Broncos news megathread

[ROYC75]

Discussion: All things Broncos.

[New World Order]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Longevity stats.. that’s funny. Nobody brings up longevity until the conversation around Terrell Davis and the HOF comes up.

The revisionist history around here regarding Elway is interesting.

I mean, he had a horrible rating. His td/int ratio isn’t good. It’s not close to Montana’s. When he won the SB he had an elite ground game.

You act like he was putting up massive numbers while going to these sbs. He basically was Trent Dilfer before 94.

Incredibly overrated

[St. Patty's Fire]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

I’m only adding these stats and if there are other more compelling stats to consider, let me know.

All Time NFL Ranks for QB

NFL Wins - #1 at retirement and currently #7
Playoff Wins - #2 at retirement and currently #6
Passing Yards - #2 at retirement and currently #14
Passing TDs - #3 at retirement and currently #14

The game changes all the time and he finished Top 3 in those four major categories. In the 25 years since he Elway retired, the rules have become very friendly to the passing game and how defenses play, but his body of work holds well.

Slice up history however you like, I’m at peace where I believe he ranks.

reading this post made me curious about all time QB playoff wins and seeing Mahomes at 3 shellshocked me. I feel like they mentioned that at the end of the Suber Bowl but i guess it never sank in. That shit is crazy. 15-3 record at his age is just bonkers. At 29 Brady had 12 wins and 2 losses.

[St. Patty's Fire]

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch

Probably the latter.

Yeah the effort of embedding PFR stats into posts makes me think that too

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Longevity stats.. that’s funny. Nobody brings up longevity until the conversation around Terrell Davis and the HOF comes up.

The revisionist history around here regarding Elway is interesting.

By your logic, a mediocre player can become an all-time great just by having a long career (Not saying Elway was mediocre).

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

By your logic, a mediocre player can become an all-time great just by having a long career (Not saying Elway was mediocre).

No, not my logic at all.

[St. Patty's Fire]

i wouldnt call elway mediocre but he definitely leans towards more of a compiler than a guy like Montana or Bradshaw. i look at his career kinda like a rich mans eli manning or philip rivers.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

By your logic, a mediocre player can become an all-time great just by having a long career (Not saying Elway was mediocre).

Not true… you can look at guys like Rivers, Ryan and a few others and say great stats, long careers, but nobody is putting them among the best.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire

i wouldnt call elway mediocre but he definitely leans towards more of a compiler than a guy like Montana or Bradshaw. i look at his career kinda like a rich mans eli manning or philip rivers.

Montana and Bradshaw were great, but they also had much better skill players on offense around them for their careers. That is fact.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Not true… you can look at guys like Rivers, Ryan and a few others and say great stats, long careers, but nobody is putting them among the best.

You're proving my point. No one ranks Rivers among the best, yet he's right behind Elway in all-time wins. Win % is obviously a much more meaningful stat.

Now look at career TDs. Matt Ryan, Rivers, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson all have more career TD passes than Elway. Some of them far more. Carson Palmer's just behind him. Cousins, Vinny Testaverde, Dave Krieg, Derek Carr, Joe Flacco are all top 25.

It's not unreasonable to say that those particular numbers don't tell us that much. Lol.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

You're proving my point. No one ranks Rivers among the best, yet he's right behind Elway in all-time wins. Win % is obviously a much more meaningful stat.

Now look at career TDs. Matt Ryan, Rivers, Eli Manning, and Russell Wilson all have more career TD passes than Elway. Some of them far more. Carson Palmer's just behind him. Cousins, Vinny Testaverde, Dave Krieg, Derek Carr, Joe Flacco are all top 25.

It's not unreasonable to say that those particular numbers don't tell us that much. Lol.

There are many different pieces to the puzzle. The last 20+ years have skewed stats. You have stats and the eye test. Everyone has an opinion

[brdempsey69]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Denver lost that game in 96 because Michael Dean Perry couldn’t get his fat ass off the field quick enough late in the game.

No, the Donks lost because the Jags outplayed the Donks -- especially in the 2nd and 3rd QTR's when they shut out the Donks in both those QTR's.

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Longevity stats.. that’s funny. Nobody brings up longevity until the conversation around Terrell Davis and the HOF comes up.

The revisionist history around here regarding Elway is interesting.

Rubbish -- Elway's history hasn't been revised, it's just simply that Donktard mythology regarding Elway has been obliterated by facts and evidence about him that have been posted here.

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Montana and Bradshaw were great, but they also had much better skill players on offense around them for their careers. That is fact.

Totally FALSE. Elway did have good skill players around him when he got to his 3 SB's in the '80's. Elway simply didn't do a consistently good job of throwing the football to them. WR Mark Jackson went to the Giants in '93 and with Phil Simms throwing the ball to him and with Dan Reeves as the Giants coach, Jackson had a career-high 53 catches.

Joe Montana's entire 49ers team in 1981 was not star-studded and not leaps & bounds ahead of any of those '80's Donks teams that made it to the SB. Many would argue they were on par with one another or even that those Donks teams were better minus the QB. The most glaring difference was the 49ers had a QB that was big-money on the big stage (Montana), while the Donks had a QB that played like a girl on the big stage (Elway).

What was that you were saying about "history revision"?

[crayzkirk]

Frankly, I'm impressed at how well the broncos D has been playing. The O has been playing mistake free as well. As someone who has been around since before the Elway years, my impression about his career is that he should have a sidebar that says: with special thanks to Marty, whom without I could never have had all those comebacks. Thanks for the cowardly play in the 4th quarter.

That's just a personal observation... since I wasn't a bronco fan, I didn't really follow them when they weren't playing the Chiefs so I didn't care. I've wondered how many of those late game heroics were against the Chiefs.

At this point, I just don't have the energy to spend thinking about who/what/where/why/when some team cheated. The record book doesn't say anything about it and like it or not, cheaters actually do prosper; that's why they cheat. DUH.

[rfaulk34]

Did this for the current guys. Might as well do it for the old farts too.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

You said you weren't measuring solely by playoff wins, yet that's exactly what you're doing.

“What?!”

I never said that, and I’m NOT measuring solely by playoff wins. However, there IS a correct answer to the question “What is the object of the game?” And that correct answer is “To Win.”

Accordingly, WINS - if proportional to the STATS being compared with – should carry greater weight. It’s another example of the classic dichotomy “Content vs Form,” yielding the same result as always, ”WHAT you do matters more than HOW you do it.”

Originally Posted by RaidersCellar

If their stats and individual accomplishments were similar, then having one more Lombardi could be a tiebreaker. But they're not close. Postseason stats aren't close either. Pretty disingenuous stuff.

“Disingenuous?!”

What?!?!

I STATED, CLEAR AS A BELL: “Rodgers has significantly better stats and four MVP awards.” I factored Rodgers’ big stats/awards advantage into my assessment.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Individual awards and stats

RODGERS: 4 NFL MVPs, SB MVP, 4 All-Pro, 10 Pro Bowls and league leaders
ELWAY: NFL MVP, SB MVP, 1 All-Pro, 9 Pro-Bowls. The day he retired, Elway had won more games, and started more Super Bowls (5) than any QB ever

Further, Rodger's individual statistics like completion % and TD passes are all point for point - better than Elway’s, often by wide margins. RELEVANT EXAMPLE: Jolly Rodgers’ career QBRating is 102.9, Elway’s 79.9.


Team victories and accomplishments

JOHN ELWAY wishes to point out that ^^^^^^ Rodgers’ individual awards and stats above appear to have done very little to win games for his team, because ..…

THIS WEEK – Nov 18-25, 2024 – Elway and Rodgers have basically IDENTICAL career W-L records:

.. . . . . .. .. .W .. L . T
J.Elway ..162 .89 .1
Rodgers .162 .93 .1

RODGERS: 11-10 playoff record, with 6 ‘one-and-dones’ in 11 playoff seasons; 1-4 W-L in NFCCGs and 1 Super Bowl…
ELWAY: 14-7 playoff record, with 4 ‘one-and-dones’ in 10 playoff seasons; 5-2 W-L in AFCCGs and 5 Super Bowls, 2 wins.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





MY OPINION/CONCLUSION IS:

American football is a TEAM sport. Individual stats and honors can be exciting examples of a players’ greatness, and there were many such examples in Aaron Rodgers time with the Packers. But, as stated, when you're on the field, the goal must only be to win games, not rack up statistics.

For the Packers, having been led for 17 years by as uniquely talented a quarterback as Aaron Rodgers, there were too few memorable victories, and not enough landmark moments to remember for the Green Bay Packers and their fans.


It should be known that this was a mild expression of the frustration the Packers fan-base has endured. Other fans, when expressing this kind of frustration, or ranking players this way, will unabashedly label certain players and even teams “CHOKE-ARTISTS.”

And the list is a long one: Tony Romo, Philip Rivers, the Buffalo Bills, Minnesota Vikings, even Peyton Manning, Fran Tarkenton, The Detroit Lions, the Cleveland Browns, even Aaron Rodgers

So Aaron Rodgers, replete with the awards and statistics spoken of, you should understand it could have been worse.

.
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[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire

reading this post made me curious about all time QB playoff wins and seeing Mahomes at 3 shellshocked me. I feel like they mentioned that at the end of the Suber Bowl but i guess it never sank in. That shit is crazy. 15-3 record at his age is just bonkers. At 29 Brady had 12 wins and 2 losses.

Is Mahomes career playoff record really 15-3 ?

Has Mahomes hosted an AFCCG all 6 yrs ?



Holy Messiah, Batman ... it's true

His playoff record is 15-3, and he's HOSTED Ch'ship Game all 6 years he's played .......

Geez I hate to to this in here in front of the Hateful 8, but I gotta get this kid jumping again - over Montana into #2. Should have done it 9 months ago when I jumped him over Manning.