feels like one of those scenes. For every part of the story that contains action there are three parts that explain what is happening and how it fits in with the previous three books.

Problems with the series:

1) Everything is a mystery. This is a problem with a lot of Fantasy fiction. Writers just do not know when to stop compounding mystery on top of mystery. Not every character has to have a mysterious background. It doesn't make sense for every character to hide useful information from the protagonist, only to reveal it after it could do him the most good.

2) "What just happened?" Various fantastic and mysterious things happen without an immediate explanation. Which is fine. The problem is that when (if) you do get an explanation (much) later on it really doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense. The origin of Benedict's mechanical arm is a good example of this.

3) The protagonist is conveniently dumb and uninquisitive. Every character in the book is a master schemer and conniver; they will read 50 different motivations into their rivals smallest actions and examine all the possibilities. The protagonist is one of the best at playing these games but he doesn't notice extremely odd behavior from certain characters simply because the story won't work if he stays in character. He knows or suspects that 2 or 3 characters who are presumed dead and who could be of great help to him are actually alive or at least could be and yet he doesn't do anything about it for some half-assed reason.

Another example would be the protagonist hiding an all-powerful magical gem in a compost heap in the back yard of his suburban home on Earth. Oh, and he also tells his lawyer buddy to put the home up for sale. And then he just forgets about it until he finds out someone is going to steal it and then has to frantically go in search of it.

4) Major plot line forgotten. The whole point of the second book was getting weapons that can function in Amber. After the battle at the end of that book those weapons are forgotten about it seems. Which is kind of a big deal because they would seem to eliminate the mortal threat posed by the bad guys in books 3,4, and 5.

5) Convoluted schemes. Hey, the book is about immortal master planners and backstabbers so I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt. The problem is that Oberon's scheme doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense.

6) "On second thought, King Torturekill is a decent chap." Too many characters who seem to be villains turn out to be otherwise. Almost every family member goes through this transformation. Often times this happens in one of those "Actually, this is what really happened" scenes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't (Dara) but in either case it is overused.


All of this stuff together makes the story feel like a giant ever evolving retcon. Maybe it was all planned out in the beginning, but the constant explanations of past events, implausible character motivations and overly convoluted schemes make me think of someone hammering the wrong pieces into a jigsaw puzzle.


I read the first few chapters of book five, The Courts of Chaos, but I'm not going to finish it.


.................................




Next up was The Dark Land by C.L. Moore. This is yet another story in which Jirel of Joiry is swept into a medical land. This is the fourth of the five Jirel stories that I've read that had this same basic plot.




More Robert E. Howard:


The Lion of Tiberias (Historical fiction)
The Grey God Passes
Delcardes' Cat
The Mirrors of Tuzun Thune


The Hour of the Dragon

This is a book length Conan tale. It isn't bad, but it isn't one of the best Conan stories either. It was written as a serial and it is very episodic. The opening chapter is very good; there is a nice battle scene and the introduction of the story's primary antagonist is very well done. Unfortunately, the rest of the story's episodes fail to live up to this one. What follows is a series of decent, but unmemorable, adventurous vignettes.

[Bowser]

I'm going to have to put this thread on ignore for fear I'll buy two dozen books and never have the time to finish them, lol.

[lawrenceRaider]

Originally Posted by Bowser

I'm going to have to put this thread on ignore for fear I'll buy two dozen books and never have the time to finish them, lol.

Absolutely nothing wrong with a pile of books waiting to be read.

[Mennonite]

I liked it. I'd probably have loved it if I had read it in my teens. I'm probably going to read some more stuff by this author.


Next: Conan vs. Thicc Medusa!




This is a collection of somewhat obscure sword and sorcery tales.



Next:

Quest of the Starstone

This is the last Jirel of Joiry story that I hadn't previously read. It's a combo of Sword and Sorcery and Sword and Science featuring another of C.L. Moore's characters Northwest Smith. These stories just aren't very good.


Hyperpilosity by L. Sprague de Camp. A retro-Hugo nominee. It's a humor piece that is short on laughs.

[Mennonite]

The Sword of Rhiannon by Leigh Brackett



Pretty good sword and science story. I also picked up The Best of Leigh Brackett, but I haven't started it yet.




Starship Troopers. The book starts with an exciting action scene, but after that the book bogs down. The entire first half of the story is devoted to recounting the protagonist's experiences in bootcamp. It's a sci-fi story about soldiers who are being trained to fight various aliens in outer space, but there isn't a lot of sci-fi content. With a few tweaks it would be indistinguishable from an ordinary real world army story. I also really wish there had been more space devoted to wordbuilding. You get hints about what Earth society is like but that's all. You don't have to go down to the microscopic level, but I don't think I really got the "feel" of what future Earth was really like.

Maybe I just don't get (grok?) Heinlein. This is the fourth of his books that i've read, but I haven't really enjoyed any of them.



The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers. I'm not really enjoying it so I'm probably not going to finish it.



Conan and the Emerald Lotus by John C. Hocking. Novel length Conan pastiche. It's not as good as Howard's very best stuff but I liked it more than most of the original Conan tales. Hocking may not throw as many touchdowns as Howard, but he doesn't throw near as many ridiculous INTs either. Definitely worth a read if you are a fan of the Cimmerian.


Conan: The Road of Kings by Karl Edward Wagner


It's not bad, but it's missing something. It's just not as exciting as it should be. Kind of forgettable, honestly.



Conan the Valorous by John Maddox Roberts

Positives: We get to learn a bit about Cimmerian culture and there are a lot of Lovercraft type monsters.

Negatives:

1) There is a side plot that has no bearing on the rest of the story. It wouldn't be a big deal except for the fact that it takes up 25% of the book! It feels like a novellette that has been inserted into the main story to pad out the length. It really interrupts the flow of the main plot. It would have been better to have kept the two stories separate, imo. Have the first 3/4 of the book be the main story and then have a "bonus" Conan tale after the main adventure.

2) The ending wraps up too fast. The story was building up to an epic battle featuring multiple evil wizards, Cthulhu-esque monsters, Viking mercenaries, and the entire Cimmerian nation - and it all gets wrapped up in a single chapter.


Overall it's not a bad book. I'd rank it higher then The Road of Kings but not as high as The Emerald Lotus. Chapters 4 and 5 are completely skippable.
....................................

I've read all of the Robert E. Howard material I'm going to for now so I'll mention some of my favorites.

Favorite story overall:

Worms of the Earth (Bran Mak Morn)


Top 4 Howard penned Conan stories:

The Scarlet Citadel
The People of the Black Circle
The Tower of the Elephant
Beyond the Black River

Favorite Lesser Known S & S Story:

The House Of Arabu

Favorite Horror Story:

The Black Stone

I haven't read a ton of his horror stories so he may have better stuff out there.



..............

[lawrenceRaider]

Peak Heilein is The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Starship Troopers is OK, and Stranger in a Strange Land. No others I read of his can I recommend. I read several hoping for another as good as Moon. It was the first one of his I read.

[lawrenceRaider]

Where are you finding some of these old Conan books?

Have you read any of Michael Moorcock?

[Mennonite]

Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider

Have you read any of Michael Moorcock?

Only a few Elric short stories. They were ok. Honestly, outside of LOTR. I'm not a big fantasy reader. After having a run of bad luck finding new things to read I just jumped into these Fantasy books as a change of pace. I had just failed a (fourth!) attempt to make it past the fifth chapter of Daphne du Maurier's "Rebecca" when I decided I needed to go in a totally opposite direction. What better way than with Conan the barbarian? Additionally, my local bookstore owner is a huge fan of the fantasy genre and I never like to leave his store empty handed so I let him pick out a few books for me.

Edited to add:

It's important to note two things:

1) I hate 99% of the things I read and watch

2) I have terrible taste, so you should feel pride in liking things that I say suck






Next:

Knights of Dark Renown by David Gemmel






It's ok. Fantasy fans seem to love it as nearly every review is glowing. It's not bad but there are some issues with it. While the first Gemmel book I read "Legend" may have overly melodramatic at times it was hard not to get swept up in the story. I was never bored while reading Knights but it never really grabbed me. I think the biggest issue is the number of characters involved in the story; I didn't dislike any of them (in fact nearly every character in the book had the potential to be very interesting) but there were so many of them that none of them had enough of the spotlight for me to get attached to them. I think it would have helped to have one or two central characters and maybe to have merged some of the characters that filled similar roles.

I think the "too many characters" problem contributes to the second problem I had: the pacing is a little off. Many of the characters evolve very quickly. Too quickly in some cases. The story's climax feels a little bit rushed, but I think part of that is that a lot of the dramatic moments are undercut by the fact that I wasn't emotionally connected to the characters. The one page epilog was also a misstep, imo.

Having said all that, it's still a decent book. Fantasy fans should enjoy it. I just think it would have worked better as a duology as there just wasn't enough time to flesh out all of the (potentially) interesting characters.



Now:



If you aren't familiar with Conan or Dashiell Hammett this is a fairly entertaining book. The plot(s) are blatant ripoffs of The Maltese Falcon and Red Harvest. Maybe you can chalk it up as some sort of homage, but I'm not sure that is an acceptable excuse.

[Fishpicker]

Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider

Where are you finding some of these old Conan books?

the Conan stories have been compiled and published over and over again. But the short story collections were always edited and re-worked by L. Sprague De Camp. He butchered those REH short stories. he removed whole sections out of a few of the stories. LSD also wrote some pastiches on Conan. those are underwhelming.

LSD passed in 2000. in 2003 the original REH stories on Conan and Kull were compiled/published in their original form. these had not been available since the 30's unless you owned the pulp fiction magazines.



https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Conan-...0634437&sr=8-3





the same publisher used to put out all those cheap paperbacks


I have most of these books too but I like them for the Frazetta paintings on the cover. the stories aren't that great. I never felt compelled to finish them.i recommend the newer books over the old ones, from that publisher (Del Ray) at least.

my first exposure to Conan was the comic/magazine called The Savage Sword of Conan. they were first published by Marvel Comics but they were magazines for adults. they were taller and wider than marvel comics and they don't adhere to the Comics Code Authority which forbade blood, gore and T'n'A. Darkhorse comics started publishing those as whole volumes in the early 2000s.


these are really great value for the modest cost. even if you pay full retail price of $20 per volume, you get 500 to 600 pages of content from Marvels best editor and artists. individual issues of this magazine cost $2 each back in the early 80's. so... the phone book sized volumes are a better price even before you consider 25-40 years worth of inflation.


there was a movie made about Robert E Howard BITD. it looks really bad. comical

[Fishpicker]

anyone ever read these?

this series has very high reviews. it makes me wonder if the ratings on Amazon have been astroturfed

[ThaVirus]

Originally Posted by Mennonite

Next: Conan vs. Thicc Medusa!

Damn, Medusa thick af!