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Old 03-28-2024, 08:39 AM  
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VARSITY
***Official 2024 STL Cardinals Thread ***
I'll update the rosters and opening day lineup when its officially released.

2024 Opening Day roster.
Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:25 PM   #811
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Winn deserves it.
No. Winn was certainly good, but Tovar deserves it.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:28 PM   #812
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A guy I feel bad for in this is Siani. It ain't his fault he can't hit and we don't have anyone better. But as defender, he looked like a damn strong contender for that GG most of the season. That injury is going to be what knocked him out otherwise I'm hard pressed to think of anyone that had a better year defensively in CF than Siani.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:31 PM   #813
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No. Winn was certainly good, but Tovar deserves it.
It's like choosing between Skenes and Merrill for NL Rookie of the Year. Both great. I have no problem with Tovar winning.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:32 PM   #814
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No. Winn was certainly good, but Tovar deserves it.
Tovar might get it because he's among the top guys regardless of metric.

Some metrics like Winn the most. Some like Swanson. Most all of them seem to have Tovar in the top 3 though (whereas some metrics thing Winn is not even average, let alone elite).

I can't honestly claim to care a great deal wither way.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:33 PM   #815
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A guy I feel bad for in this is Siani. It ain't his fault he can't hit and we don't have anyone better. But as defender, he looked like a damn strong contender for that GG most of the season. That injury is going to be what knocked him out otherwise I'm hard pressed to think of anyone that had a better year defensively in CF than Siani.
For what it's worth, Ben Clemens voted Siani ninth in CF on his Fielding Bible ballot he posted on Fangraphs.

The Rockies' Brenton Doyle is considered the favorite to win, but many feel the Nationals' Jacob Young was better than him.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:34 PM   #816
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It's like choosing between Skenes and Merrill for NL Rookie of the Year. Both great. I have no problem with Tovar winning.
I just dont really see how anyone but Tovar gets it. The only thing that might swing it is name recognition, which lets be honest, is too much of a factor in this shit and then Swanson would get it.

Tovar had the greatest range of the 3 candidates. 4 less DRS than Winn but 3 more than Swanson. 12 more OAA than Winn but 3 less than Swanson. Just overall, Tovar is just the most deserving imo. If you total up DRS+OAA then Swanson and Tovar sit at 25 and Winn sits at 17. In a way, Winn is the least deserving.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:35 PM   #817
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It's like choosing between Skenes and Merrill for NL Rookie of the Year. Both great. I have no problem with Tovar winning.
I'll always lean towards the position player in the event of a tie.

But man, I'm not sure this was a tie. Skenes was amazing.

I do have a hard time giving the ROY to a guy that only pitched about 130 innings but there's precedent for that sort of thing.

Will recency bias be enough? Because Merrill was pretty ordinary for the first half of the season but he was very probably the Padres best player in the 2nd half when they really found their footing.
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Old 11-03-2024, 12:36 PM   #818
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For what it's worth, Ben Clemens voted Siani ninth in CF on his Fielding Bible ballot he posted on Fangraphs.

The Rockies' Brenton Doyle is considered the favorite to win, but many feel the Nationals' Jacob Young was better than him.
Didn't realize Doyle was a favorite. I assumed it was Young's to lose.
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Old 11-03-2024, 01:06 PM   #819
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Winn is 3rd tbh
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Old 11-03-2024, 01:34 PM   #820
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I just dont really see how anyone but Tovar gets it. The only thing that might swing it is name recognition, which lets be honest, is too much of a factor in this shit and then Swanson would get it.

Tovar had the greatest range of the 3 candidates. 4 less DRS than Winn but 3 more than Swanson. 12 more OAA than Winn but 3 less than Swanson. Just overall, Tovar is just the most deserving imo. If you total up DRS+OAA then Swanson and Tovar sit at 25 and Winn sits at 17. In a way, Winn is the least deserving.
You make great points and don't disagree with you but Winn did win the Fielding Bible Award and by a sizeable margin. Here's the voting.

Wexelman is obviously biased being a Cards fan. I was shock to see that Eno Sarris only had Tovar at 7.

https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/...-voting-tally/
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Old 11-03-2024, 01:36 PM   #821
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Didn't realize Doyle was a favorite. I assumed it was Young's to lose.
Doyle is the incumbent and is the only centerfielder to lead baseball in putouts in consecutive years since Andruw Jones did it in 1998-01.
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Old 11-03-2024, 01:50 PM   #822
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You make great points and don't disagree with you but Winn did win the Fielding Bible Award and by a sizeable margin. Here's the voting.

Wexelman is obviously biased being a Cards fan. I was shock to see that Eno Sarris only had Tovar at 7.

https://www.sportsinfosolutions.com/...-voting-tally/
That's great and all, but I really dont care about GG awards. It's just as much a popularity contest as the AS game. The term used was "deserving." By statistical measure, Winn trails both Tovar and Swanson in overall performance.
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Old 11-03-2024, 06:20 PM   #823
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That's great and all, but I really dont care about GG awards. It's just as much a popularity contest as the AS game. The term used was "deserving." By statistical measure, Winn trails both Tovar and Swanson in overall performance.
Not if you go by defensive runs saved. I wouldn't have a problem with Winn, Tovar, Swanson or Francisco Lindor winning this award at a competitive position with elite athletes.
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Old 11-04-2024, 12:00 AM   #824
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Winn had a higher SABR defensive index than Tovar.

https://sabr.org/sdi/2024-final
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Old 11-04-2024, 12:03 AM   #825
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