Passenger flight from Wichita collides with military helicopter in D.C.

[DaFace]

Well, this is awful.

Reports: Inbound plane from Wichita collides with helicopter near Washington, D.C. airporthttps://t.co/4dpNJb8rqT #kwch12

— KWCH 12 News (@KWCH12) January 30, 2025

Up to around 70 people were involved between the two aircraft.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by R Clark

Damn talk about a head on

I understand a passenger jet can’t maneuver like the Blackhawk. But, it looks from this video that the Blackhawk never attempted to avoid the aircraft. Even at the last minute.

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I understand a passenger jet can’t maneuver like the Blackhawk. But, it looks from this video that the Blackhawk never attempted to avoid the aircraft. Even at the last minute.

The voice transponders have been collected. It'll be interesting to find out what sort of info they unearth from that.

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by seamonster

After watching that video I don't want to here shit about understaffed air traffic controller's...That was one of the worst ****ing video's I've ever seen in my life. How do you not see a commercial jet, lit up like a football stadium, barreling down at your position?

Yeah, those lights are bright to look at miles out, much less a thousand feet or less.

[WilliamTheIrish]

Statement from the Sec Def said they were wearing NVG’s.

Damn.

[New World Order]

Almost looks like the helicopter pilot did it intentionally…

[suzzer99]

Here's the link on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/vi...deo-ldn-digvid

Why was someone filming that?

[ChiTown]

Originally Posted by suzzer99

Here's the link on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/31/us/vi...deo-ldn-digvid

Why was someone filming that?

I used to wonder about these things myself, but then I quickly realized that people are constantly videoing the most inane things all day, everyday. So, this doesn't really surprise me that someone caught this on video.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by seamonster

After watching that video I don't want to here shit about understaffed air traffic controller's...That was one of the worst ****ing video's I've ever seen in my life. How do you not see a commercial jet, lit up like a football stadium, barreling down at your position?

Things happen fast when it's two vehicles moving at 150+ mph, in the dark, with lots of other lights around and massive blind spots, all while trying to listen in and follow instructions on crowded radio channels.

[Radar Chief]

Originally Posted by notorious

Military aircraft avionics are complete shit compared to most civilian aircraft.

I was hanging out in the Amarillo FBO some F-16s pulled up and parked.

I don't ever pass up the chance to talk to the baddest ass mother ****ers on the planet so we chatted about stuff. I was flying a low tail Piper Lance (a very nice one) and they asked me about it. Had dual Garmin 430's in it which was sensational back in 2002. I took them out to show them and they were blown away at how nice the dash was. One guy said he would kill to have one moving map GPS in his plane. They had a light indicator that verified via GPS receiver that LORAN was accurate.

That blew me away. 25 million dollar airplane. I hope things have changed.

Military Technology generally lags civilian technology by several years.
For example, when I joined the Army in '88 the HAWK system I would work on was still using vacuum tubes in the PAR, or Pulsing Acquisition Radar.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by seamonster

After watching that video I don't want to here shit about understaffed air traffic controller's...That was one of the worst ****ing video's I've ever seen in my life. How do you not see a commercial jet, lit up like a football stadium, barreling down at your position?

Happens all the time. especially in the dark. And how well lit up the aircraft is dependent on the angle at which you're viewing it (head-on and you're looking into a giant landing light, but from the side or behind it's just recog/nav/logo lights). And the CRJ was necessarily moving at 200+, while the helo was moving at some fraction of that. Depending on the actual angle of intercept, altitude difference, etc. there may not have been a lot of angular change/movement across the field of view, which would make spotting each other more difficult.

Bottom line, it's almost impossible to really understand the spatial relationships between these aircraft from just the video. We need the radar tape at the very least. Another video from a different angle would also be helpful.

[SAGA45]

Originally Posted by Radar Chief

Military Technology generally lags civilian technology by several years.

That's wild! I always thought it was the opposite. I guess that's just in the movies.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

I understand a passenger jet can’t maneuver like the Blackhawk. But, it looks from this video that the Blackhawk never attempted to avoid the aircraft. Even at the last minute.

From what I heard on a podcast this morning from someone who talked with several experienced ATC's -

The Blackhawk never saw the plane as it was above them at the time. You cant look up in a Blackhawk helicopter as you cant see through the roof.

It also appears the ATC asked if they could see the plane, well the only plane the Blackhawk could have seen was the one taking off not the one above them. When the Blackhawk said yes they could see the plane the ATC should have known they were seeing the wrong plane as they cant physically see one that is above them.

The ATC is almost certainly at fault here. Should have told the Blackhawk to drop to 1500ft.

Also there is supposed to be an ATC handling Helicopters and another handling fixed wing but the same guy was doing both.

[Pennywise]

How is it possible the Blackhawk pilots did not see the AA jet.pic.twitter.com/EAe4Q0j2y9

— Citizen Free Press (@CitizenFreePres) January 31, 2025

That barrel roll is absolutely brutal. I also heard on the radio earlier it was relatively easy to recover most of the passengers because they were still strapped in their seatbelts.

[Smed1065]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

From what I heard on a podcast this morning from someone who talked with several experienced ATC's -

The Blackhawk never saw the plane as it was above them at the time. You cant look up in a Blackhawk helicopter as you cant see through the roof.

It also appears the ATC asked if they could see the plane, well the only plane the Blackhawk could have seen was the one taking off not the one above them. When the Blackhawk said yes they could see the plane the ATC should have known they were seeing the wrong plane as they cant physically see one that is above them.

The ATC is almost certainly at fault here. Should have told the Blackhawk to drop to 1500ft.

Also there is supposed to be an ATC handling Helicopters and another handling fixed wing but the same guy was doing both.

The rules must have changed because hen I was ATC we even did planes, copters and even Drones but I was military so might be the difference.That and been a long time.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

From what I heard on a podcast this morning from someone who talked with several experienced ATC's -

The Blackhawk never saw the plane as it was above them at the time. You cant look up in a Blackhawk helicopter as you cant see through the roof.

It also appears the ATC asked if they could see the plane, well the only plane the Blackhawk could have seen was the one taking off not the one above them. When the Blackhawk said yes they could see the plane the ATC should have known they were seeing the wrong plane as they cant physically see one that is above them.

The ATC is almost certainly at fault here. Should have told the Blackhawk to drop to 1500ft.

Also there is supposed to be an ATC handling Helicopters and another handling fixed wing but the same guy was doing both.

And, likewise, you can't see below a jet very well either, so it's pretty likely that neither aircraft saw the other.

I'd be surprised if there was a true error on the ATC side, as it sounds like the flight rules in the area allow for visual separation. The ATC pointed out the heading of the CRJ, and the Black Hawk pilot confirmed that they had a visual on it. That very probably seems like a miscommunication and mistake on the pilot's part. All that said, I think it's a very valid question if the flight rules in the area should be reconsidered.

All that said, others have alluded to the "swiss cheese" metaphor, and it's very likely that it applies here. Some level of fault lies with:
-BH flying "dark" and, therefore, not visible on CRJ's equipment
-Short-staffed ATC having one person working multiple roles, which isn't unusual but might need to be considered due to the complexity of this airspace
-ATC not understanding that the BH couldn't actually have a visual on the CRJ (assuming that's true)
-Rules that allow helicopters to fly directly into the descent path at all
-Rules that allow for visual separation in the area
-Simple BH pilot error

Time will tell what they conclude in the investigation, but it sure seems like this is iffy enough that they should change how things operate in the area.